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EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS
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m.j.gregory(at)talk21.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

To all Listers  

Please see the updated safety bulletin on the PFA web site – see link below.  

Mike  

Europa Club Safety Officer  

EUROPA SAFETY ALERT UPDATE!  

EUROPA SAFETY BULLETIN RAISED TO ISSUE 2 TO INCLUDE FURTHER GUIDANCE ON ACCEPTANCE DESIGNS OF PIP-PIN RECESSES IN TAILPLANES.   

Europa Flight Safety Bulletin 006  

       [quote][b]

carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

Well, this really puts the cat amongst the pigeons.  

  

 I have just spent a day upgrading the pins in the  tailplane torque so I could continue flying. Not the nicest job in the world  (unless you are a midget)

  

 The revised bulletin effectively grounds  me.

  

 My pip pin hole is circular as are many (its easier  to make a cover for them). Since a circular hole is more "efficient"  circumference wise (as opposed to a rectangle) the circumference of mine aint  big enough.

  

 PFA have advised not to modify them to meet the  criteria but to wait for the revised design - oh and most importantly "Do not  fly the aircraft".

  

 For those that may have a similar problem the  formula is Circumference is 3.142 x diameter. Area is 3.142 x radius  squared.

  

 Limits are 

  

 Base of recess must be more than 170 sq  mm

 Circumference of recess must be more than  125mm

  

 Also recess must have at least 2 layers of bid and  must have flox corners at the join with the tailplane skin.

  

 A one inch (25mm) diameter pip pin recess fails the  above criteria - Area 490sq mm - Circumference only 78mm.

  

 What a bummer.

 [quote]   ---

steven.pitt2(at)ntlworld.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: Europa pip-pin recess

I have just seen the updated safety bulletin and I suspect many of us will 

now find ourselves grounded as having non standard pip-pin recesses.

I have looked at the new Issue 2 and using the calculations therein have 

calculated that

1) the base of the pip-pin recess needs to be at least 13mm by 13mm or a 

radius of 7.35mm and

2) the top recess to the skin needs to be either a square 31.25mm each side 

or a circle of 20mm radius. I suspect it is this latter dimension that is 

going to ground many of us as the nicely turned circular pip-pin recesses 

with built in covers are not likely to be that big.

I have just checked mine and found it to be 14.5mm radius  (29mm diameter) 

so I am grounded for the duration.

Also if you have used plastic fittings without covering them with two plies 

of bid then this will also fail you.

Any one else picked up on this dilemma?

Steve Pitt

G-SMDH Tri gear XS with 46 hours on the clock

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

Carl

I moght be wrong but I would not have grounded you. The smaller the 

circumference the stronger the hole surround?

Graham



Carl Pattinson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Well, this really puts the cat amongst the pigeons.


	


[quote] My pip pin hole is circular as are many (its easier to make a cover for 

 them). Since a circular hole is more "efficient" circumference wise (as 

 opposed to a rectangle) the circumference of mine aint big enough.

  

 PFA have advised not to modify them to meet the criteria but to wait for 

 the revised design - oh and most importantly "Do not fly the aircraft".

  

 For those that may have a similar problem the formula is Circumference 

 is 3.142 x diameter. Area is 3.142 x radius squared.

  

 Limits are

  

 Base of recess must be more than 170 sq mm

 Circumference of recess must be more than 125mm

  

 Also recess must have at least 2 layers of bid and must have flox 

 corners at the join with the tailplane skin.

  

 A one inch (25mm) diameter pip pin recess fails the above criteria - 

 Area 490sq mm - Circumference only 78mm.

  

 What a bummer.

 

     ---

Brian Davies

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: uk

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

The simplest fix would appear to be to construct a "standard recess" on the

underside of the stab in place of the drain hole.  This would be stronger

than the existing construction and would not run the risk of dislodging TP6

whilst trying to undo an existing (non standard)arrangement on the top. 



Brian Davies



--

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

So the "drain hole" on the underside needs to be turned into something

similar to the 'ole on the top which my fast build (ha ha) kit came with?



--

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

Jeremy

thanks for that,

the thing that bothers me, epoxy will not bond reliably to stainless 

steel. That's why the bushes are prone to coming loose.

The only way we can get any secure bonding is by mechanical means. IOW 

saw cuts, drilled dimples etc.

