Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - A question on composits

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

A question on composits

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject: A question on composits

Hi Karel,



I was wondering now that you have put a little more time on your

airplane are you still happy with your modification?  Also, I am

curious about a few other things.



- Did you do this modification from the beginning, or after you had

been flying for a while. If yes, do you have any before / after

comparisons to share.

- How do you find this modification works on during a long taxi on a

hot summers day.

- Is the size of the inlet the same or smaller than the original

Europa design.  If smaller, can you give me your new square area ?

- It looks like your new inlet does not project as far forward as the

original Europa design, can you give me some measurements.

- Did you make your modification using Epoxy or vinyl-ester resin ?

- Is there any particular reason that you did not make large radius's

on the edges of the inlet.



I have two problems to solve, mine over heats if I have a long taxi

(CHT), or if Tower has me standing at the hold short line too long.

The other issue is that the aircraft (914) is capable to climb at more

that 1000 feet per minute all the way to 10,000 ~ 12,000', however the

oil overheats if I do more that 500' per minute.



If you have any more photos other that the 3 you  shared on the forum,

I'd appreciate it if you could send them on.



Thanks for indulging my long list of questions.



Regards,  Paul

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 3:28 PM, karelvranken <karelvranken(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Jeff,

 In attachment my concept of cowling and inner radiator duct.

 Best regards,

 Karel Vranken

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 650

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:15 am Post subject: Re: A question on composits

Paul,



There are several threads on this forum about cowl mods.  The two most comprehensive are:



Nov 30, 2006, Cooling Diffuser



Dec 01, 2006, Perfect Cooling Diffuser



More photos of Karel's cowl there.



Jim Butcher

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

karelvranken(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject: A question on composits

Paul,

You don't know perhaps that I was so lucky to find an Europa builder in my 

village at ten minutes walking, without knowing him before I came back from 

Kirbymoorside with the first Kit stage. Second convenience was that we 

choose the same configuration. Mono XS, Rotax 912 ULS, Airmaster CS etc... 

My friend was already one year building and afterwards he said he was making 

the rough copy for me. So I was witness of the cooling problems he had 

before I was that far and so I made several decisions from the beginning.

If you are aware of the fact that under the cowling airflow is submitted to 

the same aerodynamic flow rules as anywhere than you may consider the 

cowling design as very poor.

First came the fish mouth opening. By bringing the entrance farther from the 

center of the propeller you can benefit of a greather prop wash.

Second object were the radiators. The cubic block radiator for the coolant 

even with the gap underneath filled up wasn't a technical tour de force. I 

used a radiator with the same contents but half as thick to fill up the 

disponible section. The oil radiator stayed on its original place but 

received a thermostatic valve.

The exhaust system was keracoated in order to exchange less heath under the 

cowling.

Finally after studying the shape of the air entrance (courtesy to Gilles 

Thesee and others) I decided to make a kind of pitot tube profile where the 

smallest section was half the area of the radiator surface. Only outside air 

is passing trough the radiators.

Once you have sufficient air entering all the openings in the cowling, you 

also must work on the excit. Here Terry Seaver learnt me a lot to guide the 

air out and by trial and error I made the final shape after measuring 

temperatures on different places under the cowling. Therefor I used the 

epoxy and cloth that I had reinforced by a layer of carbon/kevlar. No 

particular reason for the radiuses; let's call it personal styling.

The results are as follows: Normal temperatures for coolant (Evans) 110°C at 

sea level and 95° for oil. Note that the oil is not cooled only by the 

radiator but also by the crankcase and the reservoir, this latter placed 

behind the naca scoop. In hot summer 40°C the temperatures will raise up to 

120°C for the coolant and 105°C for the oil while taxiing and in TO on full 

power and climbing. Even though this is temporarily until reaching cruise 

level. If at greater altitudes the coolant will slow down a bit, the oil 

stays on 90°C due to the thermostatic action.

Now it is difficult to say: copy my installation and you will have the same 

results. With the 914 you have a different configuration and therefore I 

have no experience.

I wish you good experimental building,

Karel Vranken #447 F-PKRL 203 hours.

PS I am revalidating from a surgical intervention at the right shoulder. At 

a better moment I will send you some more pic's.



---

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:25 pm Post subject: A question on composits

Hi Karel,



Thanks for your detailed reply.  I look forward to seeing some more

photographs when you have recovered.  I'd be interested in seeing what

yo have done on the exit side.



I was also interested to hear that you changed the radiator.  If I

understand it correctly, you retained the original water cooler, but

purchased a different oil cooler, is that correct ?  Could you give me

a bit more information on this ?  If you happen to have a WEB site, or

some technical details, that would be helpful.



Thanks again,  paul



On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 3:50 PM, karelvranken <karelvranken(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

[quote] 



 Paul,

 You don't know perhaps that I was so lucky to find an Europa builder in my

 village at ten minutes walking, without knowing him before I came back from

 Kirbymoorside with the first Kit stage. Second convenience was that we

 choose the same configuration. Mono XS, Rotax 912 ULS, Airmaster CS etc...

 My friend was already one year building and afterwards he said he was making

 the rough copy for me. So I was witness of the cooling problems he had

 before I was that far and so I made several decisions from the beginning.

 If you are aware of the fact that under the cowling airflow is submitted to

 the same aerodynamic flow rules as anywhere than you may consider the

 cowling design as very poor.

 First came the fish mouth opening. By bringing the entrance farther from the

 center of the propeller you can benefit of a greather prop wash.

 Second object were the radiators. The cubic block radiator for the coolant

 even with the gap underneath filled up wasn't a technical tour de force. I

 used a radiator with the same contents but half as thick to fill up the

 disponible section. The oil radiator stayed on its original place but

 received a thermostatic valve.

 The exhaust system was keracoated in order to exchange less heath under the

 cowling.

 Finally after studying the shape of the air entrance (courtesy to Gilles

 Thesee and others) I decided to make a kind of pitot tube profile where the

 smallest section was half the area of the radiator surface. Only outside air

 is passing trough the radiators.

 Once you have sufficient air entering all the openings in the cowling, you

 also must work on the excit. Here Terry Seaver learnt me a lot to guide the

 air out and by trial and error I made the final shape after measuring

 temperatures on different places under the cowling. Therefor I used the

 epoxy and cloth that I had reinforced by a layer of carbon/kevlar. No

 particular reason for the radiuses; let's call it personal styling.

 The results are as follows: Normal temperatures for coolant (Evans) 110°C at

 sea level and 95° for oil. Note that the oil is not cooled only by the

 radiator but also by the crankcase and the reservoir, this latter placed

 behind the naca scoop. In hot summer 40°C the temperatures will raise up to

 120°C for the coolant and 105°C for the oil while taxiing and in TO on full

 power and climbing. Even though this is temporarily until reaching cruise

 level. If at greater altitudes the coolant will slow down a bit, the oil

 stays on 90°C due to the thermostatic action.

 Now it is difficult to say: copy my installation and you will have the same

 results. With the 914 you have a different configuration and therefore I

 have no experience.

 I wish you good experimental building,

 Karel Vranken #447 F-PKRL 203 hours.

 PS I am revalidating from a surgical intervention at the right shoulder. At

 a better moment I will send you some more pic's.



 ---

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum