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jpl(at)showpage.org
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 Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:31 am Post subject: Eaa banter |
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Bruce,
I think you'll find that the RV building crowd is all over the map on
personality types. I'm building a slow-build -6A and wouldn't
consider a quick build. I *would* consider a match-drilled kit like
the newer production designs simply to help keep things straighter.
I'm not an A&P -- I'm a computer geek -- and these types of help
would be nice for guys like me.
If you want to do plans built, you might like the Cozy Mark IV. It
looks like a nice airplane.
-J
On Aug 2, 2007, at 7:15 AM, cbaron66 wrote:
| Quote: |
I'm sorry if I came off a little harsh before- it's just that I get
frustraited when everyone seems to think everything is rosey with
GA and the EAA in particular. I also live in Minneapolis and I'm
saddend by the bridge collapse-it kind of puts things in
perspective. To show my displeasure with the way the EAA has spent
my money in the past, I have decided to not renew my membership and
I'll most likely never return to Osh again. Maybe my little
"protest" will have an effect but most likely not. Right now I'm at
the point of deciding what it is that I'm going to build. As you
might assume from my user name, I used to own a '66 Baron and
before that a '58 Travel air. I decided quite some time ago that,
even though I'm an A&P, I'll never own another certified aircraft.
For quite some time I was set on building an RV6 but(here's the
part you won't like) over the last 7 to 9 years, from the
"outside", the RV planes and crowds have become much like the
classic corvette crowd. No!
w if I have to explain that, well, you'll just get madder at me...
I have the skills and facilities to build from plans so that's
where I'm going- to myself, that's much closer to EXPERIMENTAL
aviation than ordering up a quick build "kit" that was put togther
for you by some poor SOB in a third world country so you can get
around the legal maint. constraints of flying spam cans. As far as
getting what I wish for, I plan on flying my plans built plane from
my own grass strip, day VFR only and never coming near any
controlled airspace so, user fees(as I understand them), etc, will
mean nothing to me. I'm not trying to offend anyone by offering my
veiws, it's just to me, the EAA and for a large part, those that
embrace what it has become, are not what I think EXPERIMENTAL
aviation should be. But again this is just my opinion and it should
not offend anyone if they don't agree.
jmsears(at)adelphia.net wrote:
> I really hate to step into this crap again; but, some comments
> made were a little out of line.
>> What exactly do you want to "give it a rest" to? The fact
>> that a measurable amount of the membership of an
>> organization that is "non-profit" are not overly pleased
>> with the way their dues are used?
>>
>>
>
> The problem is, we can cuss and discuss this issue to death;
> but, we're preaching to the choir. Our comments, negative
> and positive, should be sent to the EAA instead of taking
> up so much space here. How many have used "do not
> archive" to keep this discussion out of the archives? If
> one is not happy with an organization, one should let them
> know. Another alternative is to drop one's membership.
> I've done both with the EAA, when needed.
>> Or are you talking about the fact that Osh has become
>> mostly a place for wealthy people to buy/pose with/play
>> with very expensive crap most of us will never even
>> dream about owning?
>>
>>
>
> Yes, there is some of that; and, that was one reason I
> dropped out of the EAA for a couple of years, some
> years back. However, I have friends who look forward
> to going to OSH every year, even though they bitch to
> no end about the cost. I opt to not go. I have yet to
> attend OSH because it does nothing for me. I did
> attend Sun-n-Fun a few times; but, I've never had the
> desire to do OSH. If one doesn't like what goes on
> there, do as I do. It works for me. Oh, yeah. My
> friends, for the most part, are far from wealthy. Two
> I know spend their vacations volunteering so you can
> have fun there. They can barely afford to attend it,
> themselves.
>> Even though I only started attending in the early
>> ninties, I feel there isn't as much there for the little
>> guy as there used to be(relative to the amount of high
>> dollar sh_t that has no relevance to homebuilt aircraft).
>>
>>
>
> That is probably true. However, it is one of the places
> one can go to see the latest in stuff that we can use in
> our RVs, or any other thing we're building. I used my
> first couple of trips to Sun-n-Fun to pick out a kit to
> build. Later on, I used a trip to pick out my avionics.
> I've made one trip there, since. I may not go to any
> more of their events; but, they worked for me, when
> I did attend. Local fly-ins are more to my liking.
>> Nowdays, my favorite place is the few odd vendors
>> left in the flymarket that sell old used airplane parts.
>>
>>
>
> That's a neat place, if one is looking for rare parts. You
> won't find those vendors at most fly-ins.
>> I guess we'll just give it all a rest and sweep it under
>> the rug once again.
>>
>>
>
> You don't have to, if you complain to the source of the
> problem. We tend to bitch amongst ourselves and do
> nothing to really confront the problem. If you don't
> talk with the EAA about what they're doing, they'll
> continue to think they're still doing OK. When a bunch
> of us started raising heck about the warbirds, etc., in
> the magazine, that changed. After a couple of years of
> being a non-member, I felt the magazine was good
> enough for me to renew, again. The magazine is my
> main benefit from the organization. When it no longer
> appeals to me, I'll complain to the EAA.
