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saolesen(at)sirentel.net
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 Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:42 am Post subject: Retrofit Stall warning Decision |
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On my last flight to FL, I was getting ready to land at KVNC when a helicopter called. He stated he was at 200' long the coast and heading toward KVNC. About 20 minutes prior to this I was nearly involved in a mid-air flying around the Tampa Class B. I didn't get a TIS warning because the 480 quit commicating with the 330. I switched to the EFIS map and was shocked to see a red warning flashing. A twin flew directly under me at about about 100-200' below. Because of this close encounter of the metallic kind, I got really distracted about the helicopter. As a result I was paying too much attention to the outside and not enough attention to the A/S. I did eventually hear the AOA warning but it was VERY easy to ignore as ANOTHER VOICE on the radio. I now think the horn would be a different sound and catch the pilot's attention if all else fails.
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 237 hrs and still in one piece and I'm trying to keep it that way!
Sent from my iPad
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:06 am Post subject: Retrofit Stall warning Decision |
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Wow! That was exciting!!! FWIW, we've had two destroyed and one
damaged due to practicing too slow flight close to the ground. No
fatalities.
However, the close encounters had nothing to do with the A/S. As
someone else pointed out the tail shakes before the stall (but I don't
know about that either), so a stall warning horn may not have helped.
As you gain more experience (not like the close encounter kinds) you'll
feel and hear what your airplane does. That will serve you better than
a stall warning. Having said that, which one do you 'count on', the AOA
or the stall horn????
Some observations: When I'm approaching my destination I pull the
throttle back to give me about 80 in level flight .... different RPM for
different airplanes. In the pattern, usually on base, I'll reset the
power for my descent to the runway. I don't have to look inside the
cockpit once I'm in the pattern. Looking and listening are my top
priorities.
I'd be more worried why you had the equipment failure, and whether you
could increase the volume or type of sound of the AOA.
Linn
On 11/27/2010 12:38 PM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
| Quote: |
On my last flight to FL, I was getting ready to land at KVNC when a helicopter called. He stated he was at 200' long the coast and heading toward KVNC. About 20 minutes prior to this I was nearly involved in a mid-air flying around the Tampa Class B. I didn't get a TIS warning because the 480 quit commicating with the 330. I switched to the EFIS map and was shocked to see a red warning flashing. A twin flew directly under me at about about 100-200' below. Because of this close encounter of the metallic kind, I got really distracted about the helicopter. As a result I was paying too much attention to the outside and not enough attention to the A/S. I did eventually hear the AOA warning but it was VERY easy to ignore as ANOTHER VOICE on the radio. I now think the horn would be a different sound and catch the pilot's attention if all else fails.
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 237 hrs and still in one piece and I'm trying to keep it that way!
Sent from my iPad
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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject: Retrofit Stall warning Decision |
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There's the case for the stone simple electro-mechanical stall warning
system. Under normal conditions and following normal procedures, stall
warning shouldn't be an issue. Given any interruptions, abnormal
conditions or abnormal procedures, that's when the backup warning is
needed. Same goes for gear warnings but we don't have that problem.
On 11/27/2010 12:38 PM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
| Quote: |
On my last flight to FL, I was getting ready to land at KVNC when a helicopter called. He stated he was at 200' long the coast and heading toward KVNC. About 20 minutes prior to this I was nearly involved in a mid-air flying around the Tampa Class B. I didn't get a TIS warning because the 480 quit commicating with the 330. I switched to the EFIS map and was shocked to see a red warning flashing. A twin flew directly under me at about about 100-200' below. Because of this close encounter of the metallic kind, I got really distracted about the helicopter. As a result I was paying too much attention to the outside and not enough attention to the A/S. I did eventually hear the AOA warning but it was VERY easy to ignore as ANOTHER VOICE on the radio. I now think the horn would be a different sound and catch the pilot's attention if all else fails.
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 237 hrs and still in one piece and I'm trying to keep it that way!
|
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saolesen(at)sirentel.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject: Retrofit Stall warning Decision |
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Linn, John and others,
Thank you all for the comments. That's what makes the list valuable. My initial analysis of the AOA vs stall horn came down squarely on the side of the AOA. My point is that in a high traffic area with heavy radio traffic the warning message can get lost in all the radio traffic coming through the audio panel. At the time I was flying, there was almost constant radio traffic that competed with the message the AOA sent. While sitting in my hanger the AOA message is more than adequate, but when in a high radio traffic area and being distracted the message may get lost. An AOA that could give the "Angle, angle, push" warning and then trigger a horn closer to the stall event would be more ideal in my estimation. Since my AOA cannot trigger a horn then the next best thing is the old stall warning system.
