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Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Make it easy on yourself.  Sell me the Shadin.  I will simply not admit how many times I've put over 25 gallons into my 50.  



Mark

 



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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:49 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

You're right.  No question that with the same engine, a CJ will walk away from the YAK.  Beautiful wing.  Beautiful airplane.  The downside is that there is more room in a YAK-50 than a CJ-6.  Amazingly hard to believe, but it is true.  I am very very tight in a YAK-50, but simply can't even get in and close the canopy on the CJ.  



Otherwise, I'd own what you just described!  



Mark

 



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brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

On Oct 26, 2007, at 4:48 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,  

MALS-14 64E wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>



 You're right.  No question that with the same engine, a CJ will  

 walk away from the YAK.  Beautiful wing.  Beautiful airplane.  The  

 downside is that there is more room in a YAK-50 than a CJ-6.   

 Amazingly hard to believe, but it is true.  I am very very tight in  

 a YAK-50, but simply can't even get in and close the canopy on the CJ.


	


Huh. That means that the Yak-50 cockpit is cavernous. I find the CJ  

cockpit plenty roomy. I find the Yak-52 to be a bit of a squeeze for  

my 6'2" frame.



And the CJ6A is a nice airframe but the roll rate is just a bit on  

the anemic side. Also, it doesn't have inverted fuel and oil by  

default. Dunno, does anyone make the perfect airplane?



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Okay but can you turn around inside your on asshole?

The 50 can.

Doc



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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Hey, come to think of it... I have not put over 25 gallons in my 50 after one flight yet either!!!!

NOOOTTTTT! Only when I fly with the 52's and CJ's does that not happen after one hour.

Doc



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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

You are right Brian...nobody makes the perfect airplane! But is sure is fun

as hell trying to find and fly that perfect airframe. I have to say the ol'

F-16 Viper came awful danged close though...well that is until the F-22 came

along that is! 

Doc



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brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

On Oct 26, 2007, at 5:18 PM, viperdoc wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Okay but can you turn around inside your on asshole?

 The 50 can.


	


One thing to consider is that turn radius is purely a function of  

pulling G and TAS. Two airplanes pulling the same G at the same TAS  

are making the same circle. The only way you can make a Yak-50 out- 

turn a CJ6A is to pull more G or fly at at a lower TAS (or both).  

That is where you lose a lot of energy too so you can't keep it up.  

Something to think about.



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Brian, I can not really get into a 52 OR a CJ.  But I also admit to being just short of 6 feet 7 inches tall AND, I am not what you would call "thin" anymore.  



Yes, truly the 50 has more room.  You can also modify it so as to move the seat aft a little bit, which I have done with mine.  My torso height is such that sitting in a CJ, if I tilt my head all the way down to my shoulder, I can close the canopy.  



I wish mightily that all the above was NOT the case.  My airplane choices are limited. 



Mark

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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

You've summed up the 50's strong point.  It has a very unusual wing for a purpose built aerobatic airplane.  Asymmetrical and very long.  It's low speed performance is pretty much legend.  



Mark B.   



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brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

On Oct 26, 2007, at 5:54 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,  

MALS-14 64E wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>



 Brian, I can not really get into a 52 OR a CJ.  But I also admit to  

 being just short of 6 feet 7 inches tall AND, I am not what you  

 would call "thin" anymore.



 Yes, truly the 50 has more room.  You can also modify it so as to  

 move the seat aft a little bit, which I have done with mine.  My  

 torso height is such that sitting in a CJ, if I tilt my head all  

 the way down to my shoulder, I can close the canopy.



 I wish mightily that all the above was NOT the case.  My airplane  

 choices are limited.


	


Ah, too bad. That kinda sucks. Little bitty airplanes are fun. I wore  

my RV-4 like a glove. I sure as heck didn't have any room to do  

anything but fly once I put it on. Even handling charts was a  

challenge. But it sure felt like *I* was flying.



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Yak-List message posted by: "flir47" <me262pilot(at)comcast.net> 



I highly doubt you have 10 grand to bet anyway. Half of the BS you spew here is accurate. I donâEUR(tm)t think your parents let you be correct enough when you were a child. 

I like to know where your FEA data is to back up your claim????

Only an imbecile would pay 250 dollars to listen to your "opinion"



--------

You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!

Mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil replies:  



The articles I have written on this list regarding the YAK-50 are as accurate as I can make them.  If you feel that anything I have written is inaccurate, point it out and state what you feel is wrong and your basis for the disagreement.  If anything I have said is wrong, or incorrect, I will be happy to apologize and correct it.  By all means, accuracy and honesty in the written and spoken word is one of the most important things in life.  As regards my comments concerning the YAK-50 Spar Mod, please read a much better description of this issue recently written by Richard Goode.  Please note his comments about recommended G limitations of YAK-50's WITH THE SPAR MODIFICATIONS MADE.  If you have questions about maximum G loading of a YAK-50 that does NOT have these modifications, please ask Richard.  I defer to his expertise which in that area is clearly much better than my own.  



Let me be clear.  YOU made a claim of owning a YAK-50 that could cruise at 193 miles per hour at 70% power with a 12 GPH fuel burn.  Every YAK-50 owner on this lists knows that is impossible.  The more you continue to say it is true, the more people will doubt anything you might ever say.  The smart move right now is to stop making ridiculous claims and kind of drop out of the picture for awhile until everyone forgets.  



