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Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
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pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

I am wondering if any of you are using a split master switch with your Jabiru, and if so, how did you wire the regulator side?



Linda, I thought you guys did this?



I am at the point where I would like to wire this switch and am wondering how I should do it?



Jim!

KC7HFA

Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Southern Oregon

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

I used the split master on my Jabiru 3300.  If I remember correctly I took the yellow wire from the regulator and ran it to one pole of the "Alt" split switch. I then jumped the other pole of the "Alt" switch over to on side of the "Master" switch.  Note:  If the "Alt" switch is not "ON" with the engine running,  you will NOT get a tachometer reading... Needless to say this issue caused me a lot of grief, until I realized I was causing my own problem!  I can verify the exact schematic upon request.

_________________
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
Jabiru 3300
Completed and Flying!~ 150 Plus hours

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Good Morning Ron,

  

 I am absolutely, totally, and completely befuddled as to how the alternator  works on the Jabiru engine. 

  

 When I ask questions, I am told it works just like all other permanent  magnet alternators, but I can find no instructional documentation that will  explain how such alternators are supposed to work. What I seem to get for an  answer to my question is direction as to which wire to hook where. What I want  is instructional material that will tell my how and why it works. It is very  difficult to trouble shot anything which I do not understand.

  

 Can you or anyone else direct me to a source for such education?

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:10:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA"    <kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net>



I used the split master on my Jabiru    3300.  If I remember correctly I took the yellow wire from the regulator    and ran it to one pole of the "Alt" split switch. I then jumped the other pole    of the "Alt" switch over to on side of the "Master" switch.  Note:     If the "Alt" switch is not "ON" with the engine running,  you will NOT    get a tachometer reading... Needless to say this issue caused me a lot of    grief, until I realized I was causing my own problem!  I can verify the    exact schematic upon request.



--------

Ron Asbill

N601ZX - CH-601    XL

Jabiru 3300

Completed and  Flying!~



	






Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

KC7HFA

Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Southern Oregon

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

I learned electronics  many years ago, while in the military.  I just googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC via the regulator...  Hope it helps.

_________________
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
Jabiru 3300
Completed and Flying!~ 150 Plus hours

JOE RONCO

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 31
Location: CENTENNIAL COLORADO

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:47 am Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Chapter 3 in The AeroElectric Connection Book talks about PM alternators.  

   

Joe R  

       

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 9:22 AM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch  

  

  

     

Good Morning Ron,  

    

   

    

I am absolutely, totally, and completely befuddled as to how the alternator works on the Jabiru engine.   

    

   

    

When I ask questions, I am told it works just like all other permanent magnet alternators, but I can find no instructional documentation that will explain how such alternators are supposed to work. What I seem to get for an answer to my question is direction as to which wire to hook where. What I want is instructional material that will tell my how and why it works. It is very difficult to trouble shot anything which I do not understand.  

    

   

    

Can you or anyone else direct me to a source for such education?  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22    

   

      

In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:10:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA" <kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net>

 

 I used the split master on my Jabiru 3300.  If I remember correctly I took the yellow wire from the regulator and ran it to one pole of the "Alt" split switch. I then jumped the other pole of the "Alt" switch over to on side of the "Master" switch.  Note:  If the "Alt" switch is not "ON" with the engine running,  you will NOT get a tachometer reading... Needless to say this issue caused me a lot of grief, until I realized I was causing my own problem!  I can verify the exact schematic upon request.

 

 --------

 Ron Asbill

 N601ZX - CH-601 XL

 Jabiru 3300

 Completed and Flying!~  	
  

  

  



 

         

  

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.  

   	  Quote: 	
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Good Morning Ron,

  

 I graduated from the Aviation Electrician Mate training at Naval Air  Station, Jacksonville, in 1947 (top man in my class by the way) but can  recall no training concerning permanent magnet alternators!<G>

  

 Thanks for the reference. I will get to studying right away.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA"    <kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net>



I learned electronics  many years ago,    while in the military.  I just googled "permanent magnet regulator" and    found this http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a    description of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC    via the regulator...  Hope it helps.



--------

Ron    Asbill

N601ZX - CH-601 XL

Jabiru 3300

Completed and    Flying!~

	






Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Good Morning Once Again Ron,

  

 That information has been very helpful in directing me to some of the  problems I had wondered about. Do you have any idea how sophisticated is the  controlling device associated with the Jabiru?  Sounds like Evinrude has  done quite well!

  

 The diodes I do understand. They were being discussed as the future  when I went through school and I have kept abreast of such development. All of  the principles mentioned are still the same as before, full wave rectification  and all, but I still do not have good handle on the voltage regulation fine  points. It appears as if they just sink excess current. 

  

 Sounds kinda hairy to those of us familiar with power  conservationist attitudes.  My training was in the day of carbon pile  regulators.

  

 Thanks again, I now know that I can reference outboard motors for more  information.

  

 Have you found any documentation that is specific to how Jabiru controls or  regulates the output?

  

 Is there any sort of over voltage protection provided? While I am not  generally a fan of "Crow Bar" protection. this might be used here to good  advantage. It would be a shame to blow several thousand dollars worth of  electronics if a battery connection were to fail.

  

 So much to be learned!!

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA"    <kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net>



I learned electronics  many years ago,    while in the military.  I just googled "permanent magnet regulator" and    found this http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a    description of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC    via the regulator...  Hope it helps.



--------

Ron    Asbill

N601ZX - CH-601  XL

	






Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:52 am Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Good Afternoon Joe,

  

 Gad! I should have looked! Thanks Joe.

  

 Once again, I will have to call upon 'Lectric Bob for my rescue.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:48:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  joe(at)halzel.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Chapter 3 in The    AeroElectric Connection Book talks about PM alternators.   

    

Joe    R 	






Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

There is a schematic of the regulator internals in the Jabiru manual.  

   

-- Craig  

       

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 10:47 AM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch  

  

  

     

Good Morning Once Again Ron,  

    

   

    

That information has been very helpful in directing me to some of the problems I had wondered about. Do you have any idea how sophisticated is the controlling device associated with the Jabiru?  Sounds like Evinrude has done quite well!  

    

   

    

The diodes I do understand. They were being discussed as the future when I went through school and I have kept abreast of such development. All of the principles mentioned are still the same as before, full wave rectification and all, but I still do not have good handle on the voltage regulation fine points. It appears as if they just sink excess current.   

    

   

    

Sounds kinda hairy to those of us familiar with power conservationist attitudes.  My training was in the day of carbon pile regulators.  

    

   

    

Thanks again, I now know that I can reference outboard motors for more information.  

    

   

    

Have you found any documentation that is specific to how Jabiru controls or regulates the output?  

    

   

    

Is there any sort of over voltage protection provided? While I am not generally a fan of "Crow Bar" protection. this might be used here to good advantage. It would be a shame to blow several thousand dollars worth of electronics if a battery connection were to fail.  

    

   

    

So much to be learned!!  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22    

   

      

In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA" <kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net>

 

 I learned electronics  many years ago, while in the military.  I just googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC via the regulator...  Hope it helps.

 

 --------

 Ron Asbill

 N601ZX - CH-601 XL  	
  

  

  



 

         

  

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List 	
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Good Afternoon Craig,

  

 I did read that, but all it says is that if the voltage gets too high, it  cuts off!

  

 No description of how it is supposed to work, how it cuts off and of what  happens to the current flow and operating temperatures when it is cut off.

  

 What I am looking for is an explanation of the theory and the actual  procedures used. I read Bob Nuckolls' explanation and the one so kindly provided  by Ron about outboard motors. The most descriptive thus far has been the  Evinrude material. 

  

 I still have not seen anything that tells us how the current and/or voltage  is regulated or controlled. It appears that crude systems just sink it to ground  and generate heat doing so while Evinrude has seemingly found a way to mitigate  the disadvantages of doing that.

  

 Still searching for the "Rest Of The Story"!

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 3/22/2008 12:27:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  craig(at)craigandjean.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     

There    is a schematic of the regulator internals in the Jabiru    manual.   

    

--    Craig   

 	






Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

Peter H

Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 197

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Bob,  

You are right about the excess current it is taken to earth at the base of the regulator which should be mounted on a heat sink panel. AC output from the PM alternator varies with RPM and the excess energy is bled off to earth during the rectification/regulation process.  

It sounds a bit primitive but it is simple and effective. Over voltage protection is worthwile in case the regulator burns out.  

Peter H  

         

  

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Sunday, 23 March 2008 2:47 AM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch  

  

     

Good Morning Once Again Ron,  

    

   

    

That information has been very helpful in directing me to some of the problems I had wondered about. Do you have any idea how sophisticated is the controlling device associated with the Jabiru?  Sounds like Evinrude has done quite well!  

    

   

    

The diodes I do understand. They were being discussed as the future when I went through school and I have kept abreast of such development. All of the principles mentioned are still the same as before, full wave rectification and all, but I still do not have good handle on the voltage regulation fine points. It appears as if they just sink excess current.   

    

   

    

Sounds kinda hairy to those of us familiar with power conservationist attitudes.  My training was in the day of carbon pile regulators.  

    

   

    

Thanks again, I now know that I can reference outboard motors for more information.  

    

   

    

Have you found any documentation that is specific to how Jabiru controls or regulates the output?  

    

   

    

Is there any sort of over voltage protection provided? While I am not generally a fan of "Crow Bar" protection. this might be used here to good advantage. It would be a shame to blow several thousand dollars worth of electronics if a battery connection were to fail.  

    

   

    

So much to be learned!!  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22    

   

      

In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA" <kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net>

 

 I learned electronics  many years ago, while in the military.  I just googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC via the regulator...  Hope it helps.

 

 --------

 Ron Asbill

 N601ZX - CH-601 XL  	
  

  

  



 

         

  

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List 	
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Good Evening Peter,

  

 Thanks for the information. 

  

 Do most Jabiru operators use some sort of over voltage protection? Is there  a common method that has been successful?

  

 As I am sure you can tell, my knowledge in this area is woefully  inadequate.

  

 Are there any good sources of data that I can study?

  

 If a contactor was opened by a crowbar or other over voltage protection  such that it would save the electronics, would the alternator still be damaged  or is there some modality that would cause it to reduce it's output?

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 3/22/2008 7:51:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Bob,   

You are right about    the excess current it is taken to earth at the base of the regulator which    should be mounted on a heat sink panel. AC output from the PM alternator    varies with RPM and the excess energy is bled off to earth during the    rectification/regulation process.   

It sounds a bit    primitive but it is simple and effective. Over voltage protection is    worthwhile in case the regulator burns out.   

Peter    H   

 	






Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Good Evening Ron,

  

 I will contact Bill on Monday. Great thought!

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 3/22/2008 9:08:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,    



Use the B&C over voltage protection system (504-1 PM-OV) designed    for permanent magnet alternators. See http://www.bandc.biz/PmOVdesc.html



Ron

	






Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

wypaul

Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 24

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

lectric Bob is the man for these question.  I am using Bob's crowbar setup for over voltage protection with the Jabiru but flew behind a Revmaster for 200 hrs. without it.  Ya don't need it tell you do.  Bob's friends at B & C will be another good source of info. 



http://www.bandc.biz/parts.html



Paul

_________________
Paul Spackman
Q-2 Jabiru 3300

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

That’s where the confusion starts.  If it has a permanent magnet it is called a generator or a magneto. If this is the case you you can shut off the output by switching the heavy wire that goes from the magneto to the battery.  Generators and magnetos are somewhat limited in their capacity to generate electrical power so over voltage is not generally a consideration.  

   

Alternators, instead of spinning a large magnet inside a bunch of coils, spins an electromagnet instead.  By varying the voltage hitting the electromagnet on a wire marked F for field or field coil, the output of the alternator can be varied... the more power delivered to the field coil through the F connector the more current produced by the alternator.  The regulator controls this power output.  The idea is two fold...  First the current in the field coil is relatively small so a small current can control a much larger output current so the large contactors that used to be found in early cars and trucks are not needed.  If too much current is fed to the F connector the alternator can actually go into overvoltage...  This usually turns on a little light and at the same time chops the power to the field coil so the output of the alternator drops to 0.  

   

Either way a switch designed to take the maximum current output of the alternator or generator can be placed in the larger power wire between the alternator and the battery or main buss depending on how your plane is wired.   

   

Alternators all produce alternating current AC which needs to be turned into direct current DC.  This is usually done through a little device called a rectifier bridge.  This bridge is constructed by four considerably large diodes.  Some alternators have one or two rectifier bridges built right into them.  The reason a shut off switch in the large wire is a good idea is encase you burn out one or more of the diodes and short out your battery.... Actually a circuit breaker is also a good idea.  

   

The F lead, a ground and possibly a voltage sensing lead are generally connected via a plug in with a specific shape for your alternator..... The power output on the alternator is generally a lug with a nut to hold the wire on the lug and sometimes a plastic insulator around the lug.  