>> However I will win out, as I only in my forties and all the
>> sad faced old men with more money than skills will quit
>> flying and die.
>>
>>
>
> Remember, we old men make up a goodly portion of GA.
> However, not all of us old men are rich. In fact, most of
> the guys I know are considering getting out of aviation, not
> because of our health. We can no longer justify the cost. If
> you can, then you must be one of the richer guys you're
> talking about. The young folks I know can't afford a LSA
> ticket, much less a private ticket. Owning an airplane is
> something they can only dream about. The expenses of
> raising a family take all they have. If you can still afford it,
> you must be richer than you think. 
>
> As for the skills, who do you learn your skills from? Mine
> have come from various sources, to include those older than
> I am. Will you be enough to back fill what will be lost when
> us older guys die off? Remember, it's not just the rich old
> guys who die. We older builders with skills die, as well.
>> That will cause EAA to hopfully shrink back to what
>> is was and should be again- a (small) group of fanatic
>> enthusists that build airplanes with their hands from
>> napkin drawings and don't need huge multi-corparate
>> sponsorship to get together and have a little fun once
>> a year.
>>
>>
>
> Unfortunately, you're right about the shrinkage because
> there won't be enough young people with the incomes
> and the desire to maintain GA as we know it, today. It
> will be the rich who will be able to continue aviation,
> just as it is in Europe, today. You can forget your get
> togethers because those will be a thing of the past. If
> you want to see what it will be like, look at the large
> fly-ins of Europe. A big one there is no larger than one
> of our local events. Do you think you'd ever see an
> impromptu RV fly-in draw over 100 airplanes because
> the pilots just needed something to do? I think not.
>
> That shrinkage you speak of will also mean a shrinkage
> of kits provided to those who want to build; so, we may
> have to revert back to scratch building to get anything built,
> provided parts suppliers are not all driven out of business
> by the lack of business. Just think of all of the jobs that
> will be lost, if us older guys die off. We'll see GA for
> the middle class die. Since I'm one of the older guys, I
> may not live to see that happen, thankfully.
>
> My suggestion is that you should watch what you wish for.
> You may get it and may not like what you get.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
> RV-7A #70317 (Building when I get the urge)
> do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127124#127124
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Bob Collins
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: Eaa banter |
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/ / If y'all spent as much time building as you do arguing about non RV stuff you would be flying now.
new suggested thread, then. How do I get the $30,000 (I'm pay-as-you-go) to finish the plane? If only it were all about time. (g)
do not archive
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/ |
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n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: Eaa banter |
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Hey Bob,
The Check is in the Mail…. somewhere
Do Not Archive!
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:01 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Eaa banter
/ / If y'all spent as much time building as you do arguing about non RV stuff you would be flying now.
new suggested thread,then. How do I get the $30,000 (I'm pay-as-you-go) to finish the plane?Ifonly it were all about time. (g)
do notarchive | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
01234
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Bob Collins
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: Eaa banter |
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I'm thinking of starting a new letter writing campaign on the Intenet.
Greetings:
I am Zambuto Muhawe... an RV-8 builder in Nigeria, and a former wealthy dictator who needs your help to recover my millions. IN
exchange, I offer to shre with you and buck you rivet.
....
Do not archive
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:42 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Eaa banter
Hey Bob,
The Check is in the Mail…. somewhere
Do Not Archive!
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:01 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Eaa banter
/ / If y'all spent as much time building as you do arguing about non RV stuff you would be flying now.
new suggested thread,then. How do I get the $30,000 (I'm pay-as-you-go) to finish the plane?Ifonly it were all about time. (g)
do notarchive | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
01234
5 [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/ |
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acepilot(at)bloomer.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: Eaa banter |
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We had a "formation" flight of Aeroncas back in 1998 where we flew
enmasse from Marion, IN to Middletown, OH...97 or so planes as I
recall....I was about #80 in the big "V" toward the back since I thought
I was a little slower than most of the other Champs and Chiefs... do not
archive
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)
Michael W Stewart wrote:
| Quote: | Id say the most interesting RV thing at OSH was the largest formation
they have ever seen, and we think ever done anyhere. The 35 ship
formation was way cool.
Being in it might make me biased. But it was RV cool none the less.
OK Ill admit too, that RV on floats was wayy cool too.
Mike
do not archive
<snip>
What is the most interesting RV-related thing you saw at Oshkosh this
year, folks? I didn't get a chance to see the RV on floats but I'd
seen the pictures of it. Smitty has some pictures of it in the water
on Doug's site.
What else?
Forums? Anybody learn anything at a forum?
<snip>
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lamar(at)takeflighttexas.
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: Eaa banter |
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I hear ya bob. I have had to beg, borrow, and steal to get funding and im still short. I made a budget for this project 3 yrs ago. I made some guesses about costs, I was way off!! Oh and Vans calculator really needs to be updated. I know certain things now that would save me time and money so maybe the next time around i can save a few bucks.
Lamar
RV7A
[quote] ---
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