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GrummanDude
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:09 pm Post subject: Cowling update |
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As I sit here and get ready to update, I wonder how many folks on the GG don't know anything at all aboout the cowling.
The cowling is final back from the paint shop. He does good work; he's just slower than molasses. His specialty is custom cars and hot rods so he's always backed up on those.
Regarding the carb heat test: I may have mentioned on here that the stock set-up with a PowerFlow didn't pass the carb heat test. The way the test is run, if it's hot outside, it's damn hard to pass the test. I missed it by 4 degrees. I'm hoping for 30 degree air. Then I only have to do one test. You see, even though I didn't change anything in the path, since the carb heat source is 'inside' the cowling, the FAA sees it as affecting carb heat. I need to get a 90 degree temperature rise out of it. On the stock cowling, I missed it by 4 degrees. By-the-way, I did find a couple of cold air leaks. Fixed those.
I'm going to install the first production cowling today. I need to create the installation procedure of the cam locks as I go. That should be fun. Cross your fingers that I don't have a Grumman fly in on an emergency.
Also, I've been fixing fuel leaks in a 2-seater. I hate those things.
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Gary
AuCountry Aviation
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res02p3h(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: Cowling update |
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Gary,
OK, I'm not the smartest person in the world, but wasn't the carb heat source inside the cowl for the original cowling? Why would your new cowl, which has better airflow through it, cause a difference that would make the FAA go bonkers?
It seems as though every obstacle you overcome, they throw up a new one. Government in action. And people want to turn control of their healthcare over to this government.....
Bruce Smith
On Dec 13, 2007, at 3:08 PM, teamgrumman(at)aol.com (teamgrumman(at)aol.com) wrote:
[quote]As I sit here and get ready to update, I wonder how many folks on the GG don't know anything at all aboout the cowling.
The cowling is final back from the paint shop. He does good work; he's just slower than molasses. His specialty is custom cars and hot rods so he's always backed up on those.
Regarding the carb heat test: I may have mentioned on here that the stock set-up with a PowerFlow didn't pass the carb heat test. The way the test is run, if it's hot outside, it's damn hard to pass the test. I missed it by 4 degrees. I'm hoping for 30 degree air. Then I only have to do one test. You see, even though I didn't change anything in the path, since the carb heat source is 'inside' the cowling, the FAA sees it as affecting carb heat. I need to get a 90 degree temperature rise out of it. On the stock cowling, I missed it by 4 degrees. By-the-way, I did find a couple of cold air leaks. Fixed those.
I'm going to install the first production cowling today. I need to create the installation procedure of the cam locks as I go. That should be fun. Cross your fingers that I don't have a Grumman fly in on an emergency.
Also, I've been fixing fuel leaks in a 2-seater. I hate those things.
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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[b]
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jamey
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: Cowling update |
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“Also, I've been fixing fuel leaks in a 2-seater. I hate those things.”
Fuel leaks or two-seaters? 
Congrats on the rest of your progress!
Happy holidays!
Jamey
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:08 PM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Cowling update
As I sit here and get ready to update, I wonder how many folks on the GG don't know anything at all aboout the cowling.
The cowling is final back from the paint shop. He does good work; he's just slower than molasses. His specialty is custom cars and hot rods so he's always backed up on those.
Regarding the carb heat test: I may have mentioned on here that the stock set-up with a PowerFlow didn't pass the carb heat test. The way the test is run, if it's hot outside, it's damn hard to pass the test. I missed it by 4 degrees. I'm hoping for 30 degree air. Then I only have to do one test. You see, even though I didn't change anything in the path, since the carb heat source is 'inside' the cowling, the FAA sees it as affecting carb heat. I need to get a 90 degree temperature rise out of it. On the stock cowling, I missed it by 4 degrees. By-the-way, I did find a couple of cold air leaks. Fixed those.
I'm going to install the first production cowling today. I need to create the installation procedure of the cam locks as I go. That should be fun. Cross your fingers that I don't have a Grumman fly in on an emergency.
Also, I've been fixing fuel leaks in a 2-seater. I hate those things.
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
012345678901234
No virus found in this incoming message.
