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l.morris(at)tx.rr.com
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 Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:05 am Post subject: Questions about ELTs?? |
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I was an airline pilot for 20 years and there was no hard fast rule to monitor 121.5 in our ops manual. Alot of ex-military types like myself and Vietnam vets would monitor the freq so we could locate and or comunicate with someone going down. Do not archive Leon Morris/Classic 4 (94)/60%/Flower Mound,TX
---- fox5flyer <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
I don't know if it was myth or magic, but as I recall, someone once told me
that all airliners were required to monitor 121.5. My question is, is this
a true fact and if it is, are they still doing it? Also, do ATC facilities
still monitor 121.5/243.0?
Deke
S5, NE Michigan
>
>
> Darin sez:
>
>>I recently attended a seminar by the owner of preparedpilot.com on
>>surviving a night (or nights) in the backcountry and the way he approaches
>>that question is that he adds "PLB Activation" to his mental emergency
>>procedure. In other words, if you have an emergency and know you are
>>going down, you will most likely have that second or two to activate your
>>PLB, so add that to your emergency procedure and hit the button before you
>>crash.
>
> Apparently he wasn't in my Kitfox with me when I crashed into the side of
> a mountain. His assumption is unrealistic--there was no time to activate
> anything.
>
> Anyone concerned about the possibility of an emergency landing should
> spend a few extra dollars and replace their 121 MHz ELT with a 406 MHz
> model to go along with their personal beacon. That's what I plan to do.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
> Phoenix, AZ
>
>
>
>
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clemwehner(at)sbcglobal.n
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:11 am Post subject: Questions about ELTs?? |
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I was a military C-141 transport pilot and I don't remember anything
official about monitoring Guard (121.5 and 243.0), though we always did
when radios were available. I think it was a holdover from our combat
days when listening for buddies who got shot down.
A little OT but, when crossing the ocean and often over undeveloped
countries with little air traffic control like the mideast, we also
monitored 123.45 which was an unnofficial interplane frequency for
military and airliners. Occasionally we coordinated with other aircraft
when ATC failed to provide separation over places like Egypt. ATC there
consisted of a one Egyptian guy on the ground with an HF radio and a
grease pencil board, relying on aircraft position reports to keep us
separated. I even once talked to a guy on 123.45 in a Cessna 182 over
the North Atlantic who was ferrying it to Europe. Gutsy guy!
Anyway, I'd say monitoring 121.5 will probably be a practice that will
continues even if not required.
Clem Wehner
KF-IV-912
Lawton, OK
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Michel
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:15 am Post subject: Questions about ELTs?? |
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On Dec 9, 2007, at 5:11 PM, clemwehner wrote:
| Quote: | Anyway, I'd say monitoring 121.5 will probably be a practice that will
continues even if not required.
|
That is something I never understood, Clem. At sea, everyone is
listening to Channel 16, except when in a VTSS (Vessel Traffic
Separation Scheme) where you're asked to listen to the Vessel Traffic
Surveillance frequency). Channel 16 is the distress and call frequency.
The coast stations use it to broadcast Notice to Mariners (the
equivalent to NOTAM), to announce weather information (transmitted on
other working frequencies) etc. Vessels use it to call each other when
e.g. asking 'What are your intentions?' when crossing another vessel in
narrow waterways. Everybody listen to it and whenever you're in
trouble, you know someone listen to it.
Why isn't it the same for aircraft in G-zone?
In Norway, we have endless discussions as to what to listen and report
to when in G-zones. Some say that we should listen and report position
to the Control Center for that region. Others say that we should use
the special GA frequency of 123.50 used to auto-report position to
other traffic. I often come in those discussions to say: 'I don't care
which frequency but make up your mind because being on different ones
is what causes danger!'
Incidentally, 123.45 is also what we use for small talk plane-to-plane,
such as flights in formation.
Could it be that seafarers are smarter than us?
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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moosepileit
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Questions about ELTs?? |
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First time posting, go easy on me.
I'm a current Mil transport pilot in the Reserves, we monitor 121.5 and 243.0 most all the time, even getting bearings on 243.0 on most types on a BDHI. About the only time we tune it out is on airdrop ingresses in formation (either lead or tail end or someone will be given the task to monitor just in case, though- radio orchestration is an art and science in flights of more than 3) and when refueling from a tanker- the tanker monitors for us, we just hang onto the boom and get the gas and talk on the interphone up to the crew in the tanker.
I'm also part 121 cargo, and we monitor 121.5 unless talking to a gate. Oceanic standard/IATA Freq is almost universally 123.45 now for self reporting/turbulence reports, etc. When oceanic and on HF, we monitor 123.45 and 121.5 on the VHF radios. I'm pretty sure these are ops normal.
I have as well have buddies helped talk for/with or relay to FSS when folks have problems on 121.5 and overflew an ejection once- hearing the bailout on 243 then the chute beeper on 243 will leave an indellible mark on your memory. Fella was in a rescue helo inside 30 minutes- that was inside the US so it's not class'd...
Pre-9/11 I think airliners stayed on gate or company freq on the non-atc radio. Now they stay on 121.5. I know the one time another airliner and I were relaying for a Cessna on 121.5 we got yelled at by another skygod capt that couldn't hear the Cessna's part of the conversation (power reduction)- had to take time to explain to him that we were using 121.5 for it's intended purpose, not as a unicom....
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Fox5flyer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject: Questions about ELTs?? |
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That's good to hear. Thanks.
Deke
NE Michigan
do not archive
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Michel
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: Questions about ELTs?? |
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On Dec 10, 2007, at 10:16 PM, moosepileit wrote:
| Quote: | I know the one time another airliner and I were relaying for a Cessna
on 121.5 we got yelled at by another skygod capt that couldn't hear
the Cessna's part of the conversation
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That's an interesting point. When I fly my Kitfox from the east to the
west of Norway, above the central plateau, I barely hear Oslo Control,
then Stavanger Control on the west side. But I know they don't hear me
because I am much weaker. What should I do then if I get into trouble?
My plan is then to switch to 121.50, send a distress signal in blind,
together with my position. I hope then that an airliner flying higher
can hear me and relay to an appropriate ATC/SAR station.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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akanka(at)kiamichiwb.org
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: Questions about ELTs?? |
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Your plan of action has saved several lives in Alaska over the years. If
you go down in the mountains in AK, there is no line of sight radio
communications, except those that happen to be flying overhead. The high
flying guys are about your only hope, unless you are equipped with satellite
telephone.
John Hart
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