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iworonko(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

Hi folks,

I am getting ready to buy a PDA with intent of using it as a nav GPS. Searching the internet for aviation GPS software for a PDA left me confused and frustrated. Is anyone out there using a PDA for navigation?

If so,which software and how would you rate it.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Eric

n10pg(at)neo.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

Hi Eric:

I have a HP Ipac with Anywhere Map software. Have had it for several years

and love it.

Peter Graichen

http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm  



--

Aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:51 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

I have seen two that look pretty good and the price is dropping....

 

_Anywhere Map - Aviation GPS with  Weather_ (http://www.anywheremap.com/)  

 

_NAVAir Moving Map and EFB_ (http://www.airgator.com/)  

 

 

I have a Garmin IQue 3600 as a PDA/GPS (street)  and a Garmin 195 for  Nav  

plus GPS in Plane...  all work great.

 

I really like the idea of WX.  I have played with the 396 and its  fantastic. 

 I do also have Pilot MY Cast for weather and TFR on my   phone......

 

Gee  I am personally leaning towards Anywhere Map with WX bluetooth  

version... 4705

 

last year it was around 2,200 now 1,700.   

 

I would love to hear from users too....

 

Dave

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

Hi Eric,

  I guess I can throw my two cent responce in as that's about what it is worth. I have done similar research looking at PDA's , GPS's, package deals, etc. This was about a year ago so I'm sure things have changed a bit, but at the time the Compaq Ipaq had the most going for it. I have used Palm PDA's for some time due to business applications used, but I was a bit miffed that Palm (or third party vendors) didn't keep up to speed with the aviation applications like I was seeing on the PC based units.

  A question might be asked here...Why would you be interested in getting a PDA, The GPS that attaches to it, the software that works between the two and deal with the wires that will go between when there are so many aviation GPS units that are both portable and capable? Just curious,

  Dan

  Mesa, AZ

  www.azshowersolutions.com/Kitfox1.html



Eric <iworonko(at)cox.net> wrote:

  



Hi folks,

I am getting ready to buy a PDA with intent of using it as a nav GPS. Searching the internet for aviation GPS software for a PDA left me confused and frustrated. Is anyone out there using a PDA for navigation?

If so,which software and how would you rate it.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Eric

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: PDA Gps

I'm currently in the process of installing a PDA gps solution. It's been quite a learning experience. Here are the major points.



For a PDA, I went with a Dell Axim 3i because it seemed like the sweet spot for me in terms of price/performance. I picked it up on Ebay with some accessories for $120. Now that I have it set up, I wish I had gone with something more powerful. Panning is very slow when zoomed out past 20 miles. 



For a GPS sensor, I picked the Garmin GPS 18 hooked via a serial cable. A Bluetooth sensor would have been easier to install but I didn’t want to deal with batteries and a Bluetooth enabled PDA would have been more expensive. If you’re going to wire the sensor to the airplane’s power buss, there’s no advantage to the Bluetooth sensor because you’re running wires anyway.



Don’t forget to budget some extra flash memory for the PDA to fit all the charts. Also, if don’t go with the Bluetooth sensor, you will need an interface cable to go from the PDA to the GPS (prices vary quite a bit depending on the model of the PDA).



One wrinkle I had was wiring power to the PDA (again, I didn’t want to deal with having to keep the PDA’s battery charged). Normally, the cigarette lighter style power adapter will contain a voltage regulator to adapt the 12V vehicle power to the 5V that the PDA needs. I wanted a more permanent setup with all the wires behind the panel so I had to put in my own voltage regulator in line with the power going to PDA.



Last but not least is the software. I went with Pocket FMS mainly because it was free. There are some nicer looking packages out there but they can be as much as $500. At that price, I would have just gone with a Garmin 296. It does a decent job but I still make it a point to not depend on it too much. 



Hope this all helps.



-Luis

Last edited by wingnut on Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

fultz(at)trip.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

Eric,



  I don't know much about the other offerings out there, but I, too, have

had ANYWHERE MAP for a few years now and I'm still pleased with the results

I get.  If I were to do it again I would definately go with ANYWHERE MAP

again.



