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CGS Prop blades Loose
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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose

The prop in question was a NSI hub that failed. Gary is a good friend and close neighbour.  Lance Wheeler from NSI did nothing to help Gary if I recall correctly. Lance Wheeler had a reputation of not being the most honest person to deal with. 



I had another prop near me depart a blade and yes it was a GSC wood prop. I have also see other brands including IVO shed blades. I had a blade departure my self once and you what results is  a sonic like boom as your windshield blows out and the engine gets torn from the mounts. I deadsticked with no damage into a field. Put on trailer and took back to shop. This company unlike NSI replaced all damaged equipment including a NEW engine and PROP.  There are very credible and we continue to sell their props. 



I have at least 6 different props in stock now for demos for 582 tractors  If anyone wants to fly in and try one or spend a day trying different props that can be arranged. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  Noel 



The blade that departed was on a float plane and was a composite blade not a 

GSC and it happened to the fellow out of Montreal if I remember correctly. 

It had something to do with the hub. His picture showed the departed blade 

impaled into the front of the float. I think the fellows name is Gary and 

his arcft was C-GOOT. 



I think the above info is correct --- perhaps Gary could elaborate on this 

as I am sure he is aware of the incident if it wasn't him. 



DO NOT ARCHIVE 



Ted Palamarek

_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
Highest rated on youtube

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose

If you claim that an IVO prop had a failure, please supply list with that information.  I think you are wrong about that and give people bad impressions.  Clint

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose

 From: dave(at)cfisher.com

 Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 10:51:09 -0700

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com>

 The prop in question was a NSI hub that failed. Gary is a good friend and close neighbour. Lance Wheeler from NSI did nothing to help Gary if I recall correctly. Lance Wheeler had a reputation of not being the most honest person to deal with. 

 I had another prop near me depart a blade and yes it was a GSC wood prop. I have also see other brands including IVO shed blades. I had a blade departure my self once and you what results is a sonic like boom as your windshield blows out and the engine gets torn from the mounts. I deadsticked with no damage into a field. Put on trailer and took back to shop. This company unlike NSI replaced all damaged equipment including a NEW engine and PROP. There are very credible and we continue to sell their props. 

 I have at least 6 different props in stock now for demos for 582 tractors If anyone wants to fly in and try one or spend a day trying different props that can be arranged. 

 > Noel 

 > 

 > The blade that departed was on a float plane and was a composite blade not a 

 > GSC and it happened to the fellow out of Montreal if I remember correctly. 

 > It had something to do with the hub. His picture showed the departed blade 

 > impaled into the front of the float. I think the fellows name is Gary and 

 > his arcft was C-GOOT. 

 > 

 > I think the above info is correct --- perhaps Gary could elaborate on this 

 > as I am sure he is aware of the incident if it wasn't him. 

 > 

 > DO NOT ARCHIVE 

 > 

 > Ted Palamarek 

 --------

 Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada

 Flying Videos and Kitfox Info

 http://www.cfisher.com/

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175092#175092

&====================

[quote] 

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose

Google comes up with a whole bunch of IVO prop failures.  

John Hart  

Kitfox IV  

Wilburton, OK  

       

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clint Bazzill

 Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 6:28 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose  

  

  

   

If you claim that an IVO prop had a failure, please supply list with that information.  I think you are wrong about that and give people bad impressions.  Clint

 

 > Subject: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose

 > From: dave(at)cfisher.com

 > Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 10:51:09 -0700

 > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > 

 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com>

 > 

 > The prop in question was a NSI hub that failed. Gary is a good friend and close neighbour. Lance Wheeler from NSI did nothing to help Gary if I recall correctly. Lance Wheeler had a reputation of not being the most honest person to deal with. 

 > 

 > I had another prop near me depart a blade and yes it was a GSC wood prop. I have also see other brands including IVO shed blades. I had a blade departure my self once and you what results is a sonic like boom as your windshield blows out and the engine gets torn from the mounts. I deadsticked with no damage into a field. Put on trailer and took back to shop. This company unlike NSI replaced all damaged equipment including a NEW engine and PROP. There are very credible and we continue to sell their props. 

 > 

 > I have at least 6 different props in stock now for demos for 582 tractors If anyone wants to fly in and try one or spend a day trying different props that can be arranged. 