12/13/2007 9:15 AM
12/13/2007 9:15 AM
[quote][b]
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aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:12 pm Post subject: Cowling update |
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I thought it was the four place that was plagued with fuel leaks not the two
place. What kind of fuel leak problems occur with the two place? First I've
heard about this...
We shall not cease from exploration.
And at the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive were we started
And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N641HY (at) ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Reply-To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Cowling update
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:08:26 -0500
As I sit here and get ready to update, I wonder how many folks on the GG
don't know anything at all aboout the cowling.
The cowling is final back from the paint shop. He does good work; he's
just slower than molasses. His specialty is custom cars and hot rods so
he's always backed up on those.
Regarding the carb heat test: I may have mentioned on here that the stock
set-up with a PowerFlow didn't pass the carb heat test. The way the test
is run, if it's hot outside, it's damn hard to pass the test. I missed it
by 4 degrees. I'm hoping for 30 degree air. Then I only have to do one
test. You see, even though I didn't change anything in the path, since the
carb heat source is 'inside' the cowling, the FAA sees it as affecting carb
heat. I need to get a 90 degree temperature rise out of it. On the stock
cowling, I missed it by 4 degrees. By-the-way, I did find a couple of cold
air leaks. Fixed those.
I'm going to install the first production cowling today. I need to create
the installation procedure of the cam locks as I go. That should be fun.
Cross your fingers that I don't have a Grumman fly in on an emergency.
Also, I've been fixing fuel leaks in a 2-seater. I hate those things.
________________________________________________________________________
aol.com
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GrummanDude
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject: Cowling update |
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both
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Gary
AuCountry Aviation
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GrummanDude
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: Cowling update |
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Their argument is: Since I didn't know what the pressure was in the cowling lower deck (stock cowling) and since I changed the shape of the cooling air inlet and the shape of the cooling air exhaust ramps, I must have changed the pressure inside the cowling and therefore changed the carb heat. PLUS, since I use a ROUND inlet into the carburetor (on the baffle behind #3) how can they be sure the air to the carburetor is the same (cooler or warmer).
Draw your own conclusions. For what it's worth, it was the stock cowling that didn't pass the test. The FAA wouldn't accept being "as good or better than the stock configuration" for the testing. I have to meet the current requirements of the FARs.
--
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Gary
AuCountry Aviation
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GrummanDude
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:39 pm Post subject: Cowling update |
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The "O" rings on both inboard spar plugs were leaking. We had to remove the filler side to get one of them out. Used an 8 foot 2x4 to push it out.
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Gary
AuCountry Aviation
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res02p3h(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:41 am Post subject: Cowling update |
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Some years ago, when you first started this quest for a new cowl, I asked you if you were going to tackle creating carbon fiber or composite ailerons and flaps. I recall your answer being a guarded "maybe" with the caveat that doing flight controls would be a whole can of worms (my words for your thoughts) and that in the long run, the cost probably wouldn't justify the effort. I truly believe it now.
Bruce
On Dec 14, 2007, at 1:32 AM, teamgrumman(at)aol.com (teamgrumman(at)aol.com) wrote:
[quote]Their argument is: Since I didn't know what the pressure was in the cowling lower deck (stock cowling) and since I changed the shape of the cooling air inlet and the shape of the cooling air exhaust ramps, I must have changed the pressure inside the cowling and therefore changed the carb heat. PLUS, since I use a ROUND inlet into the carburetor (on the baffle behind #3) how can they be sure the air to the carburetor is the same (cooler or warmer).
Draw your own conclusions. For what it's worth, it was the stock cowling that didn't pass the test. The FAA wouldn't accept being "as good or better than the stock configuration" for the testing. I have to meet the current requirements of the FARs.
--
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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: Cowling update |
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The factory should have provided a tapped hole or sealed bolt through the plug so you could use a hammer puller to remove the plug!
Cliff
[quote] ---
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GrummanDude
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:44 am Post subject: Cowling update |
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The factory should have put in access covers on all 2-seaters so you could take the damn thing apart.
--
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Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman |
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aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:24 am Post subject: Cowling update |
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Thanks guys. Still doesn't sound as bad as what a Cheetah owner freind of
mine is going through right now with tank repairs...
We shall not cease from exploration.
