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lsbrv7a(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject: Electric Flaps option |
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The maximum safe controllability occurs at <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Va.
| Quote: | The RV-6 is not the most stable of planes at slow speeds and the
flaps do
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| Quote: | make it MUCH better on the final approach.
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Do not archive Do not archive
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Wings
Idaho Falls
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42974/*http://www.yahoo.com/preview] Check it out.[/url] [quote][b]
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FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:19 am Post subject: Electric Flaps option |
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In a message dated 8/18/06 9:49:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com writes:
| Quote: | Just goes to show that it doesn't take a whole lot of sense to become
a CFII/ATP. I don't believe in 5 kts over stall either, but 80 knots
over the fence is unsafe and stupid.
do not archive
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
==============
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OK, Larry:
You made the statement now explain why?
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
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jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:26 am Post subject: Electric Flaps option |
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FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | -
5 - I have always preferred MANUAL FLAPS but both RV-6's I fly have electric
flaps. They are acceptable. But, I still prefer Manual.
Why? I lost all electric and could not deploy the flaps.
When was the last time you practiced a ZERO FLAP landing?
Did you hit the numbers?
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After flying 300 hours with manual flaps I installed electric and never
have looked back, it is a whole lot easier to
deploy the flaps without hitting your passenger in the ribs.
| Quote: | I read the spec sheet too and seen what they say about how SLOW the stall
speed is. I was also taught by a CFII/ATP that has 2000 Hours in RV-6's. His
answer was: "You want to fly 5 Kts over Stall on approach? Not with Me or My
Plane! 80 Kts over the fence!"
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80 kts over the fence is way to fast, I use about 70-75 MPH.
| Quote: | The RV-6 is not the most stable of planes at slow speeds and the flaps do
make it MUCH better on the final approach.
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I don't find that to be true at all, flaps do help to slow down but
that is about all they do. I don't find they do anything for stability.
| Quote: | And before you guys light your flame throwers. I have about 250 Hours in
RV-6's, just don't expect them to fly like a C-150. My comments are REAL and you
have to keep it real if you don't want to bend any metal.
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I don't expect it to fly like a 150 my RV-6 flies much better than a 150
and that is real, BTW I have been flying mine for 18 years. 
| Quote: |
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Jerry
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do not archive
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n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.c
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:53 am Post subject: Electric Flaps option |
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On Aug 19, 2006, at 4:18 AM, FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: |
In a message dated 8/18/06 9:49:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com writes:
> Just goes to show that it doesn't take a whole lot of sense to become
> a CFII/ATP. I don't believe in 5 kts over stall either, but 80
> knots
> over the fence is unsafe and stupid.
>
> do not archive
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
==============
OK, Larry:
You made the statement now explain why?
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
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I wasn't tactful, but it hit a nerve. When I was about 14 and a real
airplane nerd, I rode in the back seat of a 172 while my dad took
flying lessons. The instructor had him approaching at 77 knots (90
mph in those days). Well this is about 20 knots too fast and I
observed first hand the drawbacks. It is very hard to land this
way. Somehow you have to get rid of all the speed and it takes a
long time and uses a lot of runway. Transitioning from 80 knots to
45 knots while transitioning into ground effect with the attendant
nose down pitching and all the while maintaining a precise height is
not trivial. Meantime you are exposed to all the vagaries of wind
gusts and thermals and many times people just lose patience and go
ahead and dump it on the nosegear.
I have watched quite a few of these too fast approaches in RVs,
cringing all the while. Most times they get away with it, sometimes
they don't. Locally, two pilots have ended up with their RVs on
their back at the conclusion of first flights. I don't know, but do
strongly suspect the ole dump it unto the nose wheel after a too fast
approach because I have seen that several times from pilots with
experience in the airplanes. When the approach is at the proper
speed, it is a much easier and more natural transition to the proper
landing attitude, just a bit more back pressure does it.
I previously mentioned the other big problem, you can't land anywhere
but on a overlong runway. Again, I have seen this problem first
hand. When you are having to slam on the brakes at the end of a
2,000 foot runway, something is bad wrong. When you can't get
stopped at all on such a runway and have an expensive repair bill,
you will wish you used the correct approach speed.
By the way some of this does not apply to tailwheel airplanes. You
can, for your own amusement, land a tailwheel airplane at just about
any speed, safely, if the runway is long enough.
do not archive
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
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flyrv6(at)bryantechnology
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:08 am Post subject: Electric Flaps option |
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I got to ask of any. What are the best speeds for landing?
start the approach, slow to ?
maintain this till final
Then on final slow to ? over the fence?