 > 

 > 

 

   [quote] [b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose

Clint ,  like others said lots on google as well. 



Here is one of my own pics



Sounds like you never heard of a IVO failure >?  Like i said all props die from time to time

broken ivo.jpg

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose

New... Over five years old???  GSC has a TBO on the blades something like

five years or 500 Hr....Whichever first.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose

The very first Ivo I saw had issues...  Since that time I have used an Ivo

myself with excellent results.  The issue with the first prop I think was

caused by not using an accurately calibrated torque wrench.  



All composites, whether in a prop or the cowl of a jetliner require special

handling and react a lot differently than wood or metal.  So much for the

obvious!



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

propellerdesign(at)tele2.
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose

http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/AlertIVOProp.htm

 http://www.ultralightnews.com/reviews/ivoprop.htm

 [quote]   ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose

GSC blade departure. 



This one happened a few miles from me 2 years ago.  I ended up straightening and welding up the engine mount, fixing the cowl damage replacing the engine and gear box with a brand new unit. And of course a new prop.   The owner went to a GSC again after having used GSC for over 20 year he was more than sold on them. 



When this on departed he was not airboune but taxing back to shop and that blade departed just a few feet from hangar door.  Owner was 84 years old at the time and still flies daily once snow melts. His snow drift almost gone this week and expect him out   this week one day. 



THis prop to my knowledge always had a good gap on aluminum blocks and was never over tightened, but it was over 5 years old.

july2006 GSC depart.jpg

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mikeperkins

Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 123

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose

There’s something that CAN be done if the blades of a GSC prop are loose because the hubs are touching.   

   

I’ve owned my Model 1 with the GSC prop for 14 years and I never overtorqued the bolts, ever. (I’m the only one who’s ever worked on my Kitfox). I’ve always used the recommended 10 ft-lbs and always carefully “snuck up” on the final torque during the torquing process. Yet after about five years, the hubs nearly touched. I had a machinist plane off 0.010” from both inside hub faces on a milling machine. Since then, about 11 years now, they are nearly touching again, but re-torquing does not bring them any closer.  

   

To insure the blades are secure, my annual inspection not only includes re-torquing the bolts but also involves putting a “wrench” on each blade to insure it doesn’t turn. I’ve found that as long as I have the proper torque on the bolts and the hubs aren’t touching, there’s no way to rotate a blade without breaking it.   

   

Mike Perkins  

      [quote][b]

GONER752(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose

Mike,

 Correct me if I'm wrong,but, isn't it 100 inch lbs.?

 Been awhile since I did mine, but that sounds familiar.

 Greg G.

  

 do not archive

  

  In a message dated 4/7/2008 10:15:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  Michael.Perkins(at)Rauland.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		        

There’s something that CAN be done    if the blades of a GSC prop are loose because the hubs are touching.       

    

I’ve owned my Model 1 with the GSC    prop for 14 years and I never overtorqued the bolts, ever. (I’m the only one    who’s ever worked on my Kitfox). I’ve always used the recommended 10 ft-lbs    and always carefully “snuck up” on the final torque during the torquing    process. Yet after about five years, the hubs nearly touched. I had a    machinist plane off 0.010” from both inside hub faces on a milling machine.    Since then, about 11 years now, they are nearly touching again, but    re-torquing does not bring them any closer.   

    

To insure the blades are secure,    my annual inspection not only includes re-torquing the bolts but also involves    putting a “wrench” on each blade to insure it doesn’t turn. I’ve found that as    long as I have the proper torque on the bolts and the hubs aren’t touching,    there’s no way to rotate a blade without breaking it.        

    

Mike    Perkins

 	  Quote: 	
		  



f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



 Macedon, N.Y.23NKn375KLMod 2582 Macedon, N.Y.23NKn375KLMod 2582 Macedon, N.Y.23NKn375KLMod 2582 Macedon, N.Y.23NKn375KLMod 2582 	
	




Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

  [quote][b]

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose

Never heard of one leaving a 912 Clint



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose

 From: dave(at)cfisher.com

 Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:24:12 -0700

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com>

 

 Clint , like others said lots on google as well. 

