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Tool Questions

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rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: Tool Questions

I'm getting ready to take the RV10 plunge and will be ordering my kit and tools after Christmas just before the price increase takes effect.



I've heard nothing but good things about Shaun Isham and Bob Avery and their respective companies.  It appears that I can't go too wrong with either option.   I'm interested in getting a pnuematic squeezer and a DRDT-2 from the start.



One comment that Shaun made was to get the back riveting plate locally.  He is of the belief that the 3/8" plate that both he and Avery sells is not thick enough.



Not having done any back riveting before, I have no clue as to whom to believe.



Question 1:  What are the recommedations for a plate for back riveting?  is the 3/8" thick plate thick enough?



Question 2:  any reason why I shouldn't purchase from either one of these vendors?  Or is it truly a flip of the coin?



thanks,



bob



Soon to be RV10 builder

N410BL

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

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_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:44 am Post subject: Tool Questions

Bob,



I used Cleaveland tools plate and it worked just fine, I believe it's 3/8" as well. The hassel of hunting down the plate then getting it polished up is not worth IMHO. FWIW, if the plate is not polished it will transfer any marks to your skins. 



It's more important to make sure the plate is solidly supported than the actual thickness. A solid bench & top is a must. Good move on the pneumatic squeezer, I wouldn't do it without one, others swear by their hand squeezer though. Avery always provided good service, never used the other vendor you mentioned. Not a whole lot of back riveting to be done really, but it's the most fun to do. I did more back riveting with the dumbbell looking, 3lb bar from Avery to include the entire top wing skins and tail cone.



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

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_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:44 am Post subject: Tool Questions

Regarding the back riveting plate I think they probably meant 3/16", the 

big issue with the back riveting plates that the tool guys sell is not 

so much the thickness, but the length and width dimensions, because they 

are relatively small approx 3-4 " by 8-10" it is too easy when back 

riveting to not have the plate under the head of the rivet and that 

makes for !(at)(at)$##(at)$ and ugly impressions in your pristine skins! If you 

have a metal supply/scrap yard in your area, go to them and you will 

probably be able to find a plate of 3/16 - 1/4" thick material that is 

already cut, I found one about 16" x 20" which worked fine,  Take your 

belt sander to it and clean off any 'scale' or roughness, it will be a 

lot cheaper than the tool guys plate and serve you better, I hear 

Alexander's have one in their shop which is inlaid in a bench which is 

even larger.



Deems Davis # 406

Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )

http://deemsrv10.com/

back to sanding, filling, sanding.filling, sanding, ......................



rvmail(at)thelefflers.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



I'm getting ready to take the RV10 plunge and will be ordering my kit and tools after Christmas just before the price increase takes effect.



I've heard nothing but good things about Shaun Isham and Bob Avery and their respective companies.  It appears that I can't go too wrong with either option.   I'm interested in getting a pnuematic squeezer and a DRDT-2 from the start.



One comment that Shaun made was to get the back riveting plate locally.  He is of the belief that the 3/8" plate that both he and Avery sells is not thick enough.



Not having done any back riveting before, I have no clue as to whom to believe.



Question 1:  What are the recommedations for a plate for back riveting?  is the 3/8" thick plate thick enough?



Question 2:  any reason why I shouldn't purchase from either one of these vendors?  Or is it truly a flip of the coin?



thanks,



bob



Soon to be RV10 builder

N410BL

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:12 am Post subject: Tool Questions

Don't forget that special RV10 elevator bucking bar(Cleaveland, I think) 

used for backriveting the Tailcone.  No complex curves on that tailcone mean 

a long bar can hold about ten rivets at once, back rivet...shot then like 

ducks in a pond.(maybe more like ducks with clipped wings)



I am not a hunter so I don't know if that made any sense.

John

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Tool Questions

Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 10:43:48 -0800 (GMT-08:00)






Bob,



I used Cleaveland tools plate and it worked just fine, I believe it's 3/8" 

as well. The hassel of hunting down the plate then getting it polished up 

is not worth IMHO. FWIW, if the plate is not polished it will transfer any 

marks to your skins.



It's more important to make sure the plate is solidly supported than the 

actual thickness. A solid bench & top is a must. Good move on the pneumatic 

squeezer, I wouldn't do it without one, others swear by their hand squeezer 

though. Avery always provided good service, never used the other vendor you 

mentioned. Not a whole lot of back riveting to be done really, but it's the 

most fun to do. I did more back riveting with the dumbbell looking, 3lb bar 

from Avery to include the entire top wing skins and tail cone.



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:37 am Post subject: Tool Questions

Bob;

I, like you, have not started but I have done extensive, and I mean 

extensive research on tools. My advice, if you are looking to save money on 

tools and get the same quality than shop around. If you want one stop 

shopping than here is that feedback:

A well known RV builder, RV teacher and really sharp guy gave me the 

following advice:



Tools.  My advice is to steer clear of Isham's.  I've heard too many things 

about how he's selling NON-new stuff and calling it new.  Talk to Fred 

Kunkel at Clear Air Tools (http://www.clearairtools.com).  Fred is THE MAN 

when it comes to aircraft tools.  Nobody knows pneumatic stuff like Fred 

does.  He has a kit now (he didn't used to offer a real kit) that is 

extremely competitive.  Better price when you add it all up than what Avery 

offers.  Again, I'm not finanically affiliated with Fred at all.  Just 

calling it like I see it.  I recommend buying a kit from either Fred or 

Avery.  You won't be disappointed either way there.  My 2 cents is -- call 

Fred regardless, though, and ask him for his RV builder tool kit pricing. 

Shop around and I think you'll find his setup is pretty darn good.  If I 

were starting over, knowing what I know now, I'd order from Fred.  Nothing 

wrong with Avery's stuff either if that's the way you go.

I don't know how valid Isham's moral marketing is,  but I will tell you I 

have heard this from a few other "in the know" people. In his defense I have 

also heard great feedback from people who have purchased from Isham's.



Cleveland has equally good tools as Avery, Brown tools has the cheapest 

pneumatic squeezer with the respective 2'',3'', and 4'' yokes as well as an 

air drill I highly recommend, Sioux 1412, Cleartools has a great squeezer 

package deal as well, he (Fred (at) cleartools) is great to talk to and will 

give honest feedback telling you that you can buy from anyone regardless of 

the time he will spend with you. The Yard Store and Brown tools have good 

tools and are less expensive than any of the other vendors.

I myself will spend less than 2K and have the best tools, why? because I am 

comparison shopping and buying everything that is the least (yet best) 

quality from practically every vendor out there. Cleveland, for example, has 

the best price on the 3M Deburring wheel right now, a while ago they had an 

equally good deal on the Sioux drill.

Time is money but for me researching the tools also teaches me why I even 

need each to start with and when I start the -10 in 2007 I will know the 

right tool for each piece.

Best of success on this project!

Pascal

---

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

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Todd.Stovall(at)pentagon.
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: Tool Questions

I used both the plate that came with my tool kit plus one (actually two

I made myself).   The one that came with the kit I used to set rivets on

the rudder stiffners because it was easier to move the plate around than

the skin.  When I did the rudder trailing edge, I used the ones I made

out of 2"x36"x3/16 steel pieces that I bought at Home Depot.  I polished

one side and countersunk them in-line into the edge of my work table.

Worked just fine when I set those double-flush rivets.



I also have the DRDT-2 and a pneumatic squeezer.  Both highly

recommended.  I also have the Cleaveland "Main Squeeze" hand-squeezer.

It works well and is faster to setup than the pneumatic.  In fact I was

originally going to forgo the pneumatic until I went to squeeze my first

4-7 rivet.  Let's just say I had about a 4-day work stoppage until the

pneumatic arrived.



Todd

#40631

Final drilling the HS skins



--

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Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: Tool Questions

John,



That special "elevator" bucking bar is, in my really humble opinion here, ESSENTIAL for doing the fuselage forward section...of course sombody will chime in about how they modified a fingernail clipper for that part and it worked just as good....Buy it, use it, love it!!!



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

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