Graham



Jeremy Davey wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Graham,

 

 Reading between the lines (and therefore subject to the proviso that my

 reading may be wrong), I interpret the directive as being about the ability

 of the layup in the hole to bond to the bush, not about the effect on the

 strength of the stabilator skin.

 

 I will refrain from inferring from the directives the direction of the AAIB

 investigation, although I suspect it is clear to many of us.

 

 Regards,

 Jeremy

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

Graham,

Tony K. conveyed some good advice when I did the sleeves. I drilled dimples or 'golfballed' the outer perimeter to increase the strength in the bond with the epoxy and rib.



Tim



--

Tim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street

Fendalton

Christchurch.

Ph. 64 33515166

MOB 0210640221

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz



---- Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Jeremy

 thanks for that,

 the thing that bothers me, epoxy will not bond reliably to stainless 

 steel. That's why the bushes are prone to coming loose.

 The only way we can get any secure bonding is by mechanical means. IOW 

 saw cuts, drilled dimples etc.

 Graham

 

 Jeremy Davey wrote:

 > 

 > 

 > Graham,

 > 

 > Reading between the lines (and therefore subject to the proviso that my

 > reading may be wrong), I interpret the directive as being about the ability

 > of the layup in the hole to bond to the bush, not about the effect on the

 > strength of the stabilator skin.

 > 

 > I will refrain from inferring from the directives the direction of the AAIB

 > investigation, although I suspect it is clear to many of us.

 > 

 > Regards,

 > Jeremy

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

Hello Graham



"> the thing that bothers me, epoxy will not bond reliably to stainless 

 	  Quote: 	
		   steel. That's why the bushes are prone to coming loose.

 The only way we can get any secure bonding is by mechanical means. IOW 

 saw cuts, drilled dimples etc."


	


Our accelerated stabilators had one of the inner bushings debond the first

time fitting the TT.



We took the "Europa Mutilation" route, went at the bushings from the

bottom, cut grooves and rough sanded, first ply was Redux/BID and

Redux/Flox covered in peel ply, and subsequent layers Aeropoxy.



I garbage picked a thin wall Carbon Fiber oar from a rowing skull and

connected the 2 bushings. Same procedure, Redux first ply, then Aeropoxy.



My outer bushing got drilled right through the bottom by the accelerator

with the oversize drill used for drain, thus the pip pin would not grab.

Lakeland sent me next size pip pins, but I canned the whole idea of pip

pins. I am using solid stainless cap head Allen shoulder screws

(www.mcmaster.com type in stainless shoulder screws, then socket). I

turned a threaded base which I knurled and got it stuck when reinforcing

the outer bushing joint.



For the top, I turned a smooth ID wall cup knurled on the OD, just large

enough to accept 2 seals and got it stuck. The top receptacle and bottom

threaded base is stuck well, in event the outer bushing debonded, this

would hold the stabilators in place.



I have no drain on bottom, just can see the head of cap screw that is

flush with stabilator. The 2 seals I am certain would prevent the screws

from ever backing out (also from water ingress), but I installed mini ball

nose plunger to catch a grove on the screw (incorporated in the top

receptacle)



Ron Parigoris

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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

Ron,



Looks like you've come up with a resourceful solution to a nasty 

problem. Do you have any additional pixs to illustrate your fix?



Fred



On Wednesday, June 20, 2007, at 09:21  PM, <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> 

wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hello Graham



 "> the thing that bothers me, epoxy will not bond reliably to stainless

> steel. That's why the bushes are prone to coming loose.

> The only way we can get any secure bonding is by mechanical means. IOW

> saw cuts, drilled dimples etc."



 Our accelerated stabilators had one of the inner bushings debond the 

 first

 time fitting the TT.



 We took the "Europa Mutilation" route, went at the bushings from the

 bottom, cut grooves and rough sanded, first ply was Redux/BID and

 Redux/Flox covered in peel ply, and subsequent layers Aeropoxy.



 I garbage picked a thin wall Carbon Fiber oar from a rowing skull and

 connected the 2 bushings. Same procedure, Redux first ply, then 

 Aeropoxy.



 My outer bushing got drilled right through the bottom by the 

 accelerator

 with the oversize drill used for drain, thus the pip pin would not 

 grab.

 Lakeland sent me next size pip pins, but I canned the whole idea of pip

 pins. I am using solid stainless cap head Allen shoulder screws

 (www.mcmaster.com type in stainless shoulder screws, then socket). I

 turned a threaded base which I knurled and got it stuck when 

 reinforcing

 the outer bushing joint.



