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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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 Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:04 am Post subject: AOA |
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actually the voltage indicator bar/leds could be made to work.. I seem to recall  the order is red , yellow and green .. Just turn it up side down..
 didn't like my first idea?? The stun gun in the seat surely would be spot on???  Â
Â
On 01/16/2016 09:21 AM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: | Sounds good, you guy's let me know when you get them finished. It appears that my work is done here.
For me however, I don't have room on my panel for another gage, so some form of lights would work the best for me. Hopefully one of us "Kolbers" can come up with something that is worth doing.
Larry
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <[url=mailto:Herbgh(at)nctc.com]Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)[/url]>
  so how about this...a linear potentiometer hooked to the air vane(some weather protection) ...two leads run to an indicator on the panel... the indicator being a Milli volt meter...in series with another small pot /AA battery to adjust the meter reading . Meter would be over laid with green and red markers... simply adjust the potentiometer on the dash into the red when stalled onset is sensed.. Herb
On 01/16/2016 07:37 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)>
Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge assembly? The sender typically uses an arm that changes angle and sends a signal; instead of the wire and float, make a counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount the gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and down at different vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge cover off and instead of empty and full, you paint on angles of attack up to stall.
You could try something like this first:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off everything you didn't need, the sender itself would be about 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge instead, one that went up and down, you could try something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed. And if you repainted the face and mounted it upside down, you have yellow and red at the top.
Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of your panel so it is in your immediate vision while you are on final:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane assembly light and responsive, finding the best airflow location, and doing some calibrating.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452018#452018
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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:15 am Post subject: aoa |
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Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of drag and sticking.
 Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC world there are progressive led lights that respond to changing voltage.  Run 12 v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the center will vary from 0 to 12 volts when the pot is turned.   You could limit the travel of the wind vain to limit the possible output voltages, or put resistors in series with the 12 v and or ground terminals of the pot. This would keep the center outlet of the pot voltages within limits of the led light bar voltage indicator.
The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part by the max or min current requirements of the led voltage indicator. IE: a 5 k ohm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot.  The greater ohm value of the pot and still be able to drive the led volt indicator will consume the least amount of power.
Boyd young
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:24 am Post subject: aoa |
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I am afraid that I am only " blob " qualified, after all I spent my entire career as a Rail Road welder. Send me pictures of the finished product. :-)Larry
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 9:15 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of drag and sticking.
 Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC world there are progressive led lights that respond to changing voltage.  Run 12 v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the center will vary from 0 to 12 volts when the pot is turned.   You could limit the travel of the wind vain to limit the possible output voltages, or put resistors in series with the 12 v and or ground terminals of the pot. This would keep the center outlet of the pot voltages within limits of the led light bar voltage indicator.
The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part by the max or min current requirements of the led voltage indicator. IE: a 5 k ohm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot.  The greater ohm value of the pot and still be able to drive the led volt indicator will consume the least amount of power.
Boyd young |
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If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:00 am Post subject: aoa |
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Blobbers are welcome in the Kolb family.
john h
mkIII
Titus, AL
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:23 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: aoa
I am afraid that I am only " blob " qualified, after all I spent my entire career as a Rail Road welder. Send me pictures of the finished product.
Larry
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 9:15 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of drag and sticking.
Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC world there are progressive led lights that respond to changing voltage. Run 12 v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the center will vary from 0 to 12 volts when the pot is turned. You could limit the travel of the wind vain to limit the possible output voltages, or put resistors in series with the 12 v and or ground terminals of the pot. This would keep the center outlet of the pot voltages within limits of the led light bar voltage indicator.
The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part by the max or min current requirements of the led voltage indicator. IE: a 5 k ohm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot. The greater ohm value of the pot and still be able to drive the led volt indicator will consume the least amount of power.
Boyd young
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The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:07 am Post subject: aoa |
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What I said! Just not as eloquently....
On 01/16/2016 10:15 AM, B Young wrote:
| Quote: |
Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of drag
and sticking.
Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC
world there are progressive led lights that respond to changing
voltage. Run 12 v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the
center will vary from 0 to 12 volts when the pot is turned. You
could limit the travel of the wind vain to limit the possible output
voltages, or put resistors in series with the 12 v and or ground
terminals of the pot. This would keep the center outlet of the pot
voltages within limits of the led light bar voltage indicator.
The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part by
the max or min current requirements of the led voltage indicator. IE:
a 5 k ohm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot. The greater ohm value of the
pot and still be able to drive the led volt indicator will consume the
least amount of power.
Boyd young
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Mike Welch
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:30 am Post subject: aoa |
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From the depth of lurking mode, I am inspired to comment.
Boyd,
The "moving arm" doesn't touch any solder blobs. The device use a magnet flush mounted on the torpedo, and the circuitry detects the magnetism (without actually touching anything). It's known as the Hall Effect. If I'm correct, I rounded all of the electronic parts up about 4 years ago to build a few of these AOA indicators.
Regarding the small IC circuit with the 10 segment red/yellow/green LEDs, I have two of them, but on my AOA system I decided I wanted the visual impact MUCH more noticeable, so I built my own individual "10 red/yellow/green LEDs" using 5mm LEDs.
Bigger, longer, etc, etc. (I get my AOA function from my Dynon D10A, which has an audio alarm that I have wired into my intercom, thus I have bright LEDs and audio notification for an impending stall.)
Although an AOA indicator is very useful, a lift reserve indicator(LRI) is more useful, and much less, okay some less, to build. The LRI uses air pressure differential to determine when a wing is no longer flying. The LRI is always accurate because it measures the point at which the still begins, and factors such as weight, wing incidence, whatever, have no effect on it's accuracy.
I have already built one (a copy of a store bought unit, which I also have).). I have the gages and supplies to build 3 more.
Mike Welch
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:18 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of drag and sticking.
Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC world there are progressive led lights that respond to changing voltage. Run 12 v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the center will vary from 0 to 12 volts when the pot is turned. You could limit the travel of the wind vain to limit the possible output voltages, or put resistors in series with the 12 v and or ground terminals of the pot. This would keep the center outlet of the pot voltages within limits of the led light bar voltage indicator.
The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part by the max or min current requirements of the led voltage indicator. IE: a 5 k ohm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot. The greater ohm value of the pot and still be able to drive the led volt indicator will consume the least amount of power.
Boyd young
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mojavjoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:51 am Post subject: AOA |
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Back to my idea of a magnet and sensor. Instead of one sensor have four or five in an arc, hook each to a light of a different color shining on the wind shield to have a heads up display.
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:21:00 AM
Subject: Re: Re: AOA
Sounds good, you guy's let me know when you get them finished. It appears that my work is done here.
For me however, I don't have room on my panel for another gage, so some form of lights would work the best for me. Hopefully one of us "Kolbers" can come up with something that is worth doing.
Larry
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>
so how about this...a linear potentiometer hooked to the air vane(some weather protection) ...two leads run to an indicator on the panel... the indicator being a Milli volt meter...in series with another small pot /AA battery to adjust the meter reading . Meter would be over laid with green and red markers... simply adjust the potentiometer on the dash into the red when stalled onset is sensed.. Herb
On 01/16/2016 07:37 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)>
Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge assembly? The sender typically uses an arm that changes angle and sends a signal; instead of the wire and float, make a counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount the gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and down at different vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge cover off and instead of empty and full, you paint on angles of attack up to stall.
You could try something like this first:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off everything you didn't need, the sender itself would be about 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge instead, one that went up and down, you could try something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed. And if you repainted the face and mounted it upside down, you have yellow and red at the top.
Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of your panel so it is in your immediate vision while you are on final:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane assembly light and responsive, finding the best airflow location, and doing some calibrating.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452018#452018
|
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Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
===========
br> fts!)
r> > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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mojavjoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:08 am Post subject: AOA |
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I know all this can be done electronically but I thought maybe it could be done in such a way that any mechanic could clobber one up.
From: mojavjoe(at)comcast.net
To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 12:51:42 PM
Subject: Re: Re: AOA
Back to my idea of a magnet and sensor. Instead of one sensor have four or five in an arc, hook each to a light of a different color shining on the wind shield to have a heads up display.
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:21:00 AM
Subject: Re: Re: AOA
Sounds good, you guy's let me know when you get them finished. It appears that my work is done here.
For me however, I don't have room on my panel for another gage, so some form of lights would work the best for me. Hopefully one of us "Kolbers" can come up with something that is worth doing.
Larry
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>
so how about this...a linear potentiometer hooked to the air vane(some weather protection) ...two leads run to an indicator on the panel... the indicator being a Milli volt meter...in series with another small pot /AA battery to adjust the meter reading . Meter would be over laid with green and red markers... simply adjust the potentiometer on the dash into the red when stalled onset is sensed.. Herb
On 01/16/2016 07:37 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)>
Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge assembly? The sender typically uses an arm that changes angle and sends a signal; instead of the wire and float, make a counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount the gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and down at different vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge cover off and instead of empty and full, you paint on angles of attack up to stall.
You could try something like this first:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off everything you didn't need, the sender itself would be about 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge instead, one that went up and down, you could try something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed. And if you repainted the face and mounted it upside down, you have yellow and red at the top.
Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of your panel so it is in your immediate vision while you are on final:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane assembly light and responsive, finding the best airflow location, and doing some calibrating.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452018#452018
|
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Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
===========
br> fts!)
r> > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
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The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:03 am Post subject: AOA |
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The cheapest, says frugal Herb, is the 3914 led 10 segment driver...the 10 segment led with green, red and yellow leds...two or three resistors..9 volt battery..or 12 volts if available and three wires going to the vane and pot on the wing or strut... The schematic is here:
http://www.eleccircuit.com/the-led-display-voltmeter-in-probe-model/
 and the circuit can simplified by removing and combining r2 and 3 into a 100k resistor..removing the two voltage leads...120 v and 1.2 volt range.. The pot will have the slider going to the probe...one end to 12v and the other to gnd..
 the vane needs to be set screwed to the pot such that one can trial and error the stall point.. Then again...the 100k resistor or the 909k (100k is ok) could be adjustable and the pot could be accessible in flight...
 2 dollar parts on ebay..circuit board can be some perf board with .1 spacing...think that is the spacing??
 Herb slow day huh??Â
Â
On 01/16/2016 12:07 PM, mojavjoe(at)comcast.net (mojavjoe(at)comcast.net) wrote:
| Quote: | I know all this can be done electronically but I thought maybe it could be done in such a way that any mechanic could clobber one up.
From: mojavjoe(at)comcast.net (mojavjoe(at)comcast.net)
To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com> (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 12:51:42 PM
Subject: Re: Re: AOA
Back to my idea of a magnet and sensor. Instead of one sensor have four or five in an arc, hook each to a light of a different color shining on the wind shield to have a heads up display.
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)
To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com> (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:21:00 AM
Subject: Re: Re: AOA
Sounds good, you guy's let me know when you get them finished. It appears that my work is done here.
For me however, I don't have room on my panel for another gage, so some form of lights would work the best for me. Hopefully one of us "Kolbers" can come up with something that is worth doing.
Larry
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Herb <[url=mailto:Herbgh(at)nctc.com]Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <[url=mailto:Herbgh(at)nctc.com]Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)[/url]>
  so how about this...a linear potentiometer hooked to the air vane(some weather protection) ...two leads run to an indicator on the panel... the indicator being a Milli volt meter...in series with another small pot /AA battery to adjust the meter reading . Meter would be over laid with green and red markers... simply adjust the potentiometer on the dash into the red when stalled onset is sensed.. Herb
On 01/16/2016 07:37 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)>
Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge assembly? The sender typically uses an arm that changes angle and sends a signal; instead of the wire and float, make a counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount the gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and down at different vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge cover off and instead of empty and full, you paint on angles of attack up to stall.
