Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - NC Airports

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

NC Airports - 110 destinations
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RVSouthEast-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

ronschreck

Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 192
Location: Gold Hill Airpark, NC (NC25)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:10 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

Hi All,



Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it before?  Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it because????  Read on.



There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina, according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would like to visit all 110 of them.  I'm sure many people have done that but how many have done it in one day?  Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is 4.58 airports per hour.  I doubt you could do a full stop landing at each one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?



I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point, but it keeps rattling around in there.  I keep stumbling on one problem and that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports.  If I entered the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that could give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them all?  I could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start connecting the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant.  Anybody know of such a program?  And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever been tried or done before?



I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......



I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.



Ron "Smokey" Schreck

RV-8, "Miss Izzy"

Gold Hill Airpark, NC

jclarkmail(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:18 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.



People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so called "travelling salesman" problem.



I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.  



James

On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net (ronschreck(at)windstream.net)> wrote:[quote] --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net (ronschreck(at)windstream.net)>



Hi All,



Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it before?  Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it because????  Read on. 



There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina, according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would like to visit all 110 of them.  I'm sure many people have done that but how many have done it in one day?  Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is  4.58 airports per hour.  I doubt you could do a full stop landing at each one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?



I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point, but it keeps rattling around in there.  I keep stumbling on one problem and that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports.  If I entered the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that could give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them all?  I could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start connecting the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant.  Anybody know of such a program?  And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever been tried or done before? 



I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......



I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.



Ron "Smokey" Schreck james(at)nextupventures.com (james(at)nextupventures.com) .

  [quote][b]

vitez(at)carolina.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:26 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

I've thought of something like that.. 



I think it has been done in other states.. forgot which one it was.



Anyways, put "Traveling Salesman Problem" in Google and see if you find the

right software... that'll solve the main problem -- how to visit each place

once, and only once while minimizing time/gas/money spent on the trip.



Good luck!



--

billsettle(at)bellsouth.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

I tried to do just 16 airports in 4 hours in my Luscombe one time.  Tough to do, didn't quite make it.  Let us know if you try.



Bill Settle

-8 Wings.



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 From: Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net>

 Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 07:10:05 EST

 To: <rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com>

 Subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

 

 

 

 Hi All,

 

 Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it before?  Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it because????  Read on.

 

 There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina, according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would like to visit all 110 of them.  I'm sure many people have done that but how many have done it in one day?  Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is 4.58 airports per hour.  I doubt you could do a full stop landing at each one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?

 

 I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point, but it keeps rattling around in there.  I keep stumbling on one problem and that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports.  If I entered the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that could give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them all?  I could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start connecting the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant.  Anybody know of such a program?  And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever been tried or done before?

 

 I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......

 

 I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.

 

 Ron "Smokey" Schreck

 RV-8, "Miss Izzy"

 Gold Hill Airpark, NC

paulf(at)ncsu.edu
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

in math, this is referred to as the 'traveling salesman' problem.  A google search should turn up some sample codes.  Wikipedia most likely has a good entry with sample  codes.



This might qualify as an FAI record if you do it and document it right.



Paul Franzon

919 515 7351



--

jclarkmail(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:50 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

And a  special case of "traveling salesman" is the Hamiltonian Cycle (or Path) Problem ... Start at point "a", traverse all once and end up at "a" using shortest path (or least resources).

 

VERY difficult to solve as the number of points go up.



My guess is that more hours will be spent trying to solve for "the best" route than it would take to fly **A** route.  



James

 On 6/17/07, Paul D. Franzon <paulf(at)ncsu.edu (paulf(at)ncsu.edu)> wrote:[quote] --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Paul D. Franzon" <paulf(at)ncsu.edu (paulf(at)ncsu.edu)>



in math, this is referred to as the 'traveling salesman' problem.  A google search should turn up some sample codes.  Wikipedia most likely has a good entry with sample  codes. 



This might qualify as an FAI record if you do it and document it right.