And at the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive were we started
And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N641HY (at) ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Reply-To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
To: <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Cowling update
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 05:11:17 -0800
The factory should have provided a tapped hole or sealed bolt through the
plug so you could use a hammer puller to remove the plug!
Cliff
---
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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: Cowling update |
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Absolutely! The center console plastic on the 2 seater is a PITA. I've threatened to cut it in two pieces near the spar, rivet in a doubler and attach the two pieces with screws. Would make taking it out much much easier. Another example that engineers should be made to work on the products they design and you might see some improvements in serviceability.
Cliff
[quote] ---
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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: Cowling update |
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I think you were talking about wing access covers, but I had to make a comment about the interior plastic.
[quote] ---
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v1rotate(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: Cowling update |
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Coincidentally, I've been thinking along the same lines the last couple of days. A few months ago I took a less radical step and opened up the ash tray cutout to about two and a half times its original size, threw away the ash tray, and fashioned an aluminum plate that snaps in to cover the new opening. Now I can at least reach in there with a rag or a vacuum attachment and clean out all the crud that collects under the console. However, it WOULD be nice to be able to easily remove the upper half of the console to access the fuel selector valve. I don't think it would be hard to split it just like Cliff describes.
Bill Kelly
[quote] Absolutely! The center console plastic on the 2 seater is a PITA. I've threatened to cut it in two pieces near the spar, rivet in a doubler and attach the two pieces with screws. Would make taking it out much much easier. Another example that engineers should be made to work on the products they design and you might see some improvements in serviceability.
Cliff
[b]
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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:41 am Post subject: Cowling update |
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Bill, what I had in mind was splitting the console plastic pretty much over the spar all the way up both sides and across the top. This would allow the forward piece to be removed upward and forward to eliminate the excess bending of the sides that is now required to remove the one piece part. This results is cracking and damage to the old plastic. There are probably other ways to make the split that would work just as well.
Cliff
[quote] ---
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jkeesaman(at)mac.com
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:29 am Post subject: Cowling update |
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Happy holidays everyone, I mooched a ride up to Auburn to take some measurements off of my airplane and check it out. I snapped a few shots of the outside before the sun sat and posted them below.
http://web.mac.com/jkeesaman/N1976T/Cowling_Spy_Photos!.html
Hopefully soon!
Jeff Keesaman
[quote][b]
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jamey
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: Cowling update |
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Thanks for the pictures Jeff, that sure looks sweet!
Jamey
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Keesaman
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 1:29 AM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Cowling update
Happy holidays everyone,
I mooched a ride up to Auburn to take some measurements off of my airplane and check it out. I snapped a few shots of the outside before the sun sat and posted them below.
http://web.mac.com/jkeesaman/N1976T/Cowling_Spy_Photos!.html
Hopefully soon!
Jeff Keesaman
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
012345678901234
No virus found in this incoming message.
12/17/2007 2:13 PM
12/17/2007 2:13 PM
[quote][b]
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tscott165(at)cableone.net
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: Cowling update |
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Did you have a split nosebowl on that Tiger?
On Dec 18, 2007, at 2:28 AM, Jeffrey Keesaman wrote:
[quote]Happy holidays everyone,Imoocheda ride up to Auburn to take some measurements off of my airplane and check it out. I snapped a few shots of the outside before the sun sat and posted them below.
http://web.mac.com/jkeesaman/N1976T/Cowling_Spy_Photos!.html
Hopefully soon!
Jeff Keesaman
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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[b]
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GrummanDude
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:46 pm Post subject: Cowling update |
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You obviously haven't heard of the cowling before. Go to
www.AuCountry.com
click on TeamGrumman
Visit the cowling page.
--
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Gary
AuCountry Aviation
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jkeesaman(at)mac.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:44 pm Post subject: Cowling update |
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Scott,
The old one was split and on the new one the whole cowling is split into a right and left half.
The old cowling, nose bowl, and baffles will be available after the new one is approved.
Jeff
On Dec 20, 2007, at 6:26 PM, Scott Boyce wrote:
| Quote: | Did you have a split nosebowl on that Tiger?
On Dec 18, 2007, at 2:28 AM, Jeffrey Keesaman wrote:
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