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Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
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brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

On Oct 26, 2007, at 7:40 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,  

MALS-14 64E wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   My shoulders hit both sides of the 50.  A parachute may be able to be

 done, but I have yet to be able to get one on, and then get into the

 aircraft.  You will (I am sure) remember my diatribe with RPA over  

 that

 issue.    I have so far broken one YAK-50 canopy with my head.   

 It's

 worth it though.



 I'm completely serious... If I could fit into one, I'd own a CJ-6.   

 And

 yes... It sucks so badly you just can barely imagine.  Envy is not a

 nice thing.


	


The CJ6A is a nice airplane but since I have been flying Tyson's  

Yak-52 and flying the Pitts this past summer, I want something with  

more performance all around the envelope. The CJ6A and Yak-52 are  

nice but none of them are what you would call real performers. I want  

a faster roll rate, a faster cruise, and a better climb. I also want  

to burn less fuel.



Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brianl AT lloyd DOT com             Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

scott-p(at)texas.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Try a 55, Brian. Or a Su-29. Much better roll rate, much better vertical

performance. OK, the cruise isn't faster and the fuel burn is the same, but

the fun factor is off scale high.



Scott Poehlmann

Yak 55M  N155YK



--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Danged, I'm getting really confused now! Who's looking for a YAK-50? Brian,

Mark, Greasy, Partridge, Pear tree....

Well bugger me!

Doc



--

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

On Oct 27, 2007, at 7:02 PM, viperdoc wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Danged, I'm getting really confused now! Who's looking for a  

 YAK-50? Brian,

 Mark, Greasy, Partridge, Pear tree....


	


Not me.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Well bugger me!


	


Not bloody likely!



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

You're correct Jan.  I've never seen that kind of performance on the three 50's that I have flown.  However, with a 400 HP engine, and a modern MT-9-260 thick root...,... maybe it is possible.  

  

 By the way, I was once asked to ferry this exact aircraft.  Long story, but I decided against it.  

  

 Mark Bitterlich

 



 

 ---

yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:29 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Thanks Tim for the heads up.  Here are some interesting tidbits. 

  

 1.  Flir47 never signs his own name.   

 2.  He is a very sarcastic  individual who enjoys badmouthing anyone and everyone.  

 3.  He got very frantic when it was suggested that a YAK-50 without spar modifications should not pull over 5 G's and that not having this modification lowered the worth of the aircraft.  I should have tied that kind of response to be one  from the owner of such an aircraft?

 4.  YAK-50 77-1009 shows an incorrect "N" number on the YAK census list. 

 5.  N number N63RA shows up at the FAA's registration site as "May not be suitable for operation".  

6. Tim, can you remember the N number of the 52 that this gent sold?  

  

 Thanks, 

  

 Mark Bitterlich

 

 

 ---

yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Rog.... I'd love to do that!  

  

 Mark

 



 

 ---

yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Concur Tim.

  

 Mark Bitterlich

 



 

 ---

yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Well Tim, welcome to the "idiot" list.  Sorry to see this person talk to you this way as well.  

  

 A little bit more and I am going to suggest a vote. 

  

 Mark Bitterlich

 



 

 ---

yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Tim, if you truly know... I'd ask/suggest/whatever... that you post this gentlemans name on the list and where he is from.  I strongly suspect that once everyone knows exactly who he is and where they have to go to buy him a cup of coffee, he might be just a tad more polite. 

  

 Regardless, I do not believe it is in anyones best interests to be required to put up with this kind of abuse on this list. 

  

 Mark Bitterlich

  

 ---

yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Because he is anonymous Jan.  I have seen it countless times before all over the internet, and I suspect everyone else has run into it at one time or another as well.  It usually involves someone who has a real honest to goodness inferiority complex.  In the normal world they are afraid of most anything and everything, and they hate themselves for it.  Simply put, they are usually closet cowards. When they get access to the internet, they live to try and transfer some of that frustration and anger they have felt all throughout their lives to other people.  They do this by being very careful to never let anyone know who they are, where they live, etc.  The Internet becomes the world  where they can be a big ole bad ass, and never have to fear that someone might actually come along and make them stand behind the way they act, and the way they talk.  This is why I so quickly offered to bet this man $10,000.  I knew there was no way in the world that he would ever accept the offer.  He simply can't.  That would involve him actually having to meet someone that he has been so nasty to, and that is something he will NEVER allow to happen.  The thought scares him to death, and when he feels scared, he gets even more nasty and throws around even more bad language.  He desperately wants respect, but truthfully simply does not know how to go about getting it.  Believe it or not, he really would like to be good friends with everyone here, he simply does not know how to go about that either.