You could try something like this first:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off everything you didn't need, the sender itself would be about 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge instead, one that went up and down, you could try something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed. And if you repainted the face and mounted it upside down, you have yellow and red at the top.
Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of your panel so it is in your immediate vision while you are on final:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane assembly light and responsive, finding the best airflow location, and doing some calibrating.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:09 am Post subject: aoa |
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Frugal Herb again....in the case of the LRI ..I think a throw away blood pressure gauges could work?Â
On 01/16/2016 11:30 AM, Mike wrote:
| Quote: | From the depth of lurking mode, I am inspired to comment.
Boyd, Â
 The "moving arm" doesn't touch any solder blobs.  The device use a magnet flush mounted on the torpedo, and the circuitry detects the magnetism (without actually touching anything).  It's known as the Hall Effect.  If I'm correct, I rounded all of the electronic parts up about 4 years ago to build a few of these AOA indicators.
Regarding the small IC circuit with the 10 segment red/yellow/green LEDs, I have two of them, but on my AOA system I decided I wanted the visual impact MUCH more noticeable, so I built my own individual "10 red/yellow/green LEDs" using 5mm LEDs.
Bigger, longer, etc, etc. Â (I get my AOA function from my Dynon D10A, which has an audio alarm that I have wired into my intercom, thus I have bright LEDs and audio notification for an impending stall.)
Although an AOA indicator is very useful, a lift reserve indicator(LRI) is more useful, and much less, okay some less, to build. Â The LRI uses air pressure differential to determine when a wing is no longer flying. Â The LRI is always accurate because it measures the point at which the still begins, and factors such as weight, wing incidence, whatever, have no effect on it's accuracy.
I have already built one (a copy of a store bought unit, which I also have).). I have the gages and supplies to build 3 more.
Mike Welch
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:18 AM, B Young <[url=mailto:byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com]byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: |
Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of drag and sticking.
 Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC world there are progressive led lights that respond to changing voltage.  Run 12 v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the center will vary from 0 to 12 volts when the pot is turned.   You could limit the travel of the wind vain to limit the possible output voltages, or put resistors in series with the 12 v and or ground terminals of the pot. This would keep the center outlet of the pot voltages within limits of the led light bar voltage indicator.
The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part by the max or min current requirements of the led voltage indicator. IE: a 5 k ohm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot.  The greater ohm value of the pot and still be able to drive the led volt indicator will consume the least amount of power.
Boyd young
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GeoB
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:25 pm Post subject: AOA |
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Run one wire to the arm. make a "board" with
| Quote: | 4 or five wires sticking through the board with a solder lump
|
I haven't thought this through.. but simply to enlarge on your idea, try a
TPS. Throttle Position Sensor. They come in all shapes and sizes. Basically
a rheostat.
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GeoB
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: AOA |
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If you used a pot, or the TPS you could drive the light-bar and/or a sound generator. It could be fancy or simple. You could use a 555 timer, the pot input could change the tone frequency. It isn't a sound chip but the output pulses can drive an earphone or amp or whatever. You can tailor the duty-cycle, the frequency of pulses, etc. there are interactive software tools available free that will tell you what values of caps, resistors and pots to use. And how to wire it. Is really simple.
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:27 pm Post subject: aoa |
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Mike,
How well do your AOA/LRI indicator work?
I have never flown an aircraft equipped with either instrument.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 11:30 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: aoa
From the depth of lurking mode, I am inspired to comment.
Boyd,
The "moving arm" doesn't touch any solder blobs. The device use a magnet flush mounted on the torpedo, and the circuitry detects the magnetism (without actually touching anything). It's known as the Hall Effect. If I'm correct, I rounded all of the electronic parts up about 4 years ago to build a few of these AOA indicators.
Regarding the small IC circuit with the 10 segment red/yellow/green LEDs, I have two of them, but on my AOA system I decided I wanted the visual impact MUCH more noticeable, so I built my own individual "10 red/yellow/green LEDs" using 5mm LEDs.
