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jdmcbean(at)cableone.net
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:45 am    Post subject: New Member Reply with quote

Welcome to the List... Get ready to have lots of fun.. just remember.. "It's
not how fast you get there.. it's how fun you get there !"

Snip- Consider that in the old days every pilot learned in a tail wheel
airplane-

This has been an argument of mine for a lot of years... Heck early Tail
Draggers were just that...draggers they had a skid on the back not a wheel.
We had a program when I was teaching primary more often, you started your
lessons in a Champ and pretty much worked up to the solo stage. Once soloed
we transitioned over to the C150.. Now, while the Kitfox is no Champ,
learning to fly in a Kitfox is not as bad as some will make it out to be.
DO NOT GET PRE-CONCEIVED NOTIONS about someone else's issues. I have taught
super students that could solo in 4 hours while others took more. Sometimes
students bring bad habits with them and don't even know it.

Now... I do not agree that it is watermelons and bananas... typically the
instructors make it that way. If one is taught correctly (keyword) in the
tri-gear then the transition is not that difficult but if they fly for
several years they usually create bad habits... (feet flat on the floor)
That is what makes the transitions more difficult... No question that
initial training in a tail wheel is beneficial.

Lets consider something else... The instructor pool... Some students learn
to fly in spite of their instructor... Teachers can only teach what they
know and most new instructors today have never even been in a tail wheel..
let alone have much experience in them. Heck even for the instructor that
wants to really sink his/her teeth into the tail wheel will have a hard time
finding one to rent. We can thank the insurance companies for that.

Something else to consider.... And rarely talked about or thought about...
What Specific Model Kitfox ?

Kitfox Model 1, 2 or 3 ?
Kitfox IV 1050 or Kitfox IV-1200 or XL or Lite
Kitfox Series 5, 6 or 7
Tube gear or Spring gear
Speedster Wing or Long Wing

When referring to the characteristics of the Kitfox are these important
issues to consider ? You bet they are. Did you know that there is more
adverse yaw in the Kitfox Model IV-1050 then in the Kitfox Model IV-1200 ?
How about that there is more adverse yaw in the most Series 6 then in the
Series 7. The handling is greatly improved from the tube gear to the spring
gear.

One thing to always consider is the insurance... It is more expensive to
insure a tail dragger then a tri-gear.

Due to insurance reasons (training aircraft are very expensive) we do not
have a tail dragger yet to train with... We hope to find a Model IV that we
can use for training.. Before anyone jumps on that issue.. we have a waiver
to offer training in a Kitfox.. just waiting for the right aircraft.

Bottom Line... Find a QUALIFIED instructor and get ready to have lots of
fun... wish I had the time to come to Alaska for awhile.. I would gladly
fly with you. Values are very condition based... Is it a IV-1200 or 1050 ?
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"


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debrun26(at)juno.com
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject: New Member Reply with quote

WOW, your reply was the most encouraging of all. I don't know which kitfox it is but it has a gross weight of 1200lbs... so if the 1200 comes from the gross weight, then it's a 1200. Please keep in touch and plan your trip to Ak and you can teach me to be a pro pilot. I don't know much terminology since I don't even start ground school till summer. I REEEEALY want to get good fast on the tail dragger since I want to fy on skiis next winter. I've got the bird hunting bug and want to take my springer spaniel and wife to find birds each Saturday next winter. It will be a 100-130 mile flight, landing on snow. This kitfox is for sale for $32,000. Is this fare or should I offer in the $25,000 range? It has 100hrs total time. Thanks, Layne
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

WOW, your reply was the most encouraging of all. I don't know which kitfox it is but it has a gross weight of 1200lbs... so if the 1200 comes from the gross weight, then it's a 1200. Please keep in touch and plan your trip to Ak and you can teach me to be a pro pilot. I don't know much terminology since I don't even start ground school till summer. IREEEEALY want to get good fast on the tail dragger since I want to fy on skiis next winter. I've got the bird hunting bug and want to take my springer spaniel and wife to find birds each Saturday next winter. It will be a 100-130 mile flight, landing on snow.This kitfox is for sale for $32,000. Is this fare or should I offer in the $25,000 range? It has 100hrs total time. Thanks, Layne

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mino2(at)verizon.net
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:58 am    Post subject: New Member Reply with quote

John,

Great post and lots of excellent information for the new member.