Paul Franzon

919 515 7351



--

flyguy

Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 325

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:10 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

Ron, As you know, I've been in sales/service in NC for

40 yrs...I started tracking airports sometime back and

have now covered 79 in NC and nearly 300 world-wide

counting this last trip.  Why not set up a plan to

visit all over some realistic time period including

full stops? Your log book would make for interesting

reading. You would surely be in a small but growing

club just by logging them all...BTW, at least 3 of my

NC airports are now closed...Reno.

--- Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <ronschreck(at)windstream.net>

 

 Hi All,

 

 Ever have the urge to do something just because

 nobody has done it before?  Doesn't have to be

 something profitable or even fun, just do it

 because????  Read on.

 

 There are 110 public airports in the great state of

 North Carolina, according to my NCDOT, Division of

 Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would like to

 visit all 110 of them.  I'm sure many people have

 done that but how many have done it in one day? 

 Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is 4.58

 airports per hour.  I doubt you could do a full stop

 landing at each one, but a touch-and-go is feasable,

 isn't it?

 

 I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my

 mind at this point, but it keeps rattling around in

 there.  I keep stumbling on one problem and that is

 how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. 

 If I entered the coordinates of all 110 into a

 database is there a program that could give me a

 flight plan that would minimize the distance between

 them all?  I could just spread the map out on the

 dining room table and start connecting the dots, but

 that doesn't seem too elegant.  Anybody know of such

 a program?  And while we are at it, does anybody

 know if this has ever been tried or done before?

 

 I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do

 the math, see if it is possible and then, who knows,

 when the weather is right......

 

 I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.

 

 Ron "Smokey" Schreck

 RV-8, "Miss Izzy"

 Gold Hill Airpark, NC

 

 



 browse

 Subscriptions page,

 FAQ,

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List



 Web Forums!



 

 

 

 


	


Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7

ronschreck

Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 192
Location: Gold Hill Airpark, NC (NC25)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:22 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

What's the "traveling salesman problem"?  Does this have something to do with the farmer's daughter?  Tell me more.



Smokey

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com>

 Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT

 To: rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations

 

 I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.

 

 People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so called

 "travelling salesman" problem.

 

 I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.

 

 James

 

 

 On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net> wrote:

 >

 > 

 > ronschreck(at)windstream.net>

 >

 > Hi All,

 >

 > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it

 > before?  Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it

 > because????  Read on.

 >

 > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,

 > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would

 > like to visit all 110 of them.  I'm sure many people have done that but how

 > many have done it in one day?  Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is

 > 4.58 airports per hour.  I doubt you could do a full stop landing at each

 > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?

 >

 > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point,

 > but it keeps rattling around in there.  I keep stumbling on one problem and

 > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports.  If I entered

 > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that could

 > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them all?  I

 > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start connecting

 > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant.  Anybody know of such a

 > program?  And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever been

 > tried or done before?

 >

 > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it

 > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......

 >

 > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.

 >

 > Ron "Smokey" Schreck

 > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"

 > Gold Hill Airpark, NC

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 

 

 -- 

 This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at

 james(at)nextupventures.com .

bill(at)repucci.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:25 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

Bill,



Back in '95 when Celanese transferred me to Charlotte Metrolina Expo was

still listed on the sectionals as an airport but it was closed and had

been closed for some time, as near as I can tell.



When did it actually close?



And a bit of airport trivia.



The Grandfather of one of my employees founded Miller Airpark.  He told

me on Friday that his Grandfather crashed and burned on the field some

time back and is buried there, along with what is left of his plane.



Bill



--

sportav8r(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:33 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

Ooooh, Kathy's gonna smack you for that one!

This record attempt sounds like a lot of night T&G's to me.  No thanks.  But I agree with Reno that just logging all 110 sounds like a nice record to have in your logbook. 

