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Advice on headsets

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Watkinsdw

Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 138
Location: Deerfield Beach, FL

Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject: Advice on headsets

Greetings from some new Kolbers,



We finally got a break in the wind at Pompano (KPMP), and flew our new MK3C this Saturday. She flew like a (song)bird. I emphasize the "song" part, since she really put our ANR headsets through their paces. 



I have a pair of Bose X's and Jeff had  a pair of Lightspeed 3G's. My Bose's helped, but I had difficulty understanding the tower over the still considerable level of noise after ANR filtered out the lethal levels. The 3G's periodically generated a 'buzzing' that sounded like low frequency feedback. He could get it to stop temporarily by cupping the earpieces with his hands. 



Any have a recommendation for headsets designed for this high-noise environment? 



I look forward to a spirited discussion on this issue...



Thanks, 

Dave

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject: Advice on headsets

> Any have a recommendation for headsets designed for this high-noise 

environment?

 > Dave

I use a DRE-6000 ANR headset.  Just bought my second one from Aircraft 

Spruce.



Works well in my 912ULS powered mkIII.



      Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Co

       Request For Quotation

      Thank you for your request for quotation. We are pleased to offer the 

DRE 6000 ANR HEADSET, part number 11-00543 at $359.95 USD . Please let us 

know if there is anything else we can help you with.



      To order, return to Aircraft Spruce electronic order form and add part 

number 11-00543 to your shopping cart. The manufacturers minimum advertised 

price (MAP) will be displayed when you place your order, but our order 

processing server will change it to this quoted price when it sends your 

confirmation.





DRE has a power supply you can buy for about $30.00 to wire into the 

aircraft battery.  Will quickly pay for its self.



I have been flying with the DRE-6000 headsets for about 5 years.  I am 

nearly deaf.  Had gotten to the point I could not understand what was being 

transmitted on my radio.  The DRE-6000 fixed that.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Advice on headsets

 	  Watkinsdw wrote: 	
		  Greetings from some new Kolbers,



We finally got a break in the wind at Pompano (KPMP), and flew our new MK3C this Saturday. She flew like a (song)bird. I emphasize the "song" part, since she really put our ANR headsets through their paces. 



I have a pair of Bose X's and Jeff had  a pair of Lightspeed 3G's. My Bose's helped, but I had difficulty understanding the tower over the still considerable level of noise after ANR filtered out the lethal levels. The 3G's periodically generated a 'buzzing' that sounded like low frequency feedback. He could get it to stop temporarily by cupping the earpieces with his hands. 



Any have a recommendation for headsets designed for this high-noise environment? 



I look forward to a spirited discussion on this issue...



Thanks, 

Dave 	




I use the Telex stratus 50-D. It's far and away better at noise reduction than anything else I've ever used, because of the digital sampling nature of the ANR (it's not analogue).  The passive NR is pretty good too but there's no better ANR on the market. I don't have to also use earplugs with it unlike my other headsets.



It's expensive but a lot cheaper than a bunch of hearing loss .



The microphone is also very high quality, so the tower will have a lot easier time hearing you with it too.



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject: Advice on headsets

Dave



I have a set of Segtronics head sets that I put a Headsets ANR unit in. It 

works well but doesn't stop enough of my singing VW. Recently I added a Sony 

ear bud head set like they hook to MP3 players. They say they cancel noise 

(passive noise reduction) and they do some but paired (I ware them under the 

headsets) with my Sigtronics they work great. They stop just enough extra 

noise to be very comfortable but also have a very high quality speaker that 

makes radio transmission very understandable without having to crank the 

volume up. I also have a DRE intercom that helps by only opening the mike 

that brakes the squelch.



I have flown with John H and had recently commented that his plane is very 

quiet. I may have misspoken it may have been His DRE headsets.