  

 There are two mature ways to deal with people like this: 

  

 1.  Go to the list server owner and ask for him to be removed. 

 2.  Ignore him.  

  

 Now, if I could only follow my own advice.....  I am trying.  

  

 Mark Bitterlich

 



 

 ---

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:08 am Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Well, from now on, I’ll ignore everything coming from flir47 or me262 (automatic filter to junk mail). Luckily there are other pilots on this list with very valuable information !!!   

   

Jan Mevis  

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pilot

 Sent: zondag 28 oktober 2007 6:55

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia  

  

       

Because he is anonymous Jan.  I have seen it countless times before all over the internet, and I suspect everyone else has run into it at one time or another as well.  It usually involves someone who has a real honest to goodness inferiority complex.  In the normal world they are afraid of most anything and everything, and they hate themselves for it.  Simply put, they are usually closet cowards. When they get access to the internet, they live to try and transfer some of that frustration and anger they have felt all throughout their lives to other people.  They do this by being very careful to never let anyone know who they are, where they live, etc.  The Internet becomes the world where they can be a big ole bad ass, and never have to fear that someone might actually come along and make them stand behind the way they act, and the way they talk.  This is why I so quickly offered to bet this man $10,000.  I knew there was no way in the world that he would ever accept the offer.  He simply can't.  That would involve him actually having to meet someone that he has been so nasty to, and that is something he will NEVER allow to happen.  The thought scares him to death, and when he feels scared, he gets even more nasty and throws around even more bad language.  He desperately wants respect, but truthfully simply does not know how to go about getting it.  Believe it or not, he really would like to be good friends with everyone here, he simply does not know how to go about that either.  

    

   

    

There are two mature ways to deal with people like this:   

    

   

    

1.  Go to the list server owner and ask for him to be removed.   

    

2.  Ignore him.    

    

   

    

Now, if I could only follow my own advice.....  I am trying.    

    

   

    

Mark Bitterlich  

    



 

    

    

---

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:00 am Post subject: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*97998591!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search/search_nnr-complex.html

This will give you some info on all the Yak owners in the US. Just put make and model in the search engine and then the state (Michigan) and you will see there is only ONE Yak-50 up there. No name yet...soon I am sure. 



I met the new -52 owner back in September. I think he has been in touch with a friend of mine. Let me do some research. He was a nice guy! 



I have been called worst than idiot in my life from better people..no sweat. The older I get, the less I care.

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

 	  Quote: 	
		  This has nothing to do with my bird. I knew it was not modded before I bought it. I don't care because.... I put no value in hearsay.



When someone shows some real data to prove otherwise its not true. 	




Good luck finding a whole lot of "real data" to begin with. Since the thing was a throw away airplane, I do not think the Russians spent much time building a library of technical info on it. (I am not saying they did not put the engineering into it...just not much documentation). Now, having said that, if they felt it was important enough to modify the -50 population and then incorporate that modification into the manufacturing process, I think that says something about the "proof" you may need. If they did not think it was an issue, why would they mod the airplane? 



I have been flying airplanes long enough to know that when the factory comes out with a fix, it probably means something needs to be fixed. Remember if this were a certified airplane, we would have a AD on the airplane and would HAVE to get it fixed or it would limit the airplanes operation. Those bulletins from Russia are AD's as far as I am concerned and I would treat them as such.



If you want to go out and pull your airplane around the sky and disregard what is commonly believed to be a strict limit, have at it. The only person you will kill will be yourself. 



As for buying the airplane without the mod, good luck selling it. I was told to steer well clear of any -50 without the mod...to include your airplane. Most people that will spend the money to buy one of these, will do the research and will be told the same thing and that is...AVOID an airplane without the mod. 



Enjoy your airplane....

yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

I am very much an idiot for trying again, but I'll take a stab at it.  And no, I am not being sarcastic about being an idiot.  I really must be. 

  

 Most aircraft of that period were designed with a slide rule.  So was the the original vehicle that landed on the moon by and large.  After the 50 was produced, there were a few cases of the center wing spar failing.  When it did, the wings folded and killed every pilot it happened to.  I was not a Russian citizen when this happened, so some might call this hear-say.  However, I have talked with the Russian pilots who were there when it did, and I believe them.  No one else has to.  

  

 After this happened a few times, someone in Russia said: "OOPS", and changed the design to include modifications to strengthen the that part of the aircraft.  

  

 It is absolutely true that some of these Russian aerobatic pilots were pulling up around 11 G's.  It is also absolutely true that everyone was so worried about the wings on this airplane that they oftentimes flew them as hard as they could for around 50 hours and then retired them.  I think anyone intimate with YAK-50's will remember that they oftentimes came into this country with VERY VERY low airframe time.  Mine came into this country with 60 hours on it.  Others have stories close to this.  