The detour south was fabulous and well worth it.  Never talked to center, never even felt the need to file a flight plan, and only twice the whole way did we see traffic outside of a landing pattern that could have been a factor to us.  I must confess I did talk to Flight Watch quite a bit from Oklahoma home, which would have been unnecessary had i had a 396.  I believe Santa Claus is also convinced that in-flight Wx is a must before the next long x/c; we'll see if she comes through for me. 

I'll be retrieving the plane from KLWB today after church, so I can claim to be officially home as of this afternoon.

Lots of sprucing up to do around here before June 30th.

-Stormy

 On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net (ronschreck(at)windstream.net)> wrote:[quote] --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net (ronschreck(at)windstream.net)>

What's the "traveling salesman problem"?  Does this have something to do with the farmer's daughter?  Tell me more. 

Smokey

 	  Quote: 	

 From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com (jclarkmail(at)gmail.com)>

 Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT

 To:  rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com (rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations

 I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.

 People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so called 

 "travelling salesman" problem.

 I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.

 James

 On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck < ronschreck(at)windstream.net (ronschreck(at)windstream.net)> wrote:

 >

 > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Ron Schreck <

 > ronschreck(at)windstream.net (ronschreck(at)windstream.net)>

 > 

 > Hi All,

 >

 > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it

 > before?  Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it

 > because????  Read on. 

 >

 > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,

 > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would

 > like to visit all 110 of them.  I'm sure many people have done that but how 

 > many have done it in one day?  Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is

 > 4.58 airports per hour.  I doubt you could do a full stop landing at each

 > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it? 

 >

 > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point,

 > but it keeps rattling around in there.  I keep stumbling on one problem and

 > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports.  If I entered 

 > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that could

 > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them all?  I

 > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start connecting 

 > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant.  Anybody know of such a

 > program?  And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever been

 > tried or done before?

 > 

 > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it

 > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......

 >

 > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc. 

 >

 > Ron "Smokey" Schreck

 > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"

 > Gold Hill Airpark, NC

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

[b]

Larry Bowen

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 802
Location: NC, USA

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:34 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

I think VA has a program where they award pilots who have done this...a plaque or something.  I think some on the list were working on it.  Not in a day tho, maybe a year instead....

-- 

Larry Bowen

 Larry(at)BowenAero.com (Larry(at)BowenAero.com)

http://BowenAero.com 



On 6/17/07, James Clark <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com (jclarkmail(at)gmail.com)> wrote:[quote] And a  special case of "traveling salesman" is the Hamiltonian Cycle (or Path) Problem ... Start at point "a", traverse all once and end up at "a" using shortest path (or least resources).

  

VERY difficult to solve as the number of points go up.



My guess is that more hours will be spent trying to solve for "the best" route than it would take to fly **A** route.  



James

  On 6/17/07, Paul D. Franzon <paulf(at)ncsu.edu  (paulf(at)ncsu.edu)> wrote:[quote] --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Paul D. Franzon" <paulf(at)ncsu.edu (paulf(at)ncsu.edu)>



in math, this is referred to as the 'traveling salesman' problem.  A google search should turn up some sample codes.  Wikipedia most likely has a good entry with sample  codes. 



This might qualify as an FAI record if you do it and document it right.



Paul Franzon

919 515 7351



--

_________________
Larry Bowen
RV-8 SOLD,
RV-7QB in progress...

jclarkmail(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:34 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

In Business School it is one of the "tough" problems you learn to solve. Introduces you to linear algebra (as I seem to recall) and stuff. On the EE & CS side, it is linked more to electrical and computer "nodes". The points could be network nodes, airports, customers to visit or anything. The basic idea is to solve for the "least expensive" (shortest, least time, least cost) route to cover all the spots. 

It kinda started back when companies had "traveling salesmen and somebody realized they could be more efficient by taking a particular path as opposed to random ones to cover all of the territory.

For some size/class of problem, there is some "guessing" involved. Actually it is intelligent approximation and estimation.   

James

On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net (ronschreck(at)windstream.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net (ronschreck(at)windstream.net)>

What's the "traveling salesman problem"?  Does this have something to do with the farmer's daughter?  Tell me more. 