Bigger, longer, etc, etc. (I get my AOA function from my Dynon D10A, which has an audio alarm that I have wired into my intercom, thus I have bright LEDs and audio notification for an impending stall.)
Although an AOA indicator is very useful, a lift reserve indicator(LRI) is more useful, and much less, okay some less, to build. The LRI uses air pressure differential to determine when a wing is no longer flying. The LRI is always accurate because it measures the point at which the still begins, and factors such as weight, wing incidence, whatever, have no effect on it's accuracy.
I have already built one (a copy of a store bought unit, which I also have).). I have the gages and supplies to build 3 more.
Mike Welch
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:18 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of drag and sticking.
Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC world there are progressive led lights that respond to changing voltage. Run 12 v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the center will vary from 0 to 12 volts when the pot is turned. You could limit the travel of the wind vain to limit the possible output voltages, or put resistors in series with the 12 v and or ground terminals of the pot. This would keep the center outlet of the pot voltages within limits of the led light bar voltage indicator.
The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part by the max or min current requirements of the led voltage indicator. IE: a 5 k ohm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot. The greater ohm value of the pot and still be able to drive the led volt indicator will consume the least amount of power.
Boyd young
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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:23 pm Post subject: Aoa |
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I could imagine a group of Reed switches laid side to side with a 50 percent offset. One set on either side of the magnet. Pending on the physical sizes of the switches would determine the accuracy / resolution of the devise. .. A pots accuracy may depend on the size of the wire , and the tolerance in the led light bar. A 10 segment led bar set at 1 volt per segment, or a 10 segment bar at a quarter volt per segment.  Big difference.
Boyd
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: AOA |
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Repairing the wiring harness from the mags turned out to be really easy, ought to have the engine back on the airplane fairly soon, so I bit the bullet and ordered the three items linked here on ebay. If/when I come up with something worth looking at, I'll post it on the list. If it turns out to be useless, or a waste of time, I'll post that too.
| Richard Pike wrote: | Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge assembly? The sender typically uses an arm that changes angle and sends a signal; instead of the wire and float, make a counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount the gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and down at different vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge cover off and instead of empty and full, you paint on angles of attack up to stall.
You could try something like this first:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off everything you didn't need, the sender itself would be about 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge instead, one that went up and down, you could try something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed. And if you repainted the face and mounted it upside down, you have yellow and red at the top.
Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of your panel so it is in your immediate vision while you are on final:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane assembly light and responsive, finding the best airflow location, and doing some calibrating. |
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Rex Rodebush
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Branson West area, Missouri
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:48 am Post subject: Re: AOA |
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When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on the airspeed. An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an eye on; unless it has an audio warning. Then it would be very valuable. Without an audio warning I don't see the point.
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:51 am Post subject: AOA |
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On 1/20/2016 9:48 AM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
| Quote: |
When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on the airspeed. An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an eye on; unless it has an audio warning. Then it would be very valuable. Without an audio warning I don't see the point.
This might not be totally applicable to Kolbs due to their (relatively)
|
narrow speed range, but in the wider aviation world, you'd ignore
airspeed & monitor AOA. Reason is that 1G stall speed can change quite a
bit with gross weight, but angle of attack does not. Same applies to
optimum best angle and best rate in climb.
With the right kind of audio feedback, you wouldn't need to look in the
cockpit at all. You could devote all your attention to traffic, etc.
The toughest approach for landing is likely an aircraft carrier; Navy &
Marine a/c use AOA for approaches.
Charlie
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:08 am Post subject: AOA |
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There are 5/12 volt buzzers out there.. EBAY....and one could tap off
of the the output to the first red led in the schematic , whose link I
posted.. Herb
On 01/20/2016 10:50 AM, Charlie England wrote:
| Quote: |
On 1/20/2016 9:48 AM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
>
>
> When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on the
> airspeed. An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an eye on;
> unless it has an audio warning. Then it would be very valuable.
> Without an audio warning I don't see the point.