Andy F.

Subject: PDA Gps




Hi folks,

I am getting ready to buy a PDA with intent of using it as a nav GPS.

Searching the internet for aviation GPS software for a PDA left me confused

and frustrated. Is anyone out there using a PDA for navigation?

If so,which software and how would you rate it.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Eric

fredshiple(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

In the past 6 months The Aviation Consumer reviewed

the 5 or 6 major players and indicated the PDA in the

cockpit is not ready for prime time. The biggest

concern was viewability in direct sunlight. I stayed

with my Garmin.

Fred

Jim Shumaker

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 106

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

Eric

   

  I have been flying with the Ipaq and Anywhere map for several years.  

   

  It requires hard-wires for power and gps and interfacing.

   

  It is a computer so it will crash on you.  

   

  It requires upgrading and maintenance and it has several modes of failure.

   

  The Garmin 295 is similar and much less likely to fail.  

   

  The latest Ipaq PDA and a gig of memory is the MINIMUM for effective use.

   

  Since reliability is so requisite for aviation use, a dedicated unit like a 295 is much more sensible.

   

  If you cannot be talked out of getting one then here are the advantages.  It can be hardwired into the panel on a mount, and then easily removed for upgrades or other uses.

   

  As a computer the software can be easily upgraded and it can serve more than one purpose.  New upgrades are downloaded.  You can carry charts and taxiway position is indicated while taxiing.  Instrument approaches and holds are stored and very usable for those hazy days.  You do not need to replace the whole unit when things like weather are a useful upgrade.  

   

  Even though the software is upgraded by subscription and makes it more versatile, the Ipaq still needs to be replaced when the software slows the operation.   I have an Ipaq 3800 which is just 4 years old and it needs t be replaced because it is getting to be too slow.

   

  To summarize;  the Ipaq with Anywhere Map is an incredible system that beats all the competition hands down.  But the system uses a PDA which is just a personal computer with all the quirks, foibles and shortcomings of being a general purpose computer.  If you want a reliable, useful GPS get a dedicated unit.  

   

  The guy that talked me into getting mine is a Citation Chauffeur.  He has a glass cockpit with two moving maps, and a backup on the panel.  He and the copilot each have their own Ipaqs on Anywhere Map.  Then he has two tablet that are dedicated to weight and balance and flight planning.  So yes the Anywhere map has features that are not on other software. 

   

  Hope this helps

   

  Jim Shumaker

_________________
Jim Shumaker

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: PDA Gps

I agree that you can't compare reliability of a PDA/GPS to a Garmin but aren't we supposed to always practice good pilotage no matter what's in the pannel? Also, there's one advantage to the PDA that you didn't mention. You can get a moving map for 1/10 the price. I have $250 total invested in my setup and I get the use the PDA for other functions. Performance is only an issue if I zoom out too far so I just keep the zoom level down to 10 miles or so and it's fine.

iworonko(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

Thank you all for all the PDA GPS responses. Looks like I will probably go 

with Anywhere Map installed on a Dell X51V . That little PDA is a real Hot 

Rod with Bluetooth and WiFi technology. With WiFi it can double as a handy 

computer while traveling.

Eric

---

Jim Shumaker

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 106

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

While I don't disagree with good pilotage as being requisite, I do not want things quitting on me when they are needed.  As a case in point, I was flying Young Eagles for our EAA chapter about a year ago.  The weather was hazy, visibility 10 no overcast.  I was flying an extended pattern with the kids that took about 17 minutes from take-off to landing.  On downwind I was number 3 for landing.  By the time I could turn for final, the airport was below IFR minimums.  As soon as I landed, the tower announced that the airport was IFR.  I was low enough to scud run low enough to see the ground, even though the horizon was not descernable.  My kitfox is not IFR rated and neither am I.  The option of flying to another airport was a very poor choice.  If they had said the airport was IFR I would have declared an emergency and landed anyway.  This is a time when the Gyro, and Vor were nice but the GPS was invaluable.  Also a time when reliability was a high prioraty.  