Fly safe,

Nelson
---


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aldaniels(at)fmtc.com
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:23 am    Post subject: New Member Reply with quote

For the new members that are thinking of going tail wheel, I have posted
the information on the Sportflight sight that my brother gives his
students when he is teaching tail wheel in his Cessna 140. I think it is
very good. He has something like 5000 hours of instructor time, so he
has some idea what he is talking about. I started flying a Kitfox tail
wheel myself after flying the Cessna 140, and felt comfortable after 3
landings. But I did have several hundred hours in a tri-gear Kitfox. I
did not see much difference in difficulty in the 140 and my series 7.
Grass and dirt are a piece of cake, pavement makes you sit up and pay
attention a little more. If you were taught to kick the rudders or flew
a slower reacting plane you may need to fly in your socks for a while as
you have to treat her like a lady and gently dance with her, but if you
do she will respond. The key is a good instructor, and they can be hard
to fine. People are willing to pay $75 an hour for someone to work on
their car, but complain about $40 an hour for a professional flight
instructor. Supply and demand. They can't supply their families what
they need on what an instructor makes, and their spouse demands they get
a job that pays.

jdmcbean wrote:

Quote:


Welcome to the List... Get ready to have lots of fun.. just remember.. "It's
not how fast you get there.. it's how fun you get there !"

Snip- Consider that in the old days every pilot learned in a tail wheel
airplane-





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mikelaundy(at)yahoo.co.uk
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:24 pm    Post subject: New Member Reply with quote

You remind me of me 45 years ago, Only diference was the "birds" we hunted on a saturday night were not the feathered ones!

Seriously, I learned to fly on taildraggers, and once I overcame the kangeroo landings it was great fun, and also made my later transition to jet trainers in the RAF pretty straight forward (landings anyway).

Just be careful not to run before you can walk, Be absolutely sure in your own mind your skills are up to it before taking your wife and dog with you, Err on the side of safety, be very careful of whiteout when landing on snow (makes judging height real difficult). Have your survival stuff with you, I guess Alaska in winter can be pretty harsh. Of course wives are easy to come by, but a good Springer Spaniel !!!

Fly safe and always within your limits, listen to what more experienced guys say, and remember its much better to be on the ground wishing you were in the sky than to be in the sky wishing to be on the ground. Choose your days for the adventure when the weather is right and enjoy. (I still love it after nearly half a century of flying).

Mike

"debrun26(at)juno.com" <debrun26(at)juno.com> wrote:


WOW, your reply was the most encouraging of all. I don't know which kitfox it is but it has a gross weight of 1200lbs... so if the 1200 comes from the gross weight, then it's a 1200. Please keep in touch and plan your trip to Ak and you can teach me to be a pro pilot. I don't know much terminology since I don't even start ground school till summer. I REEEEALY want to get good fast on the tail dragger since I want to fy on skiis next winter. I've got the bird hunting bug and want to take my springer spaniel and wife to find birds each Saturday next winter. It will be a 100-130 mile flight, landing on snow. This kitfox is for sale for $32,000. Is this fare or should I offer in the $25,000 range? It has 100hrs total time. Thanks, Layne
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

WOW, your reply was the most encouraging of all. I don't know which kitfox it is but it has a gross weight of 1200lbs... so if the 1200 comes from the gross weight, then it's a 1200. Please keep in touch and plan your trip to Ak and you can teach me to be a pro pilot. I don't know much terminology since I don't even start ground school till summer. IREEEEALY want to get good fast on the tail dragger since I want to fy on skiis next winter. I've got the bird hunting bug and want to take my springer spaniel and wife to find birds each Saturday next winter. It will be a 100-130 mile flight, landing on snow.This kitfox is for sale for $32,000. Is this fare or should I offer in the $25,000 range? It has 100hrs total time. Thanks, Layne

Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!


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bmwebb(at)cox.net
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject: New Member Reply with quote

John,
I wanted to add in my .02, but you beat me to it.

Good post,
Bradley

--


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debrun26(at)juno.com
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:44 pm    Post subject: New member Reply with quote

I am still looking at possible options to buying a kitfox to learn to fly in as a sport pilot and then a private pilot. What are the options of engines for a KitfoxIV and aproximate cruising speeds of each. I have been looking at a KF4 hear in Alaska with a 912ul with cruise speed of 85mph. There are a couple places I'd like to go on a regular basis that would be 400 air miles away and I would prefer to be going 100-110 mph. What is the recomended top speed for the KF frame or is there such a recomendation. Also is the KF strong enough to do light aerobatics? I have a friend here in AK that would take a week off and fly a KF back up here with me if I found one for sale in the lower 48 states. How would I find one? Thanks, Layne in Alaska

Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

I am still looking at possible options to buying a kitfox to learn to fly in as a sport pilot and then a private pilot. What are the options of engines for a KitfoxIV and aproximate cruising speeds of each. I have been looking at a KF4 hear in Alaska with a 912ul with cruise speed of 85mph. There are a couple places I'd like to go on a regular basis that would be 400 air miles away and I would prefer to be going 100-110 mph. What is the recomended top speed for the KF frame or is there such a recomendation. Also is the KF strong enough to do light aerobatics?I have a friend here in AK that would take a week off and fly a KF back up here with me if I found one for sale in the lower48 states. How would I findone? Thanks,Layne in Alaska

Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!


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wingsdown(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:38 pm    Post subject: New member Reply with quote

I would suggest to learn and get your ticket in the same aircraft. Then
buy the kitfox and get some dual time and an endorsement.

Rick

--


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clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject: New member Reply with quote

The Model IV cruises faster then that. Clint
From: "debrun26(at)juno.com" <debrun26(at)juno.com>
Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: New member
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:40:26 GMT



I am still looking at possible options to buying a kitfox to learn to fly in
as a sport pilot and then a private pilot. What are the options of engines
for a KitfoxIV and aproximate cruising speeds of each. I have been looking
at a KF4 hear in Alaska with a 912ul with cruise speed of 85mph. There are
a couple places I'd like to go on a regular basis that would be 400 air
miles away and I would prefer to be going 100-110 mph. What is the
recomended top speed for the KF frame or is there such a recomendation.
Also is the KF strong enough to do light aerobatics? I have a friend here in
AK that would take a week off and fly a KF back up here with me if I found
one for sale in the lower 48 states. How would I find one? Thanks, Layne
in Alaska

Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

I am still looking at possible options to buying a kitfox to learn to fly in
as a sport pilot and then a private pilot. What are the options of engines
for a KitfoxIV and aproximate cruising speeds of each. I have been looking
at a KF4 hear in Alaska with a 912ul with cruise speed of 85mph. There are a
couple places I'd like to go on a regular basis that would be 400 air miles
away and I would prefer to be going 100-110 mph. What is the recomended top
speed for the KF frame or is there such a recomendation. Also is the KF
strong enough to do light aerobatics?I have a friend here in AK that would
take a week off and fly a KF back up here with me if I found one for sale in
the lower48 states. How would I findone? Thanks,Layne in Alaska

Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!


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wingnut



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: New Member Reply with quote

110mph is attainable for a model IV with a 912UL. I have that very combination and I can get 115. I do have an IVO prop but large draggy tundra tires with no pants. I can still get better than 105 with the prop configured for 5400rpm at takeoff (which gives me 95% peek takeoff power). If the one you're looking at cruises at 85, I would guess that it's missing many or all of the common drag reducing accessories.

Engine options include but are not limited to: Rotax 582, 912ul/s, VW and Subaru E81 conversions. Perfomance wise, it's hard to top the 912s in terms of power to weight with reasonable reliability. The Subaru EA81 seems be popular. It puts out as much or more power but is heavier. The couple that I've seen performance numbers for didn't do nearly as well as mine.

The KF is not rated for aerobatics but I understand that people do it. Seem crazy to me but then I'm just a student pilot Smile

I found my Kitfox on barnstormers.com. I bought it sight unseen and the original owner flew it across the country for the price of fuel and a return ticket home. If I were single, I would have flown to Washington to fly back to Virginia with him.
Quote:
What are the options of engines for a KitfoxIV and aproximate cruising speeds of each. I have been looking at a KF4 hear in Alaska with a 912ul with cruise speed of 85mph. There are a couple places I'd like to go on a regular basis that would be 400 air miles away and I would prefer to be going 100-110 mph. What is the recomended top speed for the KF frame or is there such a recomendation. Also is the KF strong enough to do light aerobatics? I have a friend here in AK that would take a week off and fly a KF back up here with me if I found one for sale in the lower 48 states. How would I find one? Thanks, Layne in Alaska


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wingnut



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: New Member Reply with quote

At the risk of being ostracized, I just wanted to re-iterate that I think there are better options than a Kitfox if you want to learn to fly on a budget. You can get an old 152 for half the price. The sedate handling will get you through your training faster, instructors are easier to come by, insurance will not burn a hole in your wallet and when you're done, you can sell it for about what you paid. Then, you can transition to the Kitfox and you'll be proficient in two airplanes. A win, win in my book.

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jimmieblackwell(at)sbcglo
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:00 pm    Post subject: New Member Reply with quote

I get 115 mph cruise from my Model IV Speedster with 912 UL and IVO ground adjustable prop. Expecting to get more when I get the wheel pants installed.

Jimmie

wingnut <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> wrote:


110mph is attainable for a model IV with a 912UL. I have that very combination and I can get 115. I do have an IVO prop but large draggy tundra tires with no pants. I can still get better than 105 with the prop configured for 5400rpm at takeoff (which gives me 95% peek takeoff power). If the one you're looking at cruises at 85, I would guess that it's missing many or all of the common drag reducing accessories.

Engine options include but are not limited to: Rotax 582, 912ul/s, VW and Subaru E81 conversions. Perfomance wise, it's hard to top the 912s in terms of power to weight with reasonable reliability. The Subaru EA81 seems be popular. It puts out as much or more power but is heavier. The couple that I've seen performance numbers for didn't do nearly as well as mine.