>
This might not be totally applicable to Kolbs due to their
(relatively) narrow speed range, but in the wider aviation world,
you'd ignore airspeed & monitor AOA. Reason is that 1G stall speed can
change quite a bit with gross weight, but angle of attack does not.
Same applies to optimum best angle and best rate in climb.
With the right kind of audio feedback, you wouldn't need to look in
the cockpit at all. You could devote all your attention to traffic, etc.
The toughest approach for landing is likely an aircraft carrier; Navy
& Marine a/c use AOA for approaches.
Charlie
|
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"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:33 am Post subject: AOA |
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On 1/20/2016 11:07 AM, Herb wrote:
| Quote: |
There are 5/12 volt buzzers out there.. EBAY....and one could tap off
of the the output to the first red led in the schematic , whose link I
posted.. Herb
On 01/20/2016 10:50 AM, Charlie England wrote:
>
>
> On 1/20/2016 9:48 AM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
>>
>>
>> When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on
>> the airspeed. An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an eye
>> on; unless it has an audio warning. Then it would be very
>> valuable. Without an audio warning I don't see the point.
>>
> This might not be totally applicable to Kolbs due to their
> (relatively) narrow speed range, but in the wider aviation world,
> you'd ignore airspeed & monitor AOA. Reason is that 1G stall speed
> can change quite a bit with gross weight, but angle of attack does
> not. Same applies to optimum best angle and best rate in climb.
>
> With the right kind of audio feedback, you wouldn't need to look in
> the cockpit at all. You could devote all your attention to traffic, etc.
>
> The toughest approach for landing is likely an aircraft carrier; Navy
> & Marine a/c use AOA for approaches.
>
> Charlie
>
>
Herb,
|
That could work (as long as you don't expect the LED current to drive a
buzzer), but you'd basically have just a stall warning horn. Might as
well just have a tabbed switch, like a Cessna.
With a proper voltage controlled oscillator, you can have a varying
pitch tone (even configured to beep at different speeds and intensity)
so that with practice, you can actually *hear* best angle, best climb,
approach, impending stall, etc, all tied to AOA meaning it would work at
any loading of the plane.
Those who are really interested might want to spend some time with
Google & read up on what AOA can do, and how it works.
Charlie
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:16 am Post subject: AOA |
|
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The current driving the led would not , by itself, operate the
buzzer....would require a Transistor..resistor or two..Herb
On 01/20/2016 11:34 AM, Charlie England wrote:
| Quote: |
On 1/20/2016 11:07 AM, Herb wrote:
>
>
> There are 5/12 volt buzzers out there.. EBAY....and one could tap
> off of the the output to the first red led in the schematic , whose
> link I posted.. Herb
>
> On 01/20/2016 10:50 AM, Charlie England wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 1/20/2016 9:48 AM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on
>>> the airspeed. An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an
>>> eye on; unless it has an audio warning. Then it would be very
>>> valuable. Without an audio warning I don't see the point.
>>>
>> This might not be totally applicable to Kolbs due to their
>> (relatively) narrow speed range, but in the wider aviation world,
>> you'd ignore airspeed & monitor AOA. Reason is that 1G stall speed
>> can change quite a bit with gross weight, but angle of attack does
>> not. Same applies to optimum best angle and best rate in climb.
>>
>> With the right kind of audio feedback, you wouldn't need to look in
>> the cockpit at all. You could devote all your attention to traffic,
>> etc.
>>
>> The toughest approach for landing is likely an aircraft carrier;
>> Navy & Marine a/c use AOA for approaches.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Herb,
That could work (as long as you don't expect the LED current to drive
a buzzer), but you'd basically have just a stall warning horn. Might
as well just have a tabbed switch, like a Cessna.
With a proper voltage controlled oscillator, you can have a varying
pitch tone (even configured to beep at different speeds and intensity)
so that with practice, you can actually *hear* best angle, best climb,
approach, impending stall, etc, all tied to AOA meaning it would work
at any loading of the plane.
Those who are really interested might want to spend some time with
Google & read up on what AOA can do, and how it works.
Charlie
|
--
Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller:
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
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