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701 no slats again

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billmileski

Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Ledyard, CT

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:13 am Post subject: 701 no slats again

Okay, I recently looked at http://www.stolspeed.com/content.php

and the claim there is that several 701's (in addition to Savannahs) are flying with VGs and no slats, with similar, or even improved STOL, climb, stability and glide characteristics.  The web site author has a Savannah, but I don't know if his own results are completely applicable to the 701 (didn't someone say recently that the airfoil is different?).



I emailed the seller of the VGs and haven't heard back yet.  Is there any experience on this list that would support or refute these claims?



Curiously,



Bill Mileski

Connecticut

jnjkimbell(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject: 701 no slats again

Bill, I have a 701 and this looks like something I am going to try.  I 

contacted the owner of stolspeed and he is in the process of making it 

possible to order his vg's.  As soon as I get them and try them, I will 

report to the list the results.  Of course, I do not plan to remove the 

attachements holding the slats until all tests are done.   Joe from Florida

---

pacificpainting(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject: 701 no slats again

Just curious, but why don't you want the slats?



---

jean-paul.roy4(at)tlb.sym
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: 701 no slats again

I would be reluctant to try these out. If the 701 was meant to fly with VG's

and without slats, I'd bet Chris would have designed it that way.

Just my opinion of course.

do not archive



Jean-Paul Roy

working on wings

---

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: 701 no slats again

Joe, 

 I would be interested in the results also.

  

 Bob Spudis

 N701ZX

 CH701/912S/86 hrs

  

  

  

 In a message dated 10/31/2006 3:46:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  jnjkimbell(at)HOTMAIL.COM writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe and Joan"    <jnjkimbell(at)hotmail.com>



Bill, I have a 701 and this looks like    something I am going to try.  I 

contacted the owner of stolspeed and    he is in the process of making it 

possible to order his vg's.  As    soon as I get them and try them, I will 

report to the list the    results.  Of course, I do not plan to remove the 

attachements holding    the slats until all tests are done.   Joe from Florida

-----    Original Message ----- 

From: "billmileski"    <mileski(at)sonalysts.com>

To:    <zenith-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 2:13    PM

Subject: 701 no slats again

	


 

  

  [quote][b]

billmileski

Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Ledyard, CT

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: 701 no slats again

It's not that I don't want the slats, it's just that the claim of increased efficiency and retention of STOL characteristics is intriguing.  The website seems pretty sincere, and I have since exchanged email with an Aussie 701 owner who has logged 100+ hours with VGs instead of slats, and is happier with the performance.



 	  Quote: 	
		  

Just curious, but why don't you want the slats?

	




And I will definitely keep my ear out for you Joe if you give it a try.



 	  Quote: 	
		  

Bill, I have a 701 and this looks like something I am going to try.

	




Bill

billmileski

Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Ledyard, CT

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: 701 no slats again

One more thing, Joe,



Be sure to check (or at least consider) the weight and balance if you decide to try it.. I was reminded by the factory that removing slats will move the CG rearward, as they have some weight and they are forward of the CG.



By the way the factory clearly discourages this configuration.  However I am considering giving it a try too when the VGs are available.  Several people have tried it without the VGs and reported bad results, but survived, and duplicating the VG installation probably limits the risk quite a bit.



Bill

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: 701 no slats again

On trhe subject of antenna placment,  I have decided to put the elt antennae on top at the back of the luggage area.  The Comm antennae, I decided to put a 45 degree nbend antennae under the copilot seat between the wing stut and the landing gear, so the antennae will not be  seen  and on the bottom.  ANy one else place it there?

Txspr antennae just behind firewall on bottom.

Juan



--

JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:13 pm Post subject: 701 no slats again

Hello list, It is unlikely that a non slat wing will have the climb angle  of a slatted wing. If you disagree with the Heintz design then do your own then  you will understand.

  

 John Read

  [quote][b]

John Bolding

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 281

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:39 am Post subject: 701 no slats again

I would like to leave off the slats for several  reasons. 

  

 First, I don't have to build them ,mount  them,or maintain them. Second would be the fact that the airplane would  weigh less. Third would be less places for salt water (float operations) to find  a way inside the wing. Forth, it MIGHT go "faster" , actually the same speed on  less power would be a better way to put it as we are not too far from the vne  anyway.

  

  

  

 It has been noted on another 701 list that the same  high lift airfoil WITHOUT slats (65018) can be incorporated into  a wing under construction with the forming of just the nose rib. This make  more sense to me than just taking off the slats as you then have an unproven  airfoil. However there seems to be a fair amount of testing going on now so  maybe it's not really "unproven" any longer. 

  

  

 Hopefully, someone with a flying 701 with an itch  to build something will knock out a set of wings with no slats to put a real  world test on the theory. Of course, it COULD be done like  Wittman used to do things and just build ONE wing. Easy to compare then but  I don't have the stones for THAT !!

 One of my friends put VG's on his Legal Eagle  ultralight (4414 airfoil) and the angle of attack before stall almost  doubled so there IS a lot of potential. Same guy just finished his 701 so maybe  he's the fellow for this project.

  

 I guess what it all boils down to is... Do the  VG's impart the same 

 energy to the air going over the top of the wing as  the slats? Gonna be interesting to see how this shakes out. LOW&SLOW   John Bolding

  

  

 



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Just curious, but why don't you want the  slats?

 


	




    [quote][b]

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:59 am Post subject: 701 no slats again

My ELT is right where you want yours to be, My com is just behind the trap door on the bottom of the rear fuse and my transponder is where you want to place yours. All positions work great for me on my 801.. 

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> wrote:

--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>

On trhe subject of antenna placment,  I have decided to put the elt antennae on top at the back of the luggage area.  The Comm antennae, I decided to put a 45 degree nbend antennae under the copilot seat between the wing stut and the landing gear, so the antennae will not be  seen  and on the bottom.  ANy one else place it there?

Txspr antennae just behind firewall on bottom.

Juan



--

billmileski

Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Ledyard, CT

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:41 am Post subject: Re: 701 no slats again

The thought is that although the slat allows dramatically increased angle of attack, and associated lift coefficient, it also creates a tremendous amount of drag.  This drag could be reducing climb rate.  Vortex generators are only now being freely experimented with (maybe I'm mistaken here), and the results are so encouraging that perhaps they apply well to the un-slatted airfoil, and produce an overall similar, or improved performance envelope.  I don't have the answers, but your comment sounds like a guess as well.



One thing that is nice about the normal configuration is the rate at which speed bleeds off in the flare, as I've gotten into a pretty short ultralight strip and certainly not worried about floating.



Bill



 	  Quote: 	
		  Hello list, It is unlikely that a non slat wing will have the climb angle of a slatted wing. If you disagree with the Heintz design then do your own then you will understand.

jnjkimbell(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:33 am Post subject: 701 no slats again

Dave, if I can get the same landing and TO numbers and also get an extra 5 

to 8 Knts cruise, who wouldn't.

---

pacificpainting(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject: 701 no slats again

I don't really know anything about the slats except what I have read here. 

No criticism, just curious. I won't build my 801 without them, but it's all 

about what you want to do or not do.

---

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject: 701 no slats again

you will probably get more of a ten knot increase if you put fairing  on struts, and if you  are hell bent on Mods , change the airfoil on the elevator to a more asymetrical Foil,



Juan



--

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:54 pm Post subject: 701 no slats again

thanx,

Juan 



DO NOT ARCHIVE



--

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