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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: trim

Gary:

  

 I did most of that testing over the years.   The way my mkIII is rigged today is the result of a lot of other tests that  proved not to solve any problems.

  

 I tried to wait out old Kolb to off set the leading  edge of the vertical stab on their mkIII but they never did anything.   So.........I moved mine to discover it made little difference even after 1.75"  off set.  Put it back to the center position.

  

 I experiemented with changing engine thrust line up  and down, left and right.  Little difference.

  

 Also experienced rudder oscillation when there was  no pressure, my feet, on the pedals.  Cured that by doubling the rudder  pedal springs.  Now I can fly feet off.

  

 The rudder trim tab I fly with cured the adverse  yaw.  Works like a charm.

  

 I don't think it is the weight of the rudder trim  tab that causes the occilation, or flutter.  It is the fact that the rudder  is hinged from the leading edge and has no counter balance.  Why the  elevators don't flutter, I will never know, but that has never been a problem  with any model Kolb as far as I know.

  

 Yes, power off and no trim problem, yaw, pitch, or  roll.  Bring in the power and adjustments must be made to keep the old bird  trimmed out.  I believe it is the nature of a high thrust line pusher with  lots of power.

  

 john h

 mkIII

 [quote]    ,

  My MK-3 also has a big trim    tab.Is it possible to off-set the vertical stabilizer a little to correct some    of it?I was afraid to bend the tubing,and I couldn't think of another way to    try.A lot of the yaw goes away when I power down.There is enough weight from    the tab back there to start the rudder oscillating, with no tension on the    pedals.Took the tab off and the wiggle stopped but it flew sideways.Tried a    spring & cable  tension adjustment lever but never found the right    combination.Maybe need to aim the engine in a different direction.G Aman MK-3    C 2200 Jabiru

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: trim

At 08:44 PM 5/12/2008, John Hauck wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   

 Yes, power off and no trim problem, yaw, pitch, or roll.  Bring in the power and adjustments must be made to keep the old bird trimmed out.  I believe it is the nature of a high thrust line pusher with lots of power. 	


 Not surprising, the spiraling slipstream from a propeller whose axis is at or near the top of the rudder (or bottom in the case of my US) causes a yaw effect under power.



 -Dana

 --

  Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch.    [quote][b]

gaman(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:36 am Post subject: trim

John,

 Thanks for the info.I felt like I might be chasing my tail in this quest,(no pun intended).The P factor from this fast turning prop was also on my suspect list.I have an appointment with a witch doctor today and I'll let you know if that helps.

  G.Aman



---

vics(at)basicisp.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: trim

John,

 A little off subject but you got to love this one.  I just saw a big rig truck show on the 

 Outdoor channel. A company is selling VG's to place  vertically on the rear edge of the

 box to help stability in wind and passing. Plus it  keeps the rear doors cleaner. So they say!

  

 On an earlier post you made about pitching your  Warp I had just finished geting mine set at 5400

 static. Took me about 5 tries. I guessed it would  be just fine, especially after Ellery said I could

 gain another 1000 to1500 rpm in flight. Actual  clime at around 900fpm was 5600.

     Funny thing is I had the same  problem with one blade. Had to go around 3 times (of 5 diferent  times) to get that sucker to stay put. Now I'm indexing the prop to see if it will help  with vibration,

 some so far. May need a spacer.

   I also have one blade that is always 1/8 to  1/4 out of plane, supposedly not a problem.

  Have you had any problems with  vibration?

  

 Vic

 Maine

 Xtra 912 UL

 Not one logable Hr. or license

 9 Hrs TTAF

 Test Pilot Ellery

   [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:15 am Post subject: trim

A reputation is only good till the next time one screws up.>>



Hi Ron,

couldn`t disagree with that. Everyone slips at some time .At least with a 

one man operation he can`t blame it on someone else.



Just out of curiosity. What is an impact wrench?. Is that a power driven 

spanner or a  torque wrench.



Pat

aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:58 am Post subject: trim

Its a devise that can hold a socket or a screw driver bit. You place it on a 

seized/frozen nut, bolt or screw then hit it with a hammer .The shock of 

hitting it as well as a sprung loaded action within the shock driver will 

undo the nut,bolt or screw. A very handy devise when working with things 

screwed into alloy casings. You can also get air operated ones. Hope this is 

of some help.