   

  I like flying with the Ipaq with anywhere map for all the options and upgradibility.  But a friend of mine bought the same setup and had enough problems with memory cards and upgrades that he does not even bother to fly with it.  In his case the Garmin is a much better value.

   

  Jim Shumaker

  



wingnut <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> wrote:

  



I agree that you can't compare reliability of a PDA/GPS to a Garmin but aren't we supposed to always practice good pilotage no matter what's in the pannel? Also, there's one advantage to the PDA that you didn't mention. You can get a moving map for 1/10 the price. I have $250 total invested in my setup and I get the use the PDA for other functions. Performance is only an issue if I zoom out too far so I just keep the zoom level down to 10 miles or so and it's fine.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13430#13430

_________________
Jim Shumaker

Aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:03 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

In a message dated 2/20/2006 10:55:32 P.M. Central Standard Time,  

jimshumaker(at)sbcglobal.net writes:



While I  don't disagree with good pilotage as being requisite, I do not want 

things  quitting on me when they are needed.  As a case in point, I was flying 

 Young Eagles for our EAA chapter about a year ago.  The weather was hazy,  

visibility 10 no overcast.  I was flying an extended pattern with the  kids 

that took about 17 minutes from take-off to landing.  On downwind I  was number 3 

for landing.  By the time I could turn for final, the  airport was below IFR 

minimums.  As soon as I landed, the tower announced  that the airport was IFR. 

 I was low enough to scud run low enough to see  the ground, even though the 

horizon was not descernable.  My kitfox is  not IFR rated and neither am I.  

The option of flying to another airport  was a very poor choice.  If they had 

said the airport was IFR I would  have declared an emergency and landed anyway. 

 This is a time when the  Gyro, and Vor were nice but the GPS was invaluable. 

 Also a time when  reliability was a high prioraty.  



I like  flying with the Ipaq with anywhere map for all the options and  

upgradibility.  But a friend of mine bought the same setup and had enough  problems 

with memory cards and upgrades that he does not even bother to fly  with it.  

In his case the Garmin is a much better  value.



I love my 2 Garmins... but my 195 had to be sent in twice because it would  

keep quitting in flight.  Now its fine.

 

I suppose nothing is perfect or 100%.  I assume the newer PDA is  better and 

more powerfull than older one...

One thing for sure, I do not depend on it. I always have a spare GPS plus  

VOR on my Kitfox, plus I like map reading.  

 

:-[)

 

Dave KF 2  plus warrior 2

bmwebb(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:51 am Post subject: PDA Gps

Garmin 295? Not at the price of gold! I just purchased an Apollo Precedus

kit, with everything including a very nice Yoke mount (where's that yoke in

my K'fox? Must'a misread the plans!) Any way, I paid $75 for it, and the

d-base update is $100. Look around, you can get by for much less than a

$1000 Garmin.



Face it, we ain't flying a Boeing. I don't see any real need for the big

guns in this plane.



..Unless you fly other airplanes as well (why would you fly anything else?

Once you go 'fox, you'll never go back).



Bradley

KF2 N1836

Middle GA



--

algate(at)attglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: PDA Gps

I have the Garmin 196 and recall taking off from a lake early one morning

when there was quite a lot of fog around but it appeared to be thin and when

you looked straight up you could see faint blue sky. I made the decision to

take off as I knew the area well and figured I wouldn't have any problems.



Although the fog was relatively light looking straight up when I took off I

my vision was parallel with the fog rather than perpendicular and I lost all

visibility. 



In panel mode the Garmin 196 has replication of critical instruments so I

was able to switch to the panel mode and I just concentrated on the turn and

bank to keep my wings level and flew for about a minute like that until I

broke out into sunny skies.



Doesn't sound like much but at the time it seemed an eternity and I was

pretty thankful for the Garmin 196.



