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closing up the tailcone

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jochs(at)froody.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:37 pm Post subject: closing up the tailcone

Hi all,



I'm getting to the point of starting to rivet the tailcone and I want  

to put in all the necessary stuff for pulling wires/tubes, etc as  

early as possible.  I have a big roll of innerduct like Tim O used,  

and I'd like to get that in place now.  I'm not so concerned about the  

battery area stuff since it's right at the front of the tailcone, but  

I'd prefer not to be crawling around inside it later... so if someone  

could point me to some pics (or text) of the following items, I'd  

appreciate it.



1) How does the tail strobe wiring (and electric trim wiring) get from  

the tailcone to the rudder?  The rear spar on the VS is solid and so  

is the rear bulkhead on the tailcone, and once through that how do you  

get it into the rudder in a way that is not going to create stress on  

the wires when the rudder moves?  I'm also considering a camera in the  

top of the VS, are there any issues with securing the fiberglass bits  

with nutplates and screws rather than riveting it on?



2) On the static plumbing I understand the recommended method is to go  

up from one static port, over the top, hit a T with the plumbing going  

forward and then continue down to the other static port.  Is it better  

to run the plumbing forward on the right or left side or does it  

matter?  I also noticed there are a series of small holes arcing over  

the top in the bulkhead closest to the static ports... can I use those  

for securing the static line with zip-ties or do they serve some  

purpose that I am not aware of?  Also, someone asked me a question  

that I hadn't thought about which was "are you going to put a drain in  

the static line?" and I didn't have an answer... what is your opinion  

on that?  I'm using the safeair1 system with the alternate static  

option if that matters.



3) Is there any other wiring/plumbing or anything else that needs to  

go to the back of the tailcone?  Antennas, etc?  If I am putting  

antennas back there then do the antenna wires need to be kept separate  

from the other wires for any reason?  Are there some recommendations  

on where to put doublers in now even if I don't have the antenna(e)?



4) As far as putting foam down for sound proofing, is there any needed  

in the tailcone, or does that all go into the cabin area?



5) Lastly, I've been looking through the archives and trying to look  

at the plans but I am not totally clear on where the rudder cables run  

and I don't want to put the inner duct through a lightening hole if  

that is where my rudder cable is going to go... where is it safe to  

run that stuff?  Also, I don't really want to go randomly making new  

holes without knowing that its not going to affect the structural  

integrity



Apologies if this has all been hashed and re-hashed already, I'm just  

not finding the answers 



Thanks,

James

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Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:15 pm Post subject: closing up the tailcone

IMHO, you are worrying too much about getting stuff in early. You will need someone to crawl in to rivet the top skin to the ribs anyway. It isn't that long a reach. Just closed mine in a few weeks ago. Other than riveting the static ports in place, I just followed the plans.

 

On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 1:25 PM, James Ochs <jochs(at)froody.org (jochs(at)froody.org)> wrote:

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs(at)froody.org (jochs(at)froody.org)>

 

 Hi all,

 

 I'm getting to the point of starting to rivet the tailcone and I want to put in all the necessary stuff for pulling wires/tubes, etc as early as possible.  I have a big roll of innerduct like Tim O used, and I'd like to get that in place now.  I'm not so concerned about the battery area stuff since it's right at the front of the tailcone, but I'd prefer not to be crawling around inside it later... so if someone could point me to some pics (or text) of the following items, I'd appreciate it.

  

 1) How does the tail strobe wiring (and electric trim wiring) get from the tailcone to the rudder?  The rear spar on the VS is solid and so is the rear bulkhead on the tailcone, and once through that how do you get it into the rudder in a way that is not going to create stress on the wires when the rudder moves?  I'm also considering a camera in the top of the VS, are there any issues with securing the fiberglass bits with nutplates and screws rather than riveting it on?

  

 2) On the static plumbing I understand the recommended method is to go up from one static port, over the top, hit a T with the plumbing going forward and then continue down to the other static port.  Is it better to run the plumbing forward on the right or left side or does it matter?  I also noticed there are a series of small holes arcing over the top in the bulkhead closest to the static ports... can I use those for securing the static line with zip-ties or do they serve some purpose that I am not aware of?  Also, someone asked me a question that I hadn't thought about which was "are you going to put a drain in the static line?" and I didn't have an answer... what is your opinion on that?  I'm using the safeair1 system with the alternate static option if that matters.

  

 3) Is there any other wiring/plumbing or anything else that needs to go to the back of the tailcone?  Antennas, etc?  If I am putting antennas back there then do the antenna wires need to be kept separate from the other wires for any reason?  Are there some recommendations on where to put doublers in now even if I don't have the antenna(e)?

  

 4) As far as putting foam down for sound proofing, is there any needed in the tailcone, or does that all go into the cabin area?

 

 5) Lastly, I've been looking through the archives and trying to look at the plans but I am not totally clear on where the rudder cables run and I don't want to put the inner duct through a lightening hole if that is where my rudder cable is going to go... where is it safe to run that stuff?  Also, I don't really want to go randomly making new holes without knowing that its not going to affect the structural integrity

  

 Apologies if this has all been hashed and re-hashed already, I'm just not finding the answers 

 

 Thanks,

 James

 

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 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

jochs(at)froody.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: closing up the tailcone

Heh, you are probably right... it's just how I am.  I just figure it's better to get it all done now and have to crawl in once to button up the top  than to have to drag a bunch of drills, rivet guns and whatever else down there half a dozen times, especially if I have to make any big holes for the innerduct or try to rivet doubler plates in the bottom skin, both of which I think are much more easily done now than when I'm squeezed into a space that's too tight for me to begin with.



do not archive

thanks,

James



On Jun 6, 2009, at 2:11 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

[quote]IMHO, you are worrying too much about getting stuff in early. You will need someone to crawl in to rivet the top skin to the ribs anyway. It isn't that long a reach. Just closed mine in a few weeks ago. Other than riveting the static ports in place, I just followed the plans.

 

On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 1:25 PM, James Ochs <jochs(at)froody.org (jochs(at)froody.org)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs(at)froody.org (jochs(at)froody.org)>

 

 Hi all,

 

 I'm getting to the point of starting to rivet the tailcone and I want to put in all the necessary stuff for pulling wires/tubes, etc as early as possible.  I have a big roll of innerduct like Tim O used, and I'd like to get that in place now.  I'm not so concerned about the battery area stuff since it's right at the front of the tailcone, but I'd prefer not to be crawling around inside it later... so if someone could point me to some pics (or text) of the following items, I'd appreciate it.

 

 1) How does the tail strobe wiring (and electric trim wiring) get from the tailcone to the rudder?  The rear spar on the VS is solid and so is the rear bulkhead on the tailcone, and once through that how do you get it into the rudder in a way that is not going to create stress on the wires when the rudder moves?  I'm also considering a camera in the top of the VS, are there any issues with securing the fiberglass bits with nutplates and screws rather than riveting it on?

 

 2) On the static plumbing I understand the recommended method is to go up from one static port, over the top, hit a T with the plumbing going forward and then continue down to the other static port.  Is it better to run the plumbing forward on the right or left side or does it matter?  I also noticed there are a series of small holes arcing over the top in the bulkhead closest to the static ports... can I use those for securing the static line with zip-ties or do they serve some purpose that I am not aware of?  Also, someone asked me a question that I hadn't thought about which was "are you going to put a drain in the static line?" and I didn't have an answer... what is your opinion on that?  I'm using the safeair1 system with the alternate static option if that matters.

 

 3) Is there any other wiring/plumbing or anything else that needs to go to the back of the tailcone?  Antennas, etc?  If I am putting antennas back there then do the antenna wires need to be kept separate from the other wires for any reason?  Are there some recommendations on where to put doublers in now even if I don't have the antenna(e)?

 

 4) As far as putting foam down for sound proofing, is there any needed in the tailcone, or does that all go into the cabin area?

 

 5) Lastly, I've been looking through the archives and trying to look at the plans but I am not totally clear on where the rudder cables run and I don't want to put the inner duct through a lightening hole if that is where my rudder cable is going to go... where is it safe to run that stuff?  Also, I don't really want to go randomly making new holes without knowing that its not going to affect the structural integrity

 

 Apologies if this has all been hashed and re-hashed already, I'm just not finding the answers 

 

 Thanks,

 James

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

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Jim Berry

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: closing up the tailcone

James,



Kelly is right, it is not a big deal. But there are some things you could do now to save a little crawling around later. Everything I suggest below can/should be done after the tail cone is riveted, but before the tail cone is riveted to the fuselage.



I ran 2 parallel lengths of duct from the bulkhead just aft of the baggage bulkhead to the bulkhead just forward of the aft-most bulkhead. Sorry I can't reference part numbers, but I am not near my plans.  One duct would have been adequate. Install a pull cord in every duct.Generally there is no need to separate strobe or antenna wiring , assuming you use quality coax and proper technique. The rudder cables run through the bottom of each bulkhead, so they do not interfere with wiring. Later on Van's will have you drill a hole through the aft bulkhead and VS spar for the tail strobe and nav light wiring.



If you want a static drain port, the tail cone is probably not the place. You want it at the low point of your static plumbing, and easily accessible.



If you want your strobe power pack and/or elt mounted in the tail cone, I would install the mounting brackets now. If you want antennas mounted in your tail cone I would install the doublers now while you have easy access to both sides of the skins(especially if you rivet without a helper).



As  far as riveting the tail cone, I would recommend back riveting the top 3 J-channels to the top aft skin before riveting the skin to the bulkheads(to eliminate smileys in a very visible skin). I was able to back rivet my entire tail cone, with the exception of about a dozen of the most aft rivets. If I recall Deems liked that method, but Kelly did not. If you decide to buck the rivets, some people have found it easier to suspend the tail cone from the ceiling, big end down. That way your bucking partner can stand inside the cone, rather than crawl around inside. 



When you get the tail cone riveted to the rest of the fuselage, you are going to discover that in spite of your planning you are going to have to crawl in the tail cone for something anyway. A couple of 2 x 6's about 3 feet long, placed on the bottom of the bulkheads will give you enough support to crawl all the way back.



Jim Berry

40482

Getting ready for the DAR.

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Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:43 pm Post subject: closing up the tailcone

I did back rivet the stiffeners to the top aft skin. That was super. I did not back rivet the ribs to the top skin. Those were bucked, which worked very nicely, other than bucker having to crawl in. I lined bottom skin with a sleeping bag and a piece of plywood to protect stuff. Most of the rest of tail cone was back riveted except for longerons which I did with pneumatic squeezer.

 

On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Jim Berry <jimberry(at)qwest.net (jimberry(at)qwest.net)> wrote:

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net (jimberry(at)qwest.net)>

 

 

 As  far as riveting the tail cone, I would recommend back riveting the top 3 J-channels to the top aft skin before riveting the skin to the bulkheads(to eliminate smileys in a very visible skin). I was able to back rivet my entire tail cone, with the exception of about a dozen of the most aft rivets. If I recall Deems liked that method, but Kelly did not. \

  [b]

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

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