This has nothing to do with spewing BS, or what my parents did or did not do to me as a child.  It has nothing to do with name calling, or trying to anger each other.  It has to do with making true statements and being willing to back up what comes out of ones mouth with the hard earned money that comes out of ones wallet.  It also does not matter whether I built an RV or not.  



My name is Mark Bitterlich.  My aircraft's N number is N50YK.  I'm in the phone book.  I'd appreciate if you start signing your emails with your own name as well.  It is the honest thing to do, and I am sure you would agree.  



Best Regards, 



Mark Bitterlich

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>

>

> Brian, I can not really get into a 52 OR a CJ.  But I also admit to  

> being just short of 6 feet 7 inches tall AND, I am not what you  

> would call "thin" anymore.

>

> Yes, truly the 50 has more room.  You can also modify it so as to  

> move the seat aft a little bit, which I have done with mine.  My  

> torso height is such that sitting in a CJ, if I tilt my head all  

> the way down to my shoulder, I can close the canopy.

>

> I wish mightily that all the above was NOT the case.  My airplane  

> choices are limited.


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

replied:
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

Ah, too bad. That kinda sucks. Little bitty airplanes are fun. I wore  

my RV-4 like a glove. I sure as heck didn't have any room to do  

anything but fly once I put it on. Even handling charts was a  

challenge. But it sure felt like *I* was flying.


	


My shoulders hit both sides of the 50.  A parachute may be able to be

done, but I have yet to be able to get one on, and then get into the

aircraft.  You will (I am sure) remember my diatribe with RPA over that

issue.    I have so far broken one YAK-50 canopy with my head.  It's

worth it though.  



I'm completely serious... If I could fit into one, I'd own a CJ-6.  And

yes... It sucks so badly you just can barely imagine.  Envy is not a

nice thing. 



Mark B.

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Mark,



I believe this is the airplane that Flir47 owns. I met the guy who recently bought his Yak-52. 



http://members.cox.net/yakpilot/n63ra.htm



Being a 1977 model, it seems to have never been modified. I think this airplane carries some history. 



As for room in the Yak-50, I am 5'11" and as far as I am concerned, it is perfect. If I could only get the seat to recline like the one in the jet I fly does, all would be good.

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:46 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Amazing: in this article it is claimed that the YK50 can do a 5000 FT per

minute climb with the original Russian propeller and the 360 horsepower

Ivchenko engine. 



I need a three-bladed MT 9-260 prop to do that. And I am not really certain

that it really performs that climb speed (IMHO there are not enough data to

claim this).

By the way, I recently did a +9,5 G pull, and I deeply regret it. I will

NEVER do it again, although a recent thorough inspection by two Russian

mechanics (one of them a riveting specialist from the Shakthy factory)

showed no damage. I had some damage to the right elevator (two ribs broken).

But there's strong evidence that this is not caused by the high G's.



Richard Goode is absolutely right. Don't pull more than 6 G's on these

beautiful oldtimers, because that is what they are: oldtimers. If you want

to do more, fly an Extra 300 or an Edge 540



All the best,



Jan Mevis





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dabear(at)damned.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:31 am Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Mark,



I'm 6'3" and not thin anymore.  I'm also tall in the body not in the 

legs.  When I sit at a table with other folks, I'm taller than everyone 

at the table.  That said, I've modified my CJ so that I can fit in it 

and so that I can actually get a pad between my parachute and my butt.  

If you are interested in the CJ, come see what I've done to it so that 

I'm comfortable.



DaBear



Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote:

[quote] 



 Brian, I can not really get into a 52 OR a CJ.  But I also admit to being just short of 6 feet 7 inches tall AND, I am not what you would call "thin" anymore.  



 Yes, truly the 50 has more room.  You can also modify it so as to move the seat aft a little bit, which I have done with mine.  My torso height is such that sitting in a CJ, if I tilt my head all the way down to my shoulder, I can close the canopy.  



 I wish mightily that all the above was NOT the case.  My airplane choices are limited. 



 Mark

 --

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

 	  Quote: 	
		  No data to support it...but it is on the internet so it must be true. 	




Wow.....



Richard has been involved in Yaks for a loooooong time and his "opinion" carries a lot more weight than someone who has owned a Yak-50 for less than 6 months. I would willing to bet that Richard has more time cycling the gear on  a -50 than you do between your former -52 and your new -50. 



He has been a great help to this group and I would be willing to bet had it not been for him, many of these airplanes would have never seen the light of day and may have been lost forever.

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Yes of course, I never said that it's not possible with the original prop to climb very fast. There are many factors, INCLUDING pilot's skill (and I stay very humble as for that). I still don't even know what my best rate of climb or angle of climb speed is. These data are not present in the aircraft's book. As a matter of fact, it is not very important. The Yak 50 is an amazing beast anyway. I also fly an Extra 300L, but my Yak 50 outperforms it easily as for climbing and acceleration. If I want to do aerobatics, I prefer the Extra. For fun flying and formation flying, the Yak is superior (my own very subjective opinion).



Best regards,



Jan



 



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HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Edited:   I will be the adult.....



Sorry to the rest of you.....

Last edited by HawkerPilot2015 on Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

I would like to know who's hiding behind this flir47 or me262pilot. Why is

he so aggressive ? 



 



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talew(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

I don,t have a clue who they are. They are autodelete on my system.

Terry

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