  

 It is not only possible, but entirely likely that ALL of these 50's were exposed to very hard G loading.  These aircraft were not flown by students, but by up and coming, or.. already there... Russian Aerobatic experts.  In mine, that was Sergei Boriak.  He flew my exact airplane in Kazakhstan.  Again it might be considered hear-say, but you can't get any better to being there than to talk to the actual Russian pilot who flew your exact airplane in the USSR and have him tell you EXACTLY what he did with it.  

  

 The Spar Mod was meant to reduce the chances of the failure that killed the pilots mentioned above.  That said, I can't see how anyone in the world could not see that a 50 without these modifications should be flown with more care than those WITH the modification.  

  

 Of course it is also any owners prerogative to say: "Oh to heck with all that nonsense, I don't believe any of it.".  

  

 Mark Bitterlich 

 And Mr. Flir... I still would appreciate it if you would sign your messages on this list with your name.  If you do not, my question is why do you demand to remain anonymous?  

 ---

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

On Oct 28, 2007, at 4:26 PM, Yak Pilot wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Most aircraft of that period were designed with a slide rule.  So  

 was the the original vehicle that landed on the moon by and large.


	


Absolutely, and most airplanes today still could be safely designed  

using a slide rule. A good slide rule will give you 3 digits of  

precision. That represents an error of 0.1%. If an error of 0.1% is  

the difference between living and dying then you like your designs to  

be just a little too close to the edge for my taste.

--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Well, I do not know about most of you 50 flyers but I have no desire to push

9 G's or anything above 6. I've been to 9 way to many times in my career.

The one thing I know for sure is that they hurt more the older you get! So

the old arthritic neck pays for that 9 g pull now when I go fly with the

squadron. Seems the young bucks have not learned that the fight can be won

with finesse, SA, and flight path projection. Getting your neck/head trapped

at deep 6 at 9 g's flat ass hurts now!

Now saying that, we are not talking BFM  here and the need to pull hard G's

with our 50's. I am sure the spar mod was done for the very reason that Mark

spoke of. Two dead from a folded wing certainly got the Yakolev design

beureaus' attention. I tend to take heed on that also. 

We learn from our previous design errors. We are constantly trying to build

safety into our systems by making airframe/engine improvements. On that I

certainly take heed on what the design beureau deemed necessary to change

for the protection of their pilots/students.

Now, as Richard Goode said, it is safe to fly a 50 without the spar mod as

long as it is flown at or below 5 g's. Go for it. Keeping in mind that metal

has memory and without translating the logs we really do not know what we

got in our box of chocolates do we. Assuming everything written in the logs

is accurate. I hope so for my sake and all the other 50 flyers!

Now if the 50s' without spar mods are flown within the g limits recommended,

then it should be safe. But that is my humble opinion and everyone knows

about opinions and anus', we have them! It's how we use them dictates how we

will be remembered.

I know I intend to get the lady in Doug's post (Alonya Smit I believe) busy

translating my logs for the 50 and the 52.

It could be the best $200 I spent. Well atleast after I figure out what

caused the limitation in the free movement of my stick this evening after I

taxied in! 

Doc

 



--

netmaster15(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:12 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Mark, Isn't that yak 50 -N 63 RA- the aircraft that has the roll bar in it? If so , you know who owned it and had to have extensive repairs done to it, don't you? 

CLIFF



-- Yak Pilot <yakplt(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  Thanks Tim for the heads up.  Here are some interesting tidbits. 

  

 1.  Flir47 never signs his own name.   

 2.  He is a very sarcastic  individual who enjoys badmouthing anyone and everyone.  

 3.  He got very frantic when it was suggested that a YAK-50 without spar modifications should not pull over 5 G's and that not having this modification lowered the worth of the aircraft.  I should have tied that kind of response to be one  from the owner of such an aircraft?

 4.  YAK-50 77-1009 shows an incorrect "N" number on the YAK census list. 

 5.  N number N63RA shows up at the FAA's registration site as "May not be suitable for operation".  

6. Tim, can you remember the N number of the 52 that this gent sold?  

  

 Thanks, 

  

 Mark Bitterlich

 

 

 ---

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Hi Cliff, 



Yes, I BELIEVE you and Tim are right and it is the one with the roll bar

in it.  Bud's old airplane.  I was asked to ferry that aircraft to a new

buyer some years ago, and I ended up being too busy.  That was after I

found out that it has some "minor issues" that needed to be addressed

but was "Ok to fly a long cross country".  



Thanks for the heads up.  Yes, I think we all know the history.  Sadly. 



Mark Bitterlich 



--

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