Tony

MK111 c

503

NZ



---

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:35 am Post subject: trim

Pat

What we call an 'impact wrench' here in the Uncivilized Colonies --  

is a power wrench that applies repeated pulses of power to screw/ 

unscrew nuts etc. Called a  'rattle-gun'  by most mechanics. Can be  

electric or pneumatic. You'll doubtless get more & different answers  

from others! -- but this is what I've always heard.

Often used to put a tire (sorry, tyre) on, when it shouldn't. Often  

makes it near-impossible to take off in the field. Lug  nuts should  

be put on half-tight with the rattlegun, then  torqued to final  

specs. But many mechs are too lazy do it, and of course aren't about  

when you try to take the wheel off.

But it does wonders for the creation of inventive & colorful language.

Best, Russ

do not archive



On May 15, 2008, at 7:12 AM, pj.ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 A reputation is only good till the next time one screws up.>>



 Hi Ron,

 couldn`t disagree with that. Everyone slips at some time .At least  

 with a one man operation he can`t blame it on someone else.



 Just out of curiosity. What is an impact wrench?. Is that a power  

 driven spanner or a  torque wrench.



 Pat

ez(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: trim

On May 15, 2008, at 7:12 AM, pj.ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Just out of curiosity. What is an impact wrench?. Is that a power  

 driven spanner or a  torque wrench.


	




Language is a funny thing.

What is a "power driven spanner" ?



< g >

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: trim

At 07:12 AM 5/15/2008, pj.ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Just out of curiosity. What is an impact wrench?. Is that a power driven 

spanner or a  torque wrench.


	


I guess it's what you'd call a power driven spanner-- looks like a hand 

drill but usually air powered, loosens the nut with a succession of sharp 

hits sounding something like a machine gun-- what the mechanic uses to 

tighten the lug nuts on your car so tight that you can't get them off again 

without a six foot breaker bar... though there are non powered impact 

wrenches that you use a hammer to supply the impact to... and what we call 

an "air ratchet" over here, that uses air power to spin the nut on or off 

but doesn't provide the impacts.



-Dana

--

  Help Wanted: Telepath. You know where to apply.

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: trim

Pat, clarification is in order:

there actually is, at the lower end of the category, an impact tool  

that you can hit with

a hammer and spirals internally to break the cantankerous nut free. - 

never tried one.

Then the ubiquitous air wrench used by all commercial shops.  They go  

from the meek 1/2" drives

obtained by thousands for cheep from Harbor Fright to the break-em- 

off-or else 3/4" and larger versions.

Now you can buy a 12V DC impact wrench to take your "tyres" off.   

Never tried one of those either

but might be a handy trunk (boot) item.

Then there is the air powered ratchet wrench mentioned in an earlier  

post.  I have one, works well,

used it a couple times for repetitive duty such as oil pan removal.   

Works ok but not worth it for

the occasional mechanic.

-end note:  my cheep 1/2" air driver has been THE most useful tool.   

In my case, when set

at 50 psi it will yield about 50 ft/lbs torque and at 90 psi about 90  

ft/lbs torque.

Worked great for driving the gland nuts on VW rebuilds, setting the  

rear axle nut on VWs,

and removing and reinstalling the big honkin blade retention nut on  

my antique Gravely.

(made by Studebaker Corp,  WV)

BB

do not archive

On 15, May 2008, at 7:43 AM, Dana Hague wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 07:12 AM 5/15/2008, pj.ladd wrote:

> Just out of curiosity. What is an impact wrench?. Is that a power  

> driven spanner or a  torque wrench.

 I guess it's what you'd call a power driven spanner-- looks like a  

 hand drill but usually air powered, loosens the nut with a  

 succession of sharp hits sounding something like a machine gun--  

 what the mechanic uses to tighten the lug nuts on your car so tight  

 that you can't get them off again without a six foot breaker bar...  

 though there are non powered impact wrenches that you use a hammer  

 to supply the impact to... and what we call an "air ratchet" over  

 here, that uses air power to spin the nut on or off but doesn't  

 provide the impacts.

 -Dana

 --

  Help Wanted: Telepath. You know where to apply.