 For the top, I turned a smooth ID wall cup knurled on the OD, just 

 large

 enough to accept 2 seals and got it stuck. The top receptacle and 

 bottom

 threaded base is stuck well, in event the outer bushing debonded, this

 would hold the stabilators in place.



 I have no drain on bottom, just can see the head of cap screw that is

 flush with stabilator. The 2 seals I am certain would prevent the 

 screws

 from ever backing out (also from water ingress), but I installed mini 

 ball

 nose plunger to catch a grove on the screw (incorporated in the top

 receptacle)



 Ron Parigoris





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 This message has been scanned for viruses and

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rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

Hello Fred



"Do you have any additional pixs to illustrate your fix?"



A few more 1 of 2.



Ron Parigoris

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rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

Hello Fred



"Do you have any additional pixs to illustrate your fix?"



A few more 2 of 2.



Ron Parigoris

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nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

According to my inspector the other reason for the shape of the recess

is to ensure the tailplane can not migrate sideways at all in the event

of the outer tube becoming disbanded. It is important that the head of

the pip pin is obstructed by the sidewall of the recess before the

locating pins could become free in the root of the tailplane. He

inspected my aircraft before this change to the bulletin and as mine

also has circular recesses he suggested that the inboard side be filled

up to ensure this would be achieved. Obviously this is now out of date

and my aircraft is grounded like many others.



Nigel Charles



--

nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

One thing that has been suggested in the past but I haven't seen

mentioned this time is that, because the pip pins are there just to stop

the tailplanes moving outwards, it is worth making the holes in the

tubes slightly oval in a fore and aft plane. This ensures that the outer

tubes do not take any of the pitching load which might cause them to

disband.



Nigel Charles

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

Ron...a picture's worth 1000 words...thanks, and I need a few more 

words:



I take it the shoulder  of the screws is what penetrates the TT and 

bushes, and both the CF tube and the embedded and threaded "base" you 

turned help to keep the outer bush bonded in place.



Hey...it's gotta be late in NYC...go to bed!  



Fred



On Wednesday, June 20, 2007, at 10:23  PM, <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> 

wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hello Fred



 "Do you have any additional pixs to illustrate your fix?"



 A few more 2 of 2.



 Ron Parigoris



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ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:41 pm Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

Hi! Nigel

If you will forgive me I'd say it slightly different:- "slotted radially

in the top and underside of the torque tube"  (less room for

misunderstanding?)

Regards

Bob Harrison  



--

carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:20 pm Post subject: Europa pip-pin recess

Hi guys,



I spoke to Andy Draper yesterday before the new directive was issued. He 

told me it would be coming out though he didnt divulge the contents (nor did 

we discuss the PFA's ongoing investigations). However I know that the PFA 

are giving this matter their fullest attention and have been in in regular 

contact with the AIIB.



Andy, Neville and Europa are currently working together to devise an 

acceptable mod for the non standard pip pin recesses and I would guess this 

will be published shortly.



Much as I am dissapointed that my upgraded Europa (Mod62) is still not 

considered fit to fly, this process is in everybodys best interests and we 

must accept it for ur own safety.



I would also mention the bulletin states that in the case of non compliant 

pip pin recesses we should consult them (the PFA) on how to proceed. It may 

be that they will clear certain designs once they have had the time to 

assess them. After all, any change to the build manual design constitutes an 

unapproved modification which could have unforseen consequences.



Carl P

G-LABS



---

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:10 am Post subject: Europa pip-pin recess

Yep!!!  4 out of five a/c I have inspected in the last few days (including

my own) are now grounded.



Pete Jeffers



--

karelvranken(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:41 am Post subject: EUROPA PIP-PIN RECESS

Nigel,

This is like treating the symptom and not the illness. The play comes from 

the TP10 fixing on the torque tube. If the pip pin fixes well, the play is 

tranferred on the glue of the TP6 in the foam! If there is any flutter then 

you can imagine how long it will take before the TP6 comes untie.

Even with Ron's solution there is a need to eliminate the play on the 

tailplanes.

I am sure Bob Harrisson is grining.

Karel Vranken

---

josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:51 am Post subject: Europa pip-pin recess

Missed so far any talk aout the club modification: "Improved TP5 and TP6  

Sleeve Retention

PFA mod 10672

Did that and trust it to very rigid.

Comments please?



Regards,



Jos Okhuijsen



-- 



http://www.europaowners.org/kit600

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