Smokey

 	  Quote: 	

 From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com (jclarkmail(at)gmail.com)>

 Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT

 To:  rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com (rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations

 I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.

 People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so called 

 "travelling salesman" problem.

 I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.

 James

 On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck < ronschreck(at)windstream.net (ronschreck(at)windstream.net)> wrote:

 >

 > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Ron Schreck <

 > ronschreck(at)windstream.net (ronschreck(at)windstream.net)>

 > 

 > Hi All,

 >

 > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it

 > before?  Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it

 > because????  Read on. 

 >

 > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,

 > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would

 > like to visit all 110 of them.  I'm sure many people have done that but how 

 > many have done it in one day?  Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is

 > 4.58 airports per hour.  I doubt you could do a full stop landing at each

 > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it? 

 >

 > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point,

 > but it keeps rattling around in there.  I keep stumbling on one problem and

 > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports.  If I entered 

 > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that could

 > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them all?  I

 > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start connecting 

 > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant.  Anybody know of such a

 > program?  And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever been

 > tried or done before?

 > 

 > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it

 > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......

 >

 > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc. 

 >

 > Ron "Smokey" Schreck

 > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"

 > Gold Hill Airpark, NC

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

-- 

This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com (james(at)nextupventures.com) .

  [quote][b]

vitez(at)carolina.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:36 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

http://www.airfields-freeman.com/NC/Airfields_NC_Charlotte.htm#brockenbrough

"Brockenbrough Airport was apparently closed (for reasons unknown) at some

point between 1972-98"





--

Ed Anderson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 475

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes in  the "traveling Salesman" problem  for  the possible permutations  to quickly  become large enough to take an excessive amount of time to  solve on the computers of the day (maybe even the home computers of  today).  

  

 Ed

  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com

ronschreck

Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 192
Location: Gold Hill Airpark, NC (NC25)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:27 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

Stormy,



OK, I have Googled the traveling salesman problem and now know that it has nothing to do with the farmer's daughter.  I have emailed a few mathematicians who have studied the problem and hope they can help me with it.  You are right about the night touch & go's; not a player on unlighted airports.  I am trying to see if the circuit is feasable during civil twilight hours on the longest day of the year.  That may be the safest way to go.



Glad to hear all the Yellerstone gang is finally back home safely.  The Garmin 496 was a tremendous aid.  I have never felt so well informed and free to roam around the country. Hope Snta is good to you.   The trip was wonderful.  Looking forward to the Hop Along Fly-In so we can all re-live the trip together.



Smokey

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>

 Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 09:33:47 EDT

 To: rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations

 

 Ooooh, Kathy's gonna smack you for that one!

 

 This record attempt sounds like a lot of night T&G's to me.  No thanks.  But

 I agree with Reno that just logging all 110 sounds like a nice record to

 have in your logbook.

 

 The detour south was fabulous and well worth it.  Never talked to center,

 never even felt the need to file a flight plan, and only twice the whole way

 did we see traffic outside of a landing pattern that could have been a

 factor to us.  I must confess I did talk to Flight Watch quite a bit from

 Oklahoma home, which would have been unnecessary had i had a 396.  I believe

 Santa Claus is also convinced that in-flight Wx is a must before the next

 long x/c; we'll see if she comes through for me.

 

 I'll be retrieving the plane from KLWB today after church, so I can claim to

 be officially home as of this afternoon.

 

 Lots of sprucing up to do around here before June 30th.

 

 -Stormy

 

 On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net> wrote:

 >

 > 

 > ronschreck(at)windstream.net>

 >

 > What's the "traveling salesman problem"?  Does this have something to do

 > with the farmer's daughter?  Tell me more.

 >

 > Smokey

 > >

 > > From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com>

 > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT

 > > To: rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com

 > > Subject: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations

 > >

 > > I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.

 > >

 > > People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so called

 > > "travelling salesman" problem.