 

 Here is one of my own pics

 

 Sounds like you never herad of a IVO failure >? Like i said all props die from time to time

 

 --------

 Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada

 Flying Videos and Kitfox Info

 http://www.cfisher.com/

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175151#175151

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/broken_ivo_917.jpg

 

 

 

 

&======================
	


[quote] =================

 

 

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose

Mike, you are playing with luck right now -- well past TBO  and over torquiing.   GSC calls for 8 foot lbs  ( 100 inch /pounds. ) 

That last pic i sent had never been over tightened but it still  failed.



 	  Quote: 	
		  There’s something that CAN be done if the blades of a GSC prop are loose because the hubs are touching. 



I’ve owned my Model 1 with the GSC prop for 14 years and I never overtorqued the bolts, ever. (I’m the only one who’s ever worked on my Kitfox). I’ve always used the recommended 10 ft-lbs and always carefully “snuck up” on the final torque during the torquing process. Yet after about five years, the hubs nearly touched. I had a machinist plane off 0.010” from both inside hub faces on a milling machine. Since then, about 11 years now, they are nearly touching again, but re-torquing does not bring them any closer. 



To insure the blades are secure, my annual inspection not only includes re-torquing the bolts but also involves putting a “wrench” on each blade to insure it doesn’t turn. I’ve found that as long as I have the proper torque on the bolts and the hubs aren’t touching, there’s no way to rotate a blade without breaking it. 



Mike Perkins

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose

Clint, 

Correct me if I am wrong but there was a guy on this forum in hte last 6 months that had a GSC fail or come loose or something like totally depart his Kitfox with a 912.  Surely it will be in the archives. 



CLint , also -- did I miss your report on VGs ?   



Dave 



 	  Quote: 	
		  clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.

Guest



 Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:45 pm    Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose   



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Never heard of one leaving a 912 Clint

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose

I haven't got all the information together yet on the VG's.  I have seen IVO props with part of the prop missing from something going through it on a pusher.  I have seen props stricking ground, and being beat up pretty badly, but not a blade leaving a 912.  Clint

[quote] Subject: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose

 From: dave(at)cfisher.com

 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:13:22 -0700

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com>

 Clint, 

 Correct me if I am wrong but there was a guy on this forum in hte last 6 months that had a GSC fail or come loose or something like totally depart his Kitfox with a 912. Surely it will be in the archives. 

 CLint , also -- did I miss your report on VGs ? 

 Dave 

 > clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.

 > Guest

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose 

 > 

 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 > 

 > Never heard of one leaving a 912 Clint 

 > 

 --------

 Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada

 Flying Videos and Kitfox Info

 http://www.cfisher.com/

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175380#175380

 ======================

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose

Clint,



 read about a 912 blade departure here



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=41907



looking forward to reading about your VGs. 



Mine work ok , I have not removed yet but no big gains like others claim.

Maybe I have to play around and adjust mine more ?

kitfox_robert(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose

Hi Pete, IVO and GSC hubs are not interchangeable.

  

  Robert

 San Diego

 Former II/582 

 V/0200 N200KF

 Do not Archive



 ---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose

When you get your new prop, calibrate your tach to make sure you are putting

as much power as possible into the prop.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose

They both share the same Rotax bolt pattern so yes the whole prop will bolt on in place of the other whole prop.  Ron NB Ore

 [quote]  Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:37:42 -0700

From: kitfox_robert(at)yahoo.com

Subject: Re: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

   .ExternalClass DIV {;}     Hi Pete, IVO and GSC hubs are not interchangeable.

  Robert

 San Diego

 Former II/582 

 V/0200 N200KF

 Do not Archive

 ---

richs(at)presys.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose

Hi Ron, I'm working my way back to NB. Presently in Carson  City. See you next week. Rich

 [quote]   ---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: CGS Prop blades Loose

Hubs are completely different... Putting a square pin in a round hole would be easier!   The bolt pattern is consistent  

   

Noel.  

       

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Harris

 Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 12:08 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose  

  

  

       

Hi Pete, IVO and GSC hubs are not interchangeable.  

    

   

      

Robert  

    

San Diego  

    

Former II/582   

    

V/0200 N200KF  

    

Do not Archive  

  

    

---

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

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