The plane never got into stall buffet and probably wasn't that close to a stall situation. I setup the plane to fly at a certain air speed in the pattern, base, and final. I try to look outside the plane as much as possible and just glance at the ASI to make sure all is well. I do use the AOA and try and keep 2 yellow lights during the descent for landing. After "incidents" while flying I try to analyze what went wrong and try to eliminate the cause. I sure would hate for my "incident" to raise the insurance rates for the rest of you and make funeral directors happy.
As far as the equipment failure is concerned, I have checked the wiring between the 480 and the 330 and all is okay. I think the 480 is failing because I am now getting warnings for the air fuel data, the transponder and I have noticed the ILS vertical needle is missing during startup. I still need to check the software settings for both the the 330 and the 480. Realistically, I think a trip to avionics shop is in order.
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV
On Nov 27, 2010, at 1:03 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
| Quote: |
Wow! That was exciting!!! FWIW, we've had two destroyed and one damaged due to practicing too slow flight close to the ground. No fatalities.
However, the close encounters had nothing to do with the A/S. As someone else pointed out the tail shakes before the stall (but I don't know about that either), so a stall warning horn may not have helped. As you gain more experience (not like the close encounter kinds) you'll feel and hear what your airplane does. That will serve you better than a stall warning. Having said that, which one do you 'count on', the AOA or the stall horn????
Some observations: When I'm approaching my destination I pull the throttle back to give me about 80 in level flight .... different RPM for different airplanes. In the pattern, usually on base, I'll reset the power for my descent to the runway. I don't have to look inside the cockpit once I'm in the pattern. Looking and listening are my top priorities.
I'd be more worried why you had the equipment failure, and whether you could increase the volume or type of sound of the AOA.
Linn
On 11/27/2010 12:38 PM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>
>
> On my last flight to FL, I was getting ready to land at KVNC when a helicopter called. He stated he was at 200' long the coast and heading toward KVNC. About 20 minutes prior to this I was nearly involved in a mid-air flying around the Tampa Class B. I didn't get a TIS warning because the 480 quit commicating with the 330. I switched to the EFIS map and was shocked to see a red warning flashing. A twin flew directly under me at about about 100-200' below. Because of this close encounter of the metallic kind, I got really distracted about the helicopter. As a result I was paying too much attention to the outside and not enough attention to the A/S. I did eventually hear the AOA warning but it was VERY easy to ignore as ANOTHER VOICE on the radio. I now think the horn would be a different sound and catch the pilot's attention if all else fails.
>
>
>
> Sheldon Olesen
> N475PV 237 hrs and still in one piece and I'm trying to keep it that way!
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:13 pm Post subject: Retrofit Stall warning Decision |
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Ignore my previous post.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 27, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
On my last flight to FL, I was getting ready to land at KVNC when a helicopter called. He stated he was at 200' long the coast and heading toward KVNC. About 20 minutes prior to this I was nearly involved in a mid-air flying around the Tampa Class B. I didn't get a TIS warning because the 480 quit commicating with the 330. I switched to the EFIS map and was shocked to see a red warning flashing. A twin flew directly under me at about about 100-200' below. Because of this close encounter of the metallic kind, I got really distracted about the helicopter. As a result I was paying too much attention to the outside and not enough attention to the A/S. I did eventually hear the AOA warning but it was VERY easy to ignore as ANOTHER VOICE on the radio. I now think the horn would be a different sound and catch the pilot's attention if all else fails.
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 237 hrs and still in one piece and I'm trying to keep it that way!
Sent from my iPad
|
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Retrofit Stall warning Decision |
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I assume the AOA is coming from an EFIS of some sort?
It would be very easy to build a threshold detector which would set off some sort of alarm whenever an audio message was sent out. Of course, all audio messages would then set off the alarm.
If the AOA is stand-alone, then this could be a solution.
As others have said, biggest part of the job will be removing the fuel tank. I have a QB wing, and the fuel tank had to come out. After that, as I recall, it helps to have long skinny arms (I don't) to get at the nuts and bolts that hold the switch in place.
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Bob Turner
RV-10 QB |
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