 > >

 > > I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.

 > >

 > > James

 > >

 > >

 > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net> wrote:

 > > >

 > > > 

 > > > ronschreck(at)windstream.net>

 > > >

 > > > Hi All,

 > > >

 > > > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it

 > > > before?  Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do

 > it

 > > > because????  Read on.

 > > >

 > > > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,

 > > > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I

 > would

 > > > like to visit all 110 of them.  I'm sure many people have done that

 > but how

 > > > many have done it in one day?  Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is

 > > > 4.58 airports per hour.  I doubt you could do a full stop landing at

 > each

 > > > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?

 > > >

 > > > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this

 > point,

 > > > but it keeps rattling around in there.  I keep stumbling on one

 > problem and

 > > > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports.  If I

 > entered

 > > > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that

 > could

 > > > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them

 > all?  I

 > > > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start

 > connecting

 > > > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant.  Anybody know of such a

 > > > program?  And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever

 > been

 > > > tried or done before?

 > > >

 > > > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if

 > it

 > > > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......

 > > >

 > > > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.

 > > >

 > > > Ron "Smokey" Schreck

 > > > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"

 > > > Gold Hill Airpark, NC

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > >

 > >

 > > --

 > > This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at

 > > james(at)nextupventures.com .

 > >

 > >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

jclarkmail(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:28 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

That is correct Ed.



Therefore the "estimations" or "guesses" to get an answer that is "roughly right".

For "n" nodes, does the computational volume go up by n**3 or is it n**n!!!!!!!!? 

(Was 30+ years ago when I was thinking this kind of stuff.  )



James

On 6/17/07, Ed Anderson < eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com (eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com)> wrote:[quote]       As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes in  the "traveling Salesman" problem  for  the possible permutations  to quickly  become large enough to take an excessive amount of time to  solve on the computers of the day (maybe even the home computers of  today).  

  

 Ed

  

 [quote]   ---

ronschreck

Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 192
Location: Gold Hill Airpark, NC (NC25)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

Larry,



I'm going to email the NC DOT, Dept of Aviation and see if they have any record of such attempts.  I'll keep you all posted.



Smokey

[quote] 

 From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>

 Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 09:27:28 EDT

 To: rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations

 

 I think VA has a program where they award pilots who have done this...a

 plaque or something.  I think some on the list were working on it.  Not in a

 day tho, maybe a year instead....

 

 -- 

 Larry Bowen

 Larry(at)BowenAero.com

 http://BowenAero.com

 

 On 6/17/07, James Clark <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 >

 > And a  special case of "traveling salesman" is the Hamiltonian Cycle (or

 > Path) Problem ... Start at point "a", traverse all once and end up at "a"

 > using shortest path (or least resources).

 >

 > VERY difficult to solve as the number of points go up.

 >

 > My guess is that more hours will be spent trying to solve for "the best"

 > route than it would take to fly **A** route.  

 >

 > James

 >

 >

 > On 6/17/07, Paul D. Franzon <paulf(at)ncsu.edu> wrote:

 > >

 > > 

 > > paulf(at)ncsu.edu>

 > >

 > > in math, this is referred to as the 'traveling salesman' problem.  A

 > > google search should turn up some sample codes.  Wikipedia most likely has a

 > > good entry with sample  codes.

 > >

 > > This might qualify as an FAI record if you do it and document it right.

 > >

 > > Paul Franzon

 > > 919 515 7351

 > >

 > > --

ronschreck

Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 192
Location: Gold Hill Airpark, NC (NC25)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

Ed,



You're right!  As the number reaches 12 or more the permutations get into the billions!  There are some mathematicians who have made some algorithms that "approximate" the ideal solution with considerably less computations.  I'm no rocket scientist and I'm not going to the moon, so maybe an approximate solution would do.



Smokey

[quote] 

 From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>

 Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:39:53 EDT

 To: <rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com>

 Subject: Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations

 

 As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes in the "traveling Salesman" problem  for  the possible permutations to quickly  become large enough to take an excessive amount of time to solve on the computers of the day (maybe even the home computers of today).  