GaryA

Lite2/582



--

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:39 am Post subject: Re: PDA Gps

Wow.. You took off with zero visibility? I guess if I where going to bet my life on it, I'd go for the best hardware I can buy as well. 



-Luis

algate(at)attglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:51 am Post subject: PDA Gps

Maybe you misunderstood - not Zero visibility but a misconception that was

caused by looking straight up with a bright sky to backlight the fog vs

flying forward into marginal light conditions.



In about 700 hrs of flying my Kitfox on skis, floats and wheels in Northern

Canada I figure I am allowed 1 marginal judgement call - my point being that

the Garmin does offer additional advantages over PDA's but at a cost.



I'm sure you will never put yourself in the same situation as I did



GaryA

Lite2/582



--

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: Re: PDA Gps

I didn't mean to criticize. I think I'm still a little confused about your particular scenario but I guess your point is that, no matter how careful you are, sooner or later every pilot is going to experience IMC. But, if we're talking about the relative reliability between a Garmin x96 vrs a PDA/GPS then, what are the odds though that the PDA is going to pick that particular moment to fail on you? 



I suppose that, in that moment of truth, every pilot will wish he had a G1000 in his kitfox. I guess it all boils down to taking a serious look at the cost vrs the benefit. The right decision will depend on your particular situation.

bmwebb(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: PDA Gps

Roger that! Me? I dream I'm that guy in Fandango! with the grafitti'd 172

and the bird nests in the back. I gotta stop drinking so early! LOL 



I was mostly referring to the cost. They are very nice units!



Mine is velcro'd to the panel. I'm going to add a small wedge to angle it

more toward me, to reduce the glare a bit.



Bradley



--

bmwebb(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:37 am Post subject: PDA Gps

Word of warning. If you think that panel page on the Garmin units allow you

to fly IFR, you're nuts. If that's all you got, ok. In an emergency, you do

what you gotta. A drowning man will even grab for a glass of water! But DO

NOT lead people to believe that they can put one of these on their panel and

fly into the muck.



You made a bad choice to take off into that, and you should have known the

consequences of doing so. Having that Garmin is not a replacement for common

sense. CFIT is the number two killer in GA, fuel is number one. Too many fly

way over their heads, and many have paid for it.



I appreciate your input, but shame on you.

Bradley

--

algate(at)attglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:48 am Post subject: PDA Gps

Sometimes I think people either don't read these postings or are just

downright rude.



Please take the time to re-read my post and note that it was a comment on my

experience and in no way suggested that others should enter IFR flight

without being appropriately equipped. I have spoken to many pilots over the

years with vast experience and the funny thing is that each one has had an

interesting experience to share where they have made "not so prudent"

choices and have learned from their experience. Had they not been so

forthcoming I'm sure a lot of this experience would continue to be wasted

and the same mistakes repeated.



Conditions change fast in Northern Canada and what starts out to be marginal

or even perfect conditions can change quickly. We often encounter snow

squalls which can  rapidly reduce visibility on the clearest day but we gain

experience and learn to fly safely within our capabilities.  In this

instance the Garmin proved to be a valuable asset that maybe another pilot

may not consider under similar conditions. This posting may well come to

mind at such a time and allow him or her another option.



Maybe some other pilot may look out on a mildly foggy day and rather than

take off think - " I remember someone saying that even though it appears

fine looking vertically when I fly into it on a parallel course my

visibility will be reduced". That same pilot might decide to wait an hour

and avert the conditions I flew into.



This list often offers an incredible source of information and I usually

monitor in the background in this instance I'm sorry Mr Web I don't believe

that I really need to feel any shame about my comments. I also don't

normally respond to this sort of negative stimulus - I guess I must be

having a bad day. 



GaryA



Quote

You made a bad choice to take off into that, and you should have known the

consequences of doing so. Having that Garmin is not a replacement for common

sense. CFIT is the number two killer in GA, fuel is number one. Too many fly

way over their heads, and many have paid for it.



I appreciate your input, but shame on you.

Bradley

--

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