It would seem that at least by the price that you would have the best 

headset going. Also I hate to mention it but make sure your squelch is set 

right. Kind of defeats the ANR when your intercom is boosting the noise your 

headset is trying to filter.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



---

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Advice on headsets

I have a pair of Lightspeed 20XL's. They are ok, but on takeoff it's hard to talk to your passenger with the noise. I've found a neat trick that makes them quiet like the expensive sets: use foam earplugs with the headsets and turn the volume up. Works great!



Ralph

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: Advice on headsets

> I have a pair of Lightspeed 20XL's. They are ok, but on takeoff, it's 

hard to talk to your passenger with the noise. I've found a neat trick that 

makes them quiet like the expensive sets: use foam earplugs with the 

headsets and turn the volume up. Works great!

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Ralph


	




Unless you have already lost most of your hearing.



I couldn't wear ear plugs with a flight helmet when I was in flight school 

in 1968.  I just turned up the volume and I could hear good enough to get 

the job done.



Now I am on the edge of my ability to hear well enough to understand the 

spoken word with the ANR headset.



Next step will be to do a better job of keeping myself cleared visually, 

transmit in the blind, which we do at uncontrolled airports most of the 

time, and stay out of controlled air space when I must communicate.



Might present a problem flying cross country through Canada.  Any airport 

that has commercial traffic has a requirement to make radio communication. 

Had a bad radio going into Kamloops, BC.  FSS could not understand my 

transmissions.  Got my butt chewed out after I landed and was in the FBO. 

Made it the rest of the way to Oshkosh and then Alabama with receive only.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 7:20 pm Post subject: Advice on headsets

[quote]   It would seem that at least by the price that you would have the best    

headset going. Also I hate to mention it but make sure your squelch is set    

right. Kind of defeats the ANR when your intercom is boosting the noise    your 

headset is trying to filter.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW    Powered MKIIIC



    

   I copied a page from my instruction manual for my DRE    headsets that might be of interest to you and your David Clark set. The    headsets are directional and are generally set -up for tractor configuration.    You might try turning the headset around and put the mike on the other side of    your face. 

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   "Mic Boom Placement and adjustment"

   Inside each ear cup are two microphones which are a    critical part of the ENR circuit. These microphones must always be oriented    towards the source of the noise ( Typically in the front in a single engine    aircraft) for proper operation of the ENR system. You cannot rotate a left    hand Mic Boom and turn it into a right hand  Mic Boom as you would with a    standard headset.

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   I scanned the whole thing but the file is 4.9 MB and I    didn't want to clog up everyone's computer with that kind of a file.  For    what its worth, I assume that you can just turn the whole headset over putting    the mic on the right side and get much less noise. I tried my DRE both ways    and still was not happy with the system. I have much better luck and the wife    can understand a Sigtronics S45 headset with no ANR capabilities

    

   Larry C

   



[b]

_________________
do not archive

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 3:44 am Post subject: Re: Advice on headsets

Many headsets have a mike gain control potentiometer on the mike. To get at it, all you have to do is take off the foam tip and remove a tiny plastic black cover. Underneath that cover is the adjustment for mike gain. Usually turning the gain clockwise means more mike gain. I've played with mine and found that turning the gain down, made for less noise. It's an experimentation process.



Ralph

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

Watkinsdw

Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 138
Location: Deerfield Beach, FL

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Advice on headsets

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I didn't think about the squelch issue; I usually keep it at a level that I set on the ground, at idle rpms, where speaking just breaks the squelch. I'll try adjusting it under flight conditions. If the engine noise is breaking the squelch, that could solve my problem. It will also confirm I'm an idiot!



I'm wondering about whether ANR headsets address certain frequency ranges better than others. It makes sense that the standard general aviation headset may be set up for lycomings and continentals. 



Does anyone know if the Rotax frequency range is similar, and if not, is there an ANR headset that targets these frequencies?



I'm very interested in the DRE's that John H. mentioned, and the Telex headsets that advertise 50db noise reduction sound tempting. Of course the DRE's are a good bit cheaper...



Any other ideas?