 

 Ed

  

   ---

jclarkmail(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:53 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

Ron,



I bet you didn't realize you were opening such a can of mathematical worms did ya?   



It is a simple to describe but tough to solve problem.



I was doing some envelope scratching to see if I could come up with a way to do it easily in Excel. (My head is hurting now.  ) 



Ask your friends if they have an Excel solution that can handle a 100x100 matrix. I **think** there may be a way to get "solver" in Excel to do such.



Then the only "work to do is enter the distances from/to all of the airports. That data is typically o the backs of the state aeronautical charts as I recall. 



We just might have a "solution" be fore the day is over.    If so, I plan to apply it to SC, which has <100 public airports.



James

p.s. Seems like there was  an article about this where a guy in NJ did this. There are fewer airports there and I think it was done in a day. The guy may have been associated with Princeton. My mind is fuzzy right now. 



 



On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net (ronschreck(at)windstream.net)> wrote:[quote] --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net (ronschreck(at)windstream.net)>



Ed,



You're right!  As the number reaches 12 or more the permutations get into the billions!  There are some mathematicians who have made some algorithms that "approximate" the ideal solution with considerably less computations.  I'm no rocket scientist and I'm not going to the moon, so maybe an approximate solution would do. 



Smokey

[quote]

 From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com (eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com)>

 Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:39:53 EDT

 To: < rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com (rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com)>

 Subject: Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations



 As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes in the "traveling Salesman" problem  for  the possible permutations to quickly  become large enough to take an excessive amount of time to solve on the computers of the day (maybe even the home computers of today). 



 Ed



   ---

Larry Bowen

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 802
Location: NC, USA

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: NC Airports - 110 destinations

I think this is the program for VA:



http://www.doav.virginia.gov/vaap.htm

-- 

Larry Bowen

Larry(at)BowenAero.com  (Larry(at)BowenAero.com)

http://BowenAero.com 



On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net (ronschreck(at)windstream.net)> wrote:[quote] --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Ron Schreck <ronschreck(at)windstream.net (ronschreck(at)windstream.net)>



Larry,



I'm going to email the NC DOT, Dept of Aviation and see if they have any record of such attempts.  I'll keep you all posted. 



Smokey

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com (Larry(at)bowenaero.com)>

 Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 09:27:28 EDT

 To:  rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com (rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations



 I think VA has a program where they award pilots who have done this...a

 plaque or something.  I think some on the list were working on it.  Not in a 

 day tho, maybe a year instead....



 --

 Larry Bowen

 Larry(at)BowenAero.com (Larry(at)BowenAero.com)

 http://BowenAero.com

 

 On 6/17/07, James Clark <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com (jclarkmail(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 >

 > And a  special case of "traveling salesman" is the Hamiltonian Cycle (or

 > > Path) Problem ... Start at point "a", traverse all once and end up at "a"
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   > using shortest path (or least resources).

 >

 > VERY difficult to solve as the number of points go up. 

 >

 > My guess is that more hours will be spent trying to solve for "the best"

 > route than it would take to fly **A** route.  

 >

 > James

 >

 > >
	


[quote] > On 6/17/07, Paul D. Franzon <paulf(at)ncsu.edu (paulf(at)ncsu.edu)> wrote:

 > >

 > > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Paul D. Franzon" < 

 > > paulf(at)ncsu.edu (paulf(at)ncsu.edu)>

 > >

 > > in math, this is referred to as the 'traveling salesman' problem.  A

 > > google search should turn up some sample codes.  Wikipedia most likely has a 

 > > good entry with sample  codes.

 > >

 > > This might qualify as an FAI record if you do it and document it right.

 > >

 > > Paul Franzon

 > > 919 515 7351 

 > >

 > > --

_________________
Larry Bowen
RV-8 SOLD,
RV-7QB in progress...

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RVSouthEast-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum