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Polish, Paint OR not
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jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

I understand that 6061-T6 is very corrosion resistant.  Therefore, I only painted the fiberglass parts, invasion stripes and a little other cosmetic painting.  I actually like the look of the "raw", unpolished aluminum.  Judge for yourself.

 

 Jay in Dallas

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naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

Jay-

     The question is, what will it  look like down the road, and in less than ideal conditions like you experience  in Texas? You know I love the looks of your project, but you haven't   experienced the snow and other crap you get in the Northern areas. I'll have to  send you a picture of what my car looks like after they start applying calcium  chloride this winter.

                                                        Bill

 [quote]   ---

z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

Another thought (or thoughts). Is your aircraft hangared? If so, it will be 

exposed to the worst of the environment only a small portion of the year. 



Look at the WWII aircraft that are still around. Assuming they were properly 

cared for, how does the skin look?



I'm a bit biased, as I'm still considering minimizing the amount of paint. My 

reasons are cost and weight.



On Tuesday 04 November 2008 18:49, Bill Naumuk wrote:

[quote] Jay-

     The question is, what will it look like down the road, and in less than

 ideal conditions like you experience in Texas? You know I love the looks of

 your project, but you haven't  experienced the snow and other crap you get

 in the Northern areas. I'll have to send you a picture of what my car looks

 like after they start applying calcium chloride this winter. Bill

   ---

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

Jay,



    Nice looking plane.  I like the look as well as the minimum work. I 

consider my plane to be more of a tool than anything else and the raw 

aluminum looks appropriate.  Have you experimented with any finish, wax or 

any high tech clear protectant, on the raw aluminum?



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"Hope for the best,

but prepare for the worst."



do not archive



---

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

P.S. to my previous post.



Does anyone have any experience with stuff like Corrosion X or AC 50 on 

airframe joints.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"Hope for the best,

but prepare for the worst."



do not archive

---

brianrobertwood(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

Must be from seeing so much aluminum all my working life, but I am partial  

to bare aluminum planes, with just accent stripes. like the lightning  

strikes on old Luscombs. It just looks right for a no-nonsense machine.  

And it saves quite a few pounds. Trouble is, we have been conditioned to  

equate "pretty" and "Shiny". Aluminum oxide is a protective coating, it is  

impervious. But it isn't shiny. You polish it off to make it "Shiny  

pretty" and you just open up the aluminum to oxidation. So keep it well  

waxed.



Just one old geezer's personal opinion.

Brian in Brazil



Em Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:01:43 -0200, raymondj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>  

escreveu:



[quote] 

 <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>



 Jay,



     Nice looking plane.  I like the look as well as the minimum work. I  

 consider my plane to be more of a tool than anything else and the raw  

 aluminum looks appropriate.  Have you experimented with any finish, wax  

 or any high tech clear protectant, on the raw aluminum?



 Raymond Julian

 Kettle River, MN



 "Hope for the best,

 but prepare for the worst."



 do not archive



 ---

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

Raymond,

 

 Thanks.  I too was building a flying tool, not a hanger queen nor a beauty contestant. But I did want it to be a fun thing too, thus the military look.

 

 No I have not experimented with wax nor a clear coat. If I begin to see signs of surface corrosion, I will certainly entertain one of those.  But, here in North Texas, we don't have any salty sea air nor any influence from salting snowy roads.  

 

 I finished my wings and stored them outside, on a wooden rack covered with a tarp.  When I brought them inside to do the painting, I found a lot of surface corrosion.  It occurred mainly where the tarp touched the metal. It took the better part of a month to get rid of it.  They probably would have fared better if I had left them uncovered.  I think the corrosion formed when the tarp actually kept the contact area moist.  Uncovered, the moisture would have mostly run off and the rest just evaporated. 

 

 Jay

 

   

 

   

 

 --

brianrobertwood(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

I treated a few airplanes with AC 50 a decade or so ago. It really got  

into the lap joints, It was weeping out six months later, grabbing all the  

dust in the area. People loved it till they saw how much dust it held.  

Then the pilots didn't love it anymore, but it seemed to work as  

advertised.



Brian in (sometimes very dusty) Brazil.



Em Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:18:24 -0200, raymondj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>  

escreveu:



[quote] 

 <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>



 P.S. to my previous post.



 Does anyone have any experience with stuff like Corrosion X or AC 50 on  

 airframe joints.



 Raymond Julian

 Kettle River, MN



 "Hope for the best,

 but prepare for the worst."



 do not archive

 ---

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

Brian,



    Was the dust easy to remove?  Were the pilot's objections mostly to the 

appearance, or were there other issues?  Was the dust an issue in moving 

parts?



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"Hope for the best,

but prepare for the worst."



do not archive

---

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Polish, Paint OR not

ACF-50 is cool stuff, put a drop of it on something and it takes on a life of

it's own and climbs everything in sight, and get's on everything in sight. It

will preven corrosion, but you might end up hating it later. If you want

something for joints, etc. Something like CRC Corrosion Shield is nicer

as it dries and forms a film, and doesn't leave the oily mess.



Jeff

z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

On Wednesday 05 November 2008 13:18, raymondj wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 P.S. to my previous post.



 Does anyone have any experience with stuff like Corrosion X or AC 50 on

 airframe joints.



I'm guessing that AC50 is ACF-50. My wife discovered it in the early 90's, and 
	


suggested we try it. I've been extremely happy with it. 



Applied in a light mist, it will cover everything, and creep into hidden 

places. Since my initial usage, I've sprayed it inside the wings and fuselage 

of the Cherokee we owned. It coated the entire surface after a week or so, 

and appeared to do a good job of preventing corrosion. However, it is hard to 

know if something is preventing corrosion, since the only evidence is 

something that doesn't happen.



One thing that needs to be considered is that paint won't bond to metal that's 

been treated in the last year or so. Thus, it's something that's probably 

best used after the aircraft is complete and painted.



A few years ago, I interviewed the vice-president of ACF-50 on Sun 'N Fun 

Radio (disclaimer: yes, I was given some free product, although I didn't 

request it). If I remember correctly, she told me that ACF-50 is a Canadian 

product, and Corrosion X is a U.S. product, and that Corrosion X meets a 

Mil-Spec, and ACF-50 does not. 



She also said that it bonds with water, helping prevent corrosion at the 

source. I think she also told me the two products were the same or similar 

chemically.



I note that at Aircraft Spruce, ACF-50 is about $1.06/oz in a spray can, and 

Corrosion X is .95/oz in a spray can.

-- 

==============================================

Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.

=================================================

               Jim B. Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

           Instrument Rated Pilot

     General Radio Telephone Certificate

=================================================

brianrobertwood(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

No, it was purely cosmetic. The only issue would be if you plan on  

painting the aircraft in the next year or so. The oil will keep weeping,  

causing poor paint adhesion. But as far as keeping corrosion at bay, well,  

it is hard to prove a negative, but I think it helped. At least we felt  

like we were doing something.



Brian in Brazil



Em Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:50:31 -0200, raymondj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>  

escreveu:



[quote] 

 <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>



 Brian,



     Was the dust easy to remove?  Were the pilot's objections mostly to  

 the appearance, or were there other issues?  Was the dust an issue in  

 moving parts?



 Raymond Julian

 Kettle River, MN



 "Hope for the best,

 but prepare for the worst."



 do not archive

 ---

brianrobertwood(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

OOps, I forgot, a good wash job and it was good as new. At least till the  

oil weeped out again. We have two season here, rainy, and dusty. It was  

only during dusty season that we saw the oil.



Brian in Brazil



Em Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:50:31 -0200, raymondj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>  

escreveu:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>



 Brian,



     Was the dust easy to remove?  Were the pilot's objections mostly to  

 the appearance, or were there other issues?  Was the dust an issue in  

 moving parts?



-----------------------------------------------------

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: Re: Polish, Paint OR not

CRC Corrosion Shield, ACF-50, and Corrosion X all meet the exact same

Mil-Spec which is MIL-C-81309 III, they all do essentially the same thing.

The Big difference is whether you want an oily mess or a dry film after

they dry.



81309 type III is primarily used for avionics, and light corrosion

protection for things like gear downlock switches, etc. in the military, at 

least when I was in. A more long term protective for hardware like

fasteners, etc. Is CRC Corrosion Shell.



I'm not a CRC rep, but their products are in my experience the exact 

same products the military is using. ACF-50 and Corrosion-X are not.

Although they all meet the same Mil-Spec.



Regards,

Jeff

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

Thanks to all who replied.   My aircraft is being built for off field 

operation and it's home field will be a cow pasture so I won't mind a little 

dust.  I will look into the CRC products, the dry film seems like it might 

be better in some applications.



Thanks again,

Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"Hope for the best,

but prepare for the worst."



do not archive

---

FlyingMonkey

Joined: 07 Nov 2008
Posts: 4

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: Polish, Paint OR not

Nice looking machine in the opening post.  Thought crossed my mind that if the aircraft is left bare for aesthetics-might be an idea to PAINT those portions , with aluminum colored paint......to maintain the look , and add corrosion protection.



Two good sources on aircraft corrosion

Death By Corrosion



and 

Fairly long, but worth-reading FAA pdf



Bare aluminum good products:

LPS3



or

Dinol AV5



Another way they're starting to experiment with more-to protect ( in particular unpainted ) aircraft-sacrificial anodes. Although they're putting small sacrificial anodes ( a few ounces ) in the aircraft body ( although this wouldn't work in military aircraft ( built of metals in the same galvanic number as the anode=no current flow)   I wonder why a 12 pound magnesium sacrificial anode , in a five gallon metal pail of water, which is coppered to ground, and also having one light wire from anode to an all aluminum aircraft,wouldn't also induce a 5 millivolt  current flow-blocking the aluminum corrosion, and inducing the sacrificial anode to corrode instead ( while the aircraft is tethered ) -just like I do with buried water valves.....

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:16 am Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

Interesting thought on the home base sacrificial anode. I may setup a trial 

next spring if I get around to it.  Hang just a piece of al on a string and 

another one attached to a magnesium stake driven into the ground.  Very 

interesting!



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"Hope for the best,

but prepare for the worst."



do not archive



---

z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

Something that seems to be ignored a bit is that corrosion occurs not just on 

the outside skin of the aircraft, but also on the inside. No matter what kind 

of paint or similar material is used on the outside, the inside still needs 

protection.



It doesn't seem much more difficult to not put a decorative coating everywhere 

on the exterior, and to do the protection on both the inside and the outside 

surfaces at the same time. I normally did the interior surfaces of my 

Cherokee during annual each year. I'd probably do the same thing for the 

601XL.



I'll admit I'm biased, though. I'd already pretty much made up my mind to 

minimize the decorative coating on the outside.

==============================================

Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.

=================================================

               Jim B. Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

           Instrument Rated Pilot

     General Radio Telephone Certificate

=================================================

K Dilks

Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 108
Location: UK

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Polish, Paint OR not

After looking at all the nice shiny 601xl s on the web I have to ask . 

Do you polish under the Fuzz and wings  ? and how do you polish right up to the edge of a painted area?

 How much does the paint weight on the outside on a decent paint job?



.  Like the idea of less cost and weight too but the thought of having to grovel on the ground polishing under neath does not float my boat.



 Thanks

Kevin

_________________
Back home .................

ideaz1(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: Polish, Paint OR not

masking tape will protect the paint to polish next to it.

My Cessna 150 POH lists paint at 16lbs. so you can probably figure about 14 

for an XL with average amount of trim paint (that being a second coat in 

those areas).

Dirk



---

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