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Advice on headsets

 	  Watkinsdw wrote: 	
		  

Does anyone know if the Rotax frequency range is similar, and if not, is there an ANR headset that targets these frequencies?



	




No and yes! With a 3 blade prop, the 912 makes a significantly higher frequency noise than the typical direct drive 2-blade situations you find in the connie/lyc equipped planes.



This is a general problem with using headsets designed for general aviation use in our 912/3-blade prop equipped planes as they're intended to target those lower frequencies. In the typical cessna they work great, but you climb into one our planes with them and you're exhausted and ears ringing at the end of the flight.



In researching it, the telex 50-D ANR is the only one I could find that specifically targets higher frequency noise in addition to the lower frequencies. If you look at the graph on telex's website you'll see how the ANR goes will up above the typical 100 hz falloff of the others on the market.



That was specifically why I bought it over the others - they are designed for GA use and don't provide good ANR at the noise frequencies we encounter.



I can vouch for how well it attenuates a much wider range of noise.....



Like I said, expensive but well worth it to protect your hearing.



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:09 am Post subject: Advice on headsets

Any have a recommendation for headsets designed for this high-noise

environment? 



I look forward to a spirited discussion on this issue...



Thanks, 

Dave

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


	


Dave

I bought Telex  Echelon ANR 150 headsets...  and out of the box the mike

levels were so loud that the intercom had a problem handling the signals,,,

I called the factory and they told me to adjust the mike gain down,   since

then I have been quite happy,   I am using the Sigtronics spo22n intercom

powered off the aircraft power.



Boyd Young

MkIIIC

Watkinsdw

Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 138
Location: Deerfield Beach, FL

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Advice on headsets

Thanks for the info on the Telex! Is it really the only digital unit on the market?



I have an Ivo 2-blade prop. I wonder if it lives in the same high frequency range as the 3-blade you're describing. 

We have a 912 ULS spinning it. 



Right now, we're leaning toward the unit that John H. recommended, mostly because of the price. I may get a Telex too, if I can get Aircraft Spruce or another vendor to authorize a return after we compare the results side-by-side.



By the way, I talked to my partner, Jeff and he said he did try adjusting the squelch in flight...I was too busy gazing around in wonder, and dodging Cessnas to notice.



Thanks again for all the great suggestions, you guys.

Dave

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 12:31 pm Post subject: Advice on headsets

> Right now, we're leaning toward the unit that John H. recommended, mostly 

because of the price.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Dave


	




Dave:



I bought the first DRE-6000 several years ago.  Recently bought the second 

set.



Several reasons I fly with them:



1-They work well for me.



2-When you need something, you can call DRE at Pahrump, NV, and talk to the 

folks that run the company.  It is a small company that wants to make sure 

their customers are satisfied.



I was serious enough about being comfortable when I fly, I spent big bucks 

for a DC X11, their top of the line, for around 8 hundred dollars. 

Beautiful lightweight composite headset that worked great in my living room 

and kitchen, but could not produce in the cockpit of a mkIII.  Had to send 

them back to Aircraft Spruce.



Discovered Aircraft Spruce was carrying the DRE brand again and ordered my 

second set.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Advice on headsets

 	  Watkinsdw wrote: 	
		  Thanks for the info on the Telex! Is it really the only digital unit on the market?



I have an Ivo 2-blade prop. I wonder if it lives in the same high frequency range as the 3-blade you're describing. 

We have a 912 ULS spinning it. 



	




Not sure if it's the only digital sampling one on the market or not, but it's probably the best one if there are others.



It works equally well at nulling out the low frequencies as well, so it should be a pleasant surprise either way. 



In a friend's RV-6A, it all but eliminates the low thrumming of the prop making for very comfortable flying.



But it also does a good job with the scream of our 912's too. 



One thing it doesn't do is filter out abrupt changes in sound or odd sounds like the mild prop harmonic noise I get with my WD - this is by design so you can't miss or ignore something abnormal..... This is a really good feature....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

Watkinsdw

Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 138
Location: Deerfield Beach, FL

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Advice on headsets

Thanks, John, thanks, Lucien (is that Lucy-in the sky...?)



