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Considering the purchase of a 2nd hand kit
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject: Considering the purchase of a 2nd hand kit Reply with quote

Brian/Pete, I suspect the explanation is that if you brake whilst turning there is a very strong tendency to ground loop since the C of G is behind the main wheel, which acts like a pivot. A tail wind would aggravate the tendency to ground loop. Once into a ground loop the plane 'trips over',the wheel and touches the outer wing tip on the ground (compressing that outrigger in the process) and also touches the propeller on the ground. The moral is to NEVER EVER brake in a mono unless you are going in a straight line - better to run off the runway in general if you are in that situation where wind or over controlling or whatever has left you turning towards the edge of the runway.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ


On 2017-04-02 19:03, Brian Davies wrote:
Quote:

Yes, the natural tendency started the event but I was late correcting and then over controlled and ended up pointing in the other direction. Not sure why the tail lifted but probably the combination of a tail wind and brakes.

Brian

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of PeteSent: 02 April 2017 14:16To: europa-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Re: Considering the purchase of a 2nd hand kit



Interesting example....thx for sharing. Did the tail rise because of downwind full aft stick? Im confused why you were pointing downwind and not weather-cocked into the wind ( which i would have thought would have ben the planes natural tendency)?



Cheers and thx,

Pete

On Apr 2, 2017, at 4:56 AM, Brian Davies <brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk (brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk)> wrote:
Quote:

The Mono vs Trigear debate could go on for ever and there is no clear winner. Here is my take on it for what it is worth.

I built my Europa as a Mono. Prior to flying it I had about 15 hours tailwheel experience in a J3 Cub. I would describe myself as only an average pilot who has work to stay sharp and current. I received expert conversion training and then flew some 20 hours of the most challenging and enjoyable kind. I then got too confident and tried to land on tarmac with a 90 degree 5-10 knot crosswind.  It got away from me but the runway was 45 metres wide so no real drama. Just as the aircraft was coming to a stop at 90 degrees to the runway heading and with the wind now up my tail I touched the brakes and it tipped on its nose . The cost was three new Airmaster blades and an overhauled hub. It was my fault, not the aircraft. The lesson I learned was- you can never relax with a Mono- you must always keep on top of it. Once you get below a certain speed if you are still out of shape you become a passenger because you have no differential braking to save the day.

I considered my situation and decided the Mono was great fun but I wanted to do some European touring and felt I would enjoy it more with a Trigear so I converted. With the speed kit fitted it is probably 5 knots slower but I don't notice that. Once in the air I cannot tell the difference between the two configurations. I have never regretted my decision to convert but if asked I would always advise someone building a Mono to go for it and enjoy the challenge. Yes, conversion is much harder than going Tri during the build but handling a Mono is one of those flying experiences that should not be missed.

Brian Davies G-DDBD

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of PeteSent: 01 April 2017 23:08To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Re: Re: Considering the purchase of a 2nd hand kit



Fwiw, I had the generous opportunity to fly with Tim in his fine Mono a few years back, and didn't notice any strange handling issues - in fact he showed me two landings to prove it Smile I did't get the impression it was any busier than a normal taildragger either. Thanks again Tim! I had the same observations on my other three mono demo flights. For sure it would have different techniques with the outriggers than a 'normal' taildragger, but nothing that couldn't be easily learned. Up here in canada, the young air cadets train on gliders without disaster. I for sure will build mine as a mono, as the mono's attributes are what attracted me to the plane in the first place, and the entire structure is based on the compact and efficient design. For sure it is less busy on the ground than my short coupled and inadequate tailed hummelbird Smile



That said, the tri "gold rush" that is for sale would be the most economical way to get into a europa (the current north american resale values for europas has plummeted, simply due to their sparse numbers, and fickle NA flyers preference to match hole sonex's and RV's).



So far i have not yet flown another type that is so beautifully harmonized, stable and yet responsive. DD did his homework well! I still love this design this 19 years after i first did my research.



Cheers and blue skies,

Pete

C-IPWZ (not a europa Wink

On Apr 1, 2017, at 1:54 PM, Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info (pete(at)lawless.info)> wrote:
Quote:

Hi Ira
I agree totally with Tim. In fact in the last 15 years since my mono has been flying I have never noticed any tendency to tip the nose down on braking regardless of the G of G.
You just need soft hands on the ailerons to keep the wings level. If you over control and push the outrigger into the surface then it affects the C of G, unloads the tail wheel and a ground loop is waiting to happen.
Having owned a share in a Cub I think the mono is neither harder nor easier just different.
Pete
G-RMAC #109

On 01/04/17 18:15, houlihan tim wrote:
Quote:

Hi Ira
"Prop strikes on Mono's are common". What makes you say that ?
In the UK there is no noticeable difference between aircraft insurance premiums for tri gear and mono, which tells you something .
Sure if you brake hard while turning you can upset things but the accident rate is very similar for both types.
I have had my 912 mono classic flying for 15 years now and yes I broke a prop ( only once) but as I attempted to land rounding out about ten feet too high I blame the pilot (me) not the configuration , indeed in a similar situation a tri gear would not only have damaged the prop but also the nosewheel.
Better pilots than me have described the mono as no more difficult to operate than a piper cub, Having only been a passenger in a cub I cannot give an opinion on that.
The mono is a tail wheel aeroplane and behaves like one,
regards
Tim
G-BZTH

Quote:

On 01 April 2017 at 17:30 rampil <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com> (ira.rampil(at)gmail.com) wrote:--> Europa-List message posted by: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com> (ira.rampil(at)gmail.com)To further your consideration, the mono wheel also has a spinny thing on the front end which is absent from most gliders. Prop strikes are alsocommon with monowheels. Depending on you CG loading, a tap on the brake might just rock you forward! Fortunately (if one can say that in this context), the combination of carbon fiber prop and Rotax gear box usually prevents expensive engine damage.--------Ira N224XSRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467914#467914

Quote:



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