   

If your generating device only has one wire coming form it when it is a permanent magnet type and the voltage regulator then will be a set of contacts which are spring loaded and make and break the charging cycles.  Such generators generally are designed to produce DC without the use of a rectifier bridge..  

   

Noel  

   

   

       

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 12:52 PM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch  

  

  

     

Good Morning Ron,  

    

   

    

I am absolutely, totally, and completely befuddled as to how the alternator works on the Jabiru engine.   

    

   

    

When I ask questions, I am told it works just like all other permanent magnet alternators, but I can find no instructional documentation that will explain how such alternators are supposed to work. What I seem to get for an answer to my question is direction as to which wire to hook where. What I want is instructional material that will tell my how and why it works. It is very difficult to trouble shot anything which I do not understand.  

    

   

    

Can you or anyone else direct me to a source for such education?  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22    

   

      

In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:10:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA" <kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net>

 

 I used the split master on my Jabiru 3300.  If I remember correctly I took the yellow wire from the regulator and ran it to one pole of the "Alt" split switch. I then jumped the other pole of the "Alt" switch over to on side of the "Master" switch.  Note:  If the "Alt" switch is not "ON" with the engine running,  you will NOT get a tachometer reading... Needless to say this issue caused me a lot of grief, until I realized I was causing my own problem!  I can verify the exact schematic upon request.

 

 --------

 Ron Asbill

 N601ZX - CH-601 XL

 Jabiru 3300

 Completed and Flying!~  	
  

  

  



 

         

  

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List 	
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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Thanks Paul

  

 Do Not Archive

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 3/22/2008 9:40:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  loadout(at)bresnan.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "wypaul"    <loadout(at)bresnan.net>



lectric Bob is the man for these    question.  I am using Bob's crowbar setup for over voltage protection    with the Jabiru but flew behind a Revmaster for 200 hrs. without it.  Ya    don't need it tell you do.  Bob's friends at B & C will be another    good source of info.    



http://www.bandc.biz/parts.html



Paul

	






Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Thanks Noel.

  

 We're gaining on it!

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

 Do not  Archive

 



  

  In a message dated 3/22/2008 9:46:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Thatâ€™s where the confusion    starts.  If it has a permanent magnet it is called a generator or a    magneto. If this is the case you you can shut off the output by switching the    heavy wire that goes from the magneto to the battery.  Generators and    magnetos are somewhat limited in their capacity to generate electrical power    so over voltage is not generally a consideration.   

    

Alternators, instead of    spinning a large magnet inside a bunch of coils, spins an electromagnet    instead.  By varying the voltage hitting the electromagnet on a wire    marked F for field or field coil, the output of the alternator can be    varied... the more power delivered to the field coil through the F connector    the more current produced by the alternator.  The regulator controls this    power output.  The idea is two fold...  First the current in the    field coil is relatively small so a small current can control a much larger    output current so the large contactors that used to be found in early cars and    trucks are not needed.  If too much current is fed to the F connector the    alternator can actually go into overvoltage...  This usually turns on a    little light and at the same time chops the power to the field coil so the    output of the alternator drops to 0.   

    

Either way a switch designed    to take the maximum current output of the alternator or generator can    be placed in the larger power wire between the alternator and the battery or    main buss depending on how your plane is wired.    

    

Alternators all produce    alternating current AC which needs to be turned into direct current DC.     This is usually done through a little device called a rectifier bridge.     This bridge is constructed by four considerably large diodes.  Some    alternators have one or two rectifier bridges built right into them.  The    reason a shut off switch in the large wire is a good idea is encase you burn    out one or more of the diodes and short out your battery.... Actually a    circuit breaker is also a good idea.   

    

The F lead, a ground and    possibly a voltage sensing lead are generally connected via a plug in with a    specific shape for your alternator..... The power output on the alternator is    generally a lug with a nut to hold the wire on the lug and sometimes a plastic    insulator around the lug.   

    

If your generating device    only has one wire coming form it when it is a permanent magnet type and the    voltage regulator then will be a set of contacts which are spring loaded and    make and break the charging cycles.  Such generators generally are    designed to produce DC without the use of a rectifier    bridge..   

    

Noel 	




Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

I just googled jabiru Schematic and came up with this: (top of thepage!)  

   

www.usjabiru.com/images/pdf/manuals/new%20stuff/3300HL-IM.pdf  

   

Everything you wanted to know about Jabiru engines and more besides... Check out page 54 for a circuit diagram.  That diagram shows the output to the battery being switched ( Master) and protected by a fuse link.  The feed to the main buss is not switched or protected....  I’d recommend a breaker of at least the capacity of the alternator.  Funny on page 57 they say to hook up the battery direct...  I don’t htink they looked at their own schematic and that’s what I’d go by.  

   

According to page 56 you can put a switch on the red wire that comes from pin #5 on the voltage regulator and then feed the output of that switch to the main buss.  

A word of caution here the solid state ( lots of diodes and transistors) rectifier/regulator may not be able to stand switching the alternator on and off during normal flight so save turning off the line to the main buss as an emergency procedure.  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 2:17 PM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch  

  

  

     

Good Morning Once Again Ron,  

    

   

    

That information has been very helpful in directing me to some of the problems I had wondered about. Do you have any idea how sophisticated is the controlling device associated with the Jabiru?  Sounds like Evinrude has done quite well!  

    

   

    

The diodes I do understand. They were being discussed as the future when I went through school and I have kept abreast of such development. All of the principles mentioned are still the same as before, full wave rectification and all, but I still do not have good handle on the voltage regulation fine points. It appears as if they just sink excess current.   

    

   

    

Sounds kinda hairy to those of us familiar with power conservationist attitudes.  My training was in the day of carbon pile regulators.  

    

   

    

Thanks again, I now know that I can reference outboard motors for more information.  

    

   

    

Have you found any documentation that is specific to how Jabiru controls or regulates the output?  

    

   

    

Is there any sort of over voltage protection provided? While I am not generally a fan of "Crow Bar" protection. this might be used here to good advantage. It would be a shame to blow several thousand dollars worth of electronics if a battery connection were to fail.  

    

   

    

So much to be learned!!  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22    

   

      

In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA" <kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net>

 

 I learned electronics  many years ago, while in the military.  I just googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC via the regulator...  Hope it helps.

 

 --------

 Ron Asbill

 N601ZX - CH-601 XL  	
  

  

  



 

         

  

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.  

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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

On the left side of the schematic on page 54 (?) you see the basic rectifier bridge.  The right hand side has a number of transistors which act as valves to keep the output of the generator (alternator) consistent.  The wire shown running across the top and down to the master switch is the one that tells the transistors how much to turn on or off.  All that stuff is inside the regulator and is not adjustable.  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 3:10 PM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch  

  

  

     

Good Afternoon Craig,  

    

   

    

I did read that, but all it says is that if the voltage gets too high, it cuts off!  

    

   

    

No description of how it is supposed to work, how it cuts off and of what happens to the current flow and operating temperatures when it is cut off.  

    

   

    

What I am looking for is an explanation of the theory and the actual procedures used. I read Bob Nuckolls' explanation and the one so kindly provided by Ron about outboard motors. The most descriptive thus far has been the Evinrude material.   

    

   

    

I still have not seen anything that tells us how the current and/or voltage is regulated or controlled. It appears that crude systems just sink it to ground and generate heat doing so while Evinrude has seemingly found a way to mitigate the disadvantages of doing that.  

    

   

    

Still searching for the "Rest Of The Story"!  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22    

   

      

In a message dated 3/22/2008 12:27:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time, craig(at)craigandjean.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

There is a schematic of the regulator internals in the Jabiru manual.  

   

-- Craig  

   	
  

  

  



 

         

  

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.  

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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Nothing with a turbine would have one!  They also use variable displacement pumps to keep their alternators turning at a constant speed.  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 1:26 PM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch  

  

  

     

Good Morning Ron,  

    

   

    

I graduated from the Aviation Electrician Mate training at Naval Air Station, Jacksonville, in 1947 (top man in my class by the way) but can recall no training concerning permanent magnet alternators!<G>  

    

   

    

Thanks for the reference. I will get to studying right away.  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22    

   

      

In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA" <kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net>

 

 I learned electronics  many years ago, while in the military.  I just googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC via the regulator...  Hope it helps.

 

 --------

 Ron Asbill

 N601ZX - CH-601 XL

 Jabiru 3300

 Completed and Flying!~  	
  

  

  



 

         

  

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.  

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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

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