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: trim

my cheep 1/2" air driver has been THE most useful tool.   In my case, >>



Hi Robert,



I am constantly surprised by the level of equipment which the average 

American hobbyist seems to have. and the skills to use it.  I can think of 

nowhere outside a professional shop which would have a compressor and air 

lines driven tools. I remember many years ago visiting an American D I Y 

Store and was astounded by the selection of replacement lawnmower engines 

which were available off the shelf. I have never seen a replacement engine 

in the UK.

Unless they are really keen a battery powered hand drill and a few 

woodworking tools are about the usual.

Because I grew up in a timber and builders merchants I may have leanings 

toward wood and it could be that in the Midlands (about the centre of 

England) which used to be the manufacturing centre of the UK things are 

different.



Cheers



Pat

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:39 am Post subject: trim

Language is a funny thing.

What is a "power driven spanner" ?>>



Hi Eugene,

perhaps that is a poor description. I meant a device which grips a nut (as 

in nut and bolt) and turns it without the application of manual strength.



Reminds me of the old joke

"I call my girl friend Spanner, because when she walks by my nuts tighten 

up` Apologies to the few females on the list.



Cheers



Pat

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: trim

Often used to put a tire (sorry, tyre) on, when it shouldn't. >>



Hi Russ,



The complexities of language. We would not put a tyre (ot tire) on like 

that. We would would put the WHEEL on like that, and use `wheel nuts` and 

the instrument you describe, rattle gun, is always used in specialist Tyre 

and Exhaust outlets and on assembly lines and can be set to a pre arranged 

torque. Putting the Tyre (or Tire) on the wheel (or rim) is a different 

process.



I think that you generally use `wrench` when we would use `spanner`. A 

device to grip a nut. A `wrench` to us  is usually a longer  handled tool 

with a gripping device, usually adjustable, on one end.



Churchill said `Two great countries divided by the same language`



Cheers



Pat

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: trim

A very handy devise>>



Hi Tony,

pursuing the semantics. Is that a typo or regular spelling. We would say 

`device`, although we may `devise` a way of doing something..  Incidentally 

I notice that many on the list use `breakes` to slow their plane down while 

we would use `brakes`. Same problem?



Pat

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:48 am Post subject: trim

At 05:48 AM 5/16/2008, pj.ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I think that you generally use `wrench` when we would use `spanner`. A 

device to grip a nut. A `wrench` to us  is usually a longer  handled tool 

with a gripping device, usually adjustable, on one end.


	


OK, now I'm confused.  We have:



Wrench:  anything that is intended to turn a nut or bolt, which can include:

         -Socket wrench: combination of a rachet handle and interchangeable 

snap-on sockets, which grip the nut on all six sides (note that "Snap-On" 

is also a brand name, considered by many to be the finest available)

         -Open end wrench: fork ended thingy in various sizes, anywhere 

from several inches to several feet long

         -Box wrench: similar to the open end, but fully encircles the nut 

like a socket (often in combination with an open end wrench, one on each 

end, to make a "combination wrench"

         -Adjustable wrench: an open end wrench with a worm screw 

adjustment for different sizes (often called a "Crescent wrench" after one 

of the most popular manufacturers)

         -Monkey wrench: an adjustable wrench with the jaws at 90° to the 

handle, usually larger than a crescent wrench, usually used for plumbing

         -Pipe wrench: also for plumbing, an adjustable wrench with a 

floating head and teeth to grip a smooth sided pipe

         -Impact wrench and air ratchet: power driven devices that you use 

with sockets



So which one is a "spanner"?



 	  Quote: 	
		  Incidentally I notice that many on the list use `breakes` to slow their 

plane down while we would use `brakes`. Same problem?


	


BRAKES slow your plane down whether you're in the UK or America.  BREAKS 

are something that's broken (yes, a misspelling, not an "Americanism").



-Dana



--

  Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. 

Professionals built the Titanic.

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:54 am Post subject: trim

roughly 75% of americans can spell.  -some just don't care.



Monkey wrench also called Ford wrench because Ford at one time included one, with logo upon it,

with the car.  I have a couple and a 29 Tudor.

Spud wrench, for the toilet (loo) tank connection gland nut

Chain wrench

crow foot...

too many to list, try here for a good compilation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrench

BB, Kolb MkIII, flew first of the season on wednesday

On 16, May 2008, at 7:43 AM, Dana Hague wrote:

[quote] [quote][b]

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: trim

Pat, I stand corrected, I was wrong, and I apologise. Or is it  

apologize?