Assuming tail wheel and constant speed rv-6
Tim
[i]----
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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:21 am Post subject: Electric Flaps option |
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Larry Pardue wrote:
| Quote: |
On Aug 19, 2006, at 4:18 AM, FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 8/18/06 9:49:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com writes:
>
>> Just goes to show that it doesn't take a whole lot of sense to become
>> a CFII/ATP. I don't believe in 5 kts over stall either, but 80 knots
>> over the fence is unsafe and stupid.
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> Larry Pardue
>> Carlsbad, NM
>>
> ==============
> OK, Larry:
>
> You made the statement now explain why?
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
<snipped>
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| Quote: | I previously mentioned the other big problem, you can't land anywhere
but on a overlong runway. Again, I have seen this problem first
hand. When you are having to slam on the brakes at the end of a
2,000 foot runway, something is bad wrong. When you can't get
stopped at all on such a runway and have an expensive repair bill,
you will wish you used the correct approach speed.
By the way some of this does not apply to tailwheel airplanes. You
can, for your own amusement, land a tailwheel airplane at just about
any speed, safely, if the runway is long enough.
do not archive
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
|
I'd take exception to even that. Want to see my wall ornament, created
*by my CFI* when he tried to land my RV-4 at around 90 kts? At that
speed, the tail is so high that the slightest gust or stick movement,
soft spot, etc can put the prop in the dirt.
More important, as Larry & I both hinted at, if you always come in that
fast you aren't likely to survive an off-airport landing unless you fly
over the CA dry lakes or Bonneville salt flats.
The hardest thing for me, even after ~10 years of flying -4's, is making
myself fly final *slow* enough.
Charlie
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Jerry Cochran
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Wilsonville, OR
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:37 am Post subject: Electric flaps option |
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I have considered going back to manual flaps after having two flap motor failures in the first 300 hours... Luckily, both happened close to home. First was with flaps up, so I got to make an unrehearsed no flaps landing, which was a non-event. The second was flaps down, refused to retract after landing, also at home base. I could imagine being someplace and flying along at 90 knots C-150 style for an hour or three...
So I became somewhat of an expert on flap motor cleaning/replacement. To Van's credit, they replaced the motor second time around, no troubles since... (fingers crossed),,,
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
RV6a
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ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: Electric flaps option |
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At 10:35 AM 8/19/2006, you wrote:
| Quote: | | I have considered going back to manual flaps after having two flap motor failures in the first 300 hours... Luckily, both happened close to home. First was with flaps up, so I got to make an unrehearsed no flaps landing, which was a non-event. The second was flaps down, refused to retract after landing, also at home base. I could imagine being someplace and flying along at 90 knots C-150 style for an hour or three... |
I was flying with a guy during his test phase (in my plane) and he had a problem
with the electric flaps unable to retract up after a touch n go. We landed and found the
problem. Can't remember the cause. May have been a blown fuse.
Ron Lee
[quote][b]
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FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:08 am Post subject: Electric Flaps option |
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In a message dated 8/19/06 10:10:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
flyrv6(at)bryantechnology.com writes:
| Quote: | I got to ask of any. What are the best speeds for landing?
start the approach, slow to ?
maintain this till final
Then on final slow to ? over the fence?
Assuming tail wheel and constant speed rv-6
Tim
=========================================
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Tim:
Landing can NOT be taught on line.
But, for the RV-6 w/C/S Prop that I fly I use 80 Kts (90 MPH) on final. As
for slowing down ... We are talking RV-6 here not gliders, so when the power is
cut she will drop like a rock ... Maybe not Magnetite, more like Glenna.
Slowing down is easy too, just set up for a three point landing. NOT YOU NOSE
DRAGGER TYPES!
Just a PS here ... I have been asked by ATC to keep up the speed while on a
practice ILS because there was a jet on approach; did that at 105 Kts. Still
had no problem slowing down, C/S Prop helped but so does pitch. Who said
BREAKS? I don't need no stinking breaks!
For all the nay-sayers about too much speed - I would recommend, just for
S&G's do some ILS work at both 1.3 x Stall (too slow) and 80 Kts (90 MPH) and
then one about 90 Kts (100 MPH) and then you tell me which gave you the best all
around approach.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
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