Jeff is ordering a pair of DRE's this week. If they outperform my expensive Bose headset, I'm buying a pair, too. 



You guys have been very helpful. 



By the way, I've been reading the prop talk, and was especially impressed by your performance numbers on the WD you fly, John. You know our plane and our 2 blade IVO. When we are ready to spend some more money.. what WD do you recommend for Steven's plane?



Down the road, we're also thinking about floats, but that's down the road, or canal, a bit..



Dave

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: Advice on headsets

> By the way, I've been reading the prop talk, and was especially impressed 

by your performance numbers on the WD you fly, John. You know our plane and 

our 2 blade IVO. When we are ready to spend some more money.. what WD do you 

recommend for Steven's plane?

 >

 	  Quote: 	
		   Dave


	




I have had good luck with 70, 71, and 72" Warp Drive, 3 blade, fast taper, 

nickle steel leading edge.



If pitched to turn 5,500 rpm wide open throttle, straight and level flight, 

you will get a good all around performing, reliable prop.



John W ran a 68" 3 blade WD on his Kolbra.  Out climbed and out ran me with 

his 912ULS.  Often wondered is I could do better if I went smaller, but 

never got around to testing shorter blades.  I think I am about maxed out 

with the 71" blades I am running now.  MKIII's hit an invisible wall about 

85 mph.  More HP to penetrate that wall is wasted.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

kolber(at)atcyber.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: Advice on headsets

I shopped for headsets at Oshkosh a few years ago, willing to pay virtually

any price for something more effective than the David Clark passive headsets

that I used for years in type certified aircraft.   I wanted something I

could use for both my Kolb Mark IIIc (Rotax 582) and also for open canopy

wind noise in another aircraft I own.  I looked at Bose and the top-of-the

line David Clark, Telex, and numerous others.  I explained my needs,

stressing wind noise in the one aircraft and 2 cycle high RPM noise in the

Kolb.  Both Bose and David Clark told me I would be disappointed in their

products for what I needed.  I talked with virtually every headset exhibitor

at the show.  One that impressed me was the Clarity Aloft, ear bud type.  I

looked at their frequency attenuation graphs and the attenuation up over 40

db - higher than even the ANR type headsets (which seem to offer only about

28 db).  The attenuation over much of the frequency spectrum with the

Clarity Aloft is relatively flat.  I also liked the idea of virtually no

weight on my head (a few ounces) and fact I could wear any type hat I

wanted.  Since they are passive, they also require no batteries.  They

proved to be great, both in the Kolb and on long cross countries in my other

plane - no more headset squeeze after hours of flying.  They have a music

input (stereo) and the fidelity is phenomenal.  I use with an IPod.  The

down side - $500 a piece and the foam ear tips must be periodically

replaced.  (They can be washed and use extended.)   They have numerous

patents on them.  The mike is very high quality and the speakers are said to

be equivalent to very high end hearing aids.  I have done A-B type

comparison tests in the Kolb with these headsets and ANR headsets of very

high quality- including Lightspeed and David Clark.   There is no comparison

- night and day difference.  If you want, you can combine with the

traditional style headset (passive or ANR) and wear both, but I have found

no advantage.  So I use only the Clarity Aloft by itself.  I use with a

Sigtronics intercom modified by Sigtronics for high noise environment.  No

more problems communicating with my passenger, even at take-off power

setting in the 582.  Worth every penny I paid for them.   They are also much

more effective at reducing wind noise than anything else I have tried.



Gary Siegrist

Mark IIIc

Watkinsdw

Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 138
Location: Deerfield Beach, FL

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:33 am Post subject: Re: Advice on headsets

Thanks, John, and Gary,



We're not in a hurry, but I appreciate the info. 



Gary, those ear buds must be pretty dense foam to passively reduce noise by 40db. 

We'll try the DRE's for now, and keep the Clarity Aloft in mind.



Dave

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