Of course I meant wheel, not tyre/tire. I do know better, just  

'misspoke'

Brakes is the only proper term. Some people misspell the word.

There are dozens of specialized wrenches, many quite clever, and NONE  

to be confused with

"serving wenches"

BTW is a power spanner powered by mains current?

Wrenches are always bigger than spanners?

do not archive

On May 16, 2008, at 5:48 AM, pj.ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Often used to put a tire (sorry, tyre) on, when it shouldn't. >>



 Hi Russ,



 The complexities of language. We would not put a tyre (ot tire) on  

 like that. We would would put the WHEEL on like that, and use  

 `wheel nuts` and the instrument you describe, rattle gun, is always  

 used in specialist Tyre and Exhaust outlets and on assembly lines  

 and can be set to a pre arranged torque. Putting the Tyre (or Tire)  

 on the wheel (or rim) is a different process.



 I think that you generally use `wrench` when we would use  

 `spanner`. A device to grip a nut. A `wrench` to us  is usually a  

 longer  handled tool with a gripping device, usually adjustable, on  

 one end.



 Churchill said `Two great countries divided by the same language`



 Cheers



 Pat

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: trim

At 07:43 AM 5/16/2008, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>



 At 05:48 AM 5/16/2008, pj.ladd wrote:



 OK, now I'm confused.  We have:



 Wrench:  anything that is intended to turn a nut or bolt, which can include: 	


         AIR COMPRESSOR: A machine that takes energy produced in a

         coal-burning power plant 200 miles away and transforms it into

         wrench that grips cylinder head bolts last tightened 2 years ago by someone

         using RED loctight, and rounds them off.



   HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer

  nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate thin walled aluminum

  tubing not far from the bolt you are trying to "tap" in..



  MECHANIC'S KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of

  cardboard cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly

  well on boxes containing seats and fabric containers.



  ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning steel Pop rivets in

  their holes until you die of old age, but it also works great for

  drilling mounting holes in fabric just to the left of the rib you are

  trying to hit.



  PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads.



  HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board

  principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable

  motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more

  dismal your future becomes.



  VICE-GRIPS: Also used to round off bolt heads. When nothing else is

  available,  they can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to

  the palm of your hand.



  OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various

  flammable objects in your garage on fire.   Also handy for igniting

  the fumes inside the wing that your just painted yesterday.



  WHITWORTH SOCKETS: Once used for working on older British cars and

  motorcycles, they are now used mainly for impersonating that 9/16 or

  1" socket you've been searching for the last 15 minutes.



  DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching

  flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest

  and flings your beer across the room, splattering it against that

  freshly painted part you were drying.



  WIRE WHEEL: Cleans rust off small parts and then throws them

  somewhere under the workbench with the speed of light.  Also

  removes fingerprint whorls and hard-earned guitar callouses in

  about the time it takes you to say, "Ouc...."



  E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR: A tool that snaps off in bolt

  holes and is ten times harder than any known drill bit.



  CRAFTSMAN 1 x 16-INCH SCREWDRIVER: A large motor mount prying tool

  that inexplicably has an accurately machined screwdriver tip on the

  end without the handle.



  AVIATION METAL SNIPS: See hacksaw.



  PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the lids of $100 per gallon

  aircraft paint and splash it on your shirt; can also be

  used, as the name implies, to round off Phillips screw heads.



  PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal 12 ft leading edge surrounding

  that clip or bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.



  HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to cut fuel lines 1 inch too short. 



  ICE SCRAPER: To scrape frost off plexiglass so you can use the big

  scratches as a marker to set pitch.



 



      [quote][b]

_________________
Possum

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: trim

PossumsThanx for clarifying many oft-used, and mis-used; terms

 But also -- Phillps screwdriver is what a blonde of my acquaintance thinks is: 

Milk of Magnesia with Vodka.

Certainly!  do not archive

    

On May 16, 2008, at 7:06 PM, possums wrote:

[quote] At 07:43 AM 5/16/2008, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution  [/b] 	
[b]

aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:55 am Post subject: trim

In  this part of the world the v is correct. I have confirmed that with she 

that knows best.Isnt it great that we all speek the same language.. 

Sometimes with other words z and s seem to get a bit confused as well.



  Tony

MK111C

503

Downunder

---

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