The KF is not rated for aerobatics but I understand that people do it. Seem crazy to me but then I'm just a student pilot Smile

I found my Kitfox on barnstormers.com. I bought it sight unseen and the original owner flew it across the country for the price of fuel and a return ticket home. If I were single, I would have flown to Washington to fly back to Virginia with him.

Quote:
What are the options of engines for a KitfoxIV and aproximate cruising speeds of each. I have been looking at a KF4 hear in Alaska with a 912ul with cruise speed of 85mph. There are a couple places I'd like to go on a regular basis that would be 400 air miles away and I would prefer to be going 100-110 mph. What is the recomended top speed for the KF frame or is there such a recomendation. Also is the KF strong enough to do light aerobatics? I have a friend here in AK that would take a week off and fly a KF back up here with me if I found one for sale in the lower 48 states. How would I find one? Thanks, Layne in Alaska




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kirkhull(at)sbcglobal.net
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:13 pm    Post subject: New Member Reply with quote

I have just finished a IV with an ea81 installed. It should fly soon, I am
just waiting on the paperwork. I was wondering what the horse power was on
the 912 and the empty weight of a fox with one installed. N205AK is 730 lb
with 100 HP. I was hoping to get some prelim. # before the first flight
--


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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject: New member Reply with quote

Layne,

I think it is a great idea, especially if you plan on saving a buck early
and go for the Sport Pilot initially. There were no Kitfoxes around when I
learned to fly, but I bought a half interest in a Cessna 170B and learned to
fly in that.

Others have commented on the performance and I agree with them. I can
cruise at close to 115, but have lots of fairings. I have put 5 or 6
hundered miles on it in a day several times.

Lowell
---


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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject: New Member Reply with quote

Kirk,

Mine came in at 704 lbs with the aluminum gear and lots of farinings. A
friend, Mark, has one that is exactly 100 lbs lighter than mine 604 with the
tube gear. Both with the 912 UL.

Lowell

---


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roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:00 pm    Post subject: New member Reply with quote

Layne you must not have seen the video by Jimmy Franklin to ask if the KF
can do aerobatics. On Lazair.com there is a video of the Skystar Speedster
doing everything I ever want to do. Some of the lighter models might not
take that though. Ron NB Ore

Quote:
From: "debrun26(at)juno.com" <debrun26(at)juno.com>
Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: New member
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:40:26 GMT



I am still looking at possible options to buying a kitfox to learn to fly
in as a sport pilot and then a private pilot. What are the options of
engines for a KitfoxIV and aproximate cruising speeds of each. I have been
looking at a KF4 hear in Alaska with a 912ul with cruise speed of 85mph.
There are a couple places I'd like to go on a regular basis that would be
400 air miles away and I would prefer to be going 100-110 mph. What is the
recomended top speed for the KF frame or is there such a recomendation.
Also is the KF strong enough to do light aerobatics? I have a friend here
in AK that would take a week off and fly a KF back up here with me if I
found one for sale in the lower 48 states. How would I find one? Thanks,
Layne in Alaska

Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

I am still looking at possible options to buying a kitfox to learn to fly
in as a sport pilot and then a private pilot. What are the options of
engines for a KitfoxIV and aproximate cruising speeds of each. I have been
looking at a KF4 hear in Alaska with a 912ul with cruise speed of 85mph.
There are a couple places I'd like to go on a regular basis that would be
400 air miles away and I would prefer to be going 100-110 mph. What is the
recomended top speed for the KF frame or is there such a recomendation.
Also is the KF strong enough to do light aerobatics?I have a friend here in
AK that would take a week off and fly a KF back up here with me if I found
one for sale in the lower48 states. How would I findone? Thanks,Layne in
Alaska

Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!



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MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:32 am    Post subject: New Member Reply with quote

Kirk sez:

Quote:
...I was wondering what the horse power was on the 912 and the empty
weight of a fox with one installed. N205AK is 730 lb with 100 HP. I
was hoping to get some prelim. # before the first flight

Your numbers seem fine, Kirk. My Model IV-1200 Speedster weighed in
at 660 pounds with a 100 HP Rotax 912ULS and Ivo medium prop. After
I installed the wheel pants she could hit Vne (140 mph) in level
flight with full power. High speed cruise was around 125 mph at 5.5
gph or a more sedate 115 mph at 5 gph or a bit less. She'd fly on
3.5 gph, too, doing about 75 to 80 mph.

My 'fox was FAR from stock--we had even changed the shape of the
empanage with extra tubing--and she had nearly every kind of speed
fairing known to man, so your mileage (and performance!) will vary.

Mike G.
N728KF


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kirkhull(at)sbcglobal.net
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:31 pm    Post subject: New Member Reply with quote

thanks . I will let every one know as soon a the FAA gets me the paper work.
They sent back the registration becouse Skystay did not sign it.

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
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