 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearw
Guest
|
 Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: Ethanol? |
 |
|
Tom,
No doubt the fuel that you have been burning did not have ethanol in it
however I am told that all Washington fueling stations must have ethanol
blend in their tanks by July 1. We have no gas stations in our area now that
do not have ethanol in ALL of their fuels. Now what? Some minor exceptions
are the smaller stations that have not accepted deliveries in the last few
weeks but that will change with their next shipments.
I seem to recall that when the State of Washington was haggling over this
piece of legislation that some fuel was to be made available without ethanol
but all of the distributors that I have talked with seem to be oblivious to
anything about this. I think that it is because they do not want the hassle
of carrying another grade of fuel and most are not set up with enough tanks
and pumps to handle it.
Frank Miles
Clarkston, Wash.
K-III w/582
-----Originl Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 3:05 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Ethanol?
| Quote: | About 5 days ago my tanks were low so I put 10 gals of 92oct
premium auto fuel from the local station.
|
Kevin, if you still have that 92 oct fuel on hand could you test it for
alcohol and let us know for sure if it does contain it?
I have been using 92 oct auto fuel for the past year and have had no
problems. My wing tank is from 1994 and has the white kreme sloshing
inside. I do test my fuel and have not found any alcohol. last fill up was
two days ago. I use Chevron and 76. I am in Ellensburg WA.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185932#185932
Checked by AVG.
7:12 AM
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
kcozik(at)cablespeed.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: Ethanol? |
|
|
Clint
It was the tank only. I flew the day the fuel was added and then the plane sat for
a few days. The filters looked clear, the only bad stuff was coming out of the
tank drain.
Tom
I did not have to test it, the station owner confirmed it had "at least" 6% and as
much as 10%. My plastic sump tool seemed soft from the fuel. By the reaction of
the station owner and the damage to the tank I'm wondering if something is going on
here and that maybe this wasn't normal premium auto fuel but a mixture stronger
than 10%. Is there a simple way to test the level?
Kevin C
Series 6-7
Rotax 914 Turbo
Czech floats
Laingsburg MI
On Mon Jun 2 14:35 , Clint Bazzill <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com> sent:
| Quote: |
That is very interesting. I use auto fuel all the time in my 912ULS. I only use
Hi Test Chevron. Am careful at not using anything else except 100 LL.. Do you
|
know if it was the tank or reaction to fuel line or ?? clint
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Michel
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: Ethanol? |
|
|
| Quote: | From: K&MCozik [kcozik(at)cablespeed.com]
By the reaction of
the station owner and the damage to the tank I'm wondering if something is going
on
|
.. what I am wondering is what they have in their tanks at the station. Because, as I understand it, it is also fiberglass tanks. Norway will introduce 5% ethanol in Mogas later this year. I asked Shell what they intended to do to protect their own underground tank and ... no one could answer.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
<pre><b><font size color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tom Jones
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:29 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol? |
|
|
| Quote: | We have no gas stations in our area now that
do not have ethanol in ALL of their fuels. Now what? |
Frank,
My plan is to keep testing the fuel before I put it in the airplane. When the alcohol shows up I will not put it in the wing tank on my kitfox. I will put it in the panel tank which is alcohol proof as is the rest of my fuel system. About 9 gallons so my range will be limited.
I have another wing tank that came with my kit that I did not install. I will put the alcohol fuel in that tank and let it sit for a couple weeks and see what happens. If it dissolves the tank I will start putting 100LL in the wing tank for longer trips.
I guess I better put new fuel placards on the tanks then too. Wow, this is putting some more chances for failure in the system isn't it?
| Quote: | | By the reaction of the station owner and the damage to the tank I'm wondering if something is going on here and that maybe this wasn't normal premium auto fuel but a mixture stronger than 10%. Is there a simple way to test the level? |
Kevin,
I use the water line test to check for alcohol but don't know of a way to check for the amount (percentage of alcohol).
By the way, I have heard that some people have found that the water level goes down instead of up when they have tested fuel that has alcohol in it due to the alcohol holding some of the water in suspension instead of dropping out with the water. This new fuel is moonshine.
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dave
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol? |
|
|
If you missed my last post I use well over 1000 gallons a year in my 582 Kitfox alone in the wingtanks. We have had ethanol in our gas for 2 years. My tanks have not fallen apart yet.
If and when they do I will order new ones here www.wingtanks.com
Kevin had an incident and I am sure there is an answer for it as it does seem quite isolated. I see it as still in the fear mongering stage. I have dozens of planes in my strip weekly and they all use auto gas and none have fallen outta the sky yet nor have the tanks melted.
GO FIGURE !!!!!!!
Dave
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
Highest rated on youtube |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kcozik(at)cablespeed.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: Ethanol? |
|
|
I removed the tank drain today so I could take a closer look and to clean. They
were covered with sticky resin and were almost impossible to push. When I did get
them to open, they wouldn't close. Both rubber "o" rings were melted as well.
Like others have said before, this seems to be a very isolated case where it
doesn't seem to add up. Thanks to Tom I have a procedure for checking the level of
additives which I'll do sometime this week. Hopefully we'll have some answers.
Just for the record, My hangar mate has a model 4 1200 shipped around 1993. I
helped him pour a can of auto fuel in it 2 weeks ago and it has sat in the hanger
since. When I checked the tank this morning, no sign of damage at all.
Kevin C
Series 6-7
Rotax 914
Czech floats
Laingsburg MI
On Tue Jun 3 21:43 , 'dave' <dave(at)cfisher.com> sent:
| Quote: |
If you missed my last post I use well over 1000 gallons a year in my 582 Kitfox
alone in the wingtanks. We have had ethanol in our gas for 2 years. My tanks
|
have not fallen apart yet.
| Quote: | If and when they do I will order new ones here www.wingtanks.com
Kevin had an incident and I am sure there is an answer for it as it does seem
quite isolated. I see it as still in the fear mongering stage. I have dozens of
|
planes in my strip weekly and they all use auto gas and none have fallen outta the
sky yet nor have the tanks melted.
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: Ethanol? |
|
|
Do you have E-85 fuel (85% alcohol) in your area? If so, is it possible that that is what you have in your tank? Just a thought. Jim Chuk Avids, Kitfox 4 Mn
[quote] From: kcozik(at)cablespeed.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol?
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:38:22 -0400
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: K&MCozik <kcozik(at)cablespeed.com>
I removed the tank drain today so I could take a closer look and to clean. They
were covered with sticky resin and were almost impossible to push. When I did get
them to open, they wouldn't close. Both rubber "o" rings were melted as well.
Like others have said before, this seems to be a very isolated case where it
doesn't seem to add up. Thanks to Tom I have a procedure for checking the level of
additives which I'll do sometime this week. Hopefully we'll have some answers.
Just for the record, My hangar mate has a model 4 1200 shipped around 1993. I
helped him pour a can of auto fuel in it 2 weeks ago and it has sat in the hanger
since. When I checked the tank this morning, no sign of damage at all.
Kevin C
Series 6-7
Rotax 914
Czech floats
Laingsburg MI
On Tue Jun 3 21:43 , 'dave' <dave(at)cfisher.com> sent:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" dave(at)cfisher.com>
>
>If you missed my last post I use well over 1000 gallons a year in my 582 Kitfox
alone in the wingtanks. We have had ethanol in our gas for 2 years. My tanks
have not fallen apart yet.
>If and when they do I will order new ones here www.wingtanks.com
>
>Kevin had an incident and I am sure there is an answer for it as it does seem
quite isolated. I see it as still in the fear mongering stage. I have dozens of
planes in my strip weekly and they all use auto gas and none have fallen outta the
sky yet nor have the tanks melted.
>
> GO FIGURE !!!!!!!
>
>
>Dave
>
>--------
>Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
>Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
>http://www.cfisher.com/
>
>
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php\?p=186127#186127
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
&g==================
Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Add them now!
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Michel
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject: Ethanol? |
|
|
| Quote: | From: K&MCozik [kcozik(at)cablespeed.com]
Both rubber "o" rings were melted as well.
|
Kevin, for information, I had to change both o-rings on my drains on my model 3 from 1993 and I have never used fuel with ethanol. At the time of the leakage, the tanks had only been used for two-stroke oil-gas mixture.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
<pre><b><font size color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kcozik(at)cablespeed.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:52 am Post subject: Ethanol? |
|
|
Yeah, we do have E85 around here and that is what I was thinking.
Kevin C
Series 6-7
Rotax 914
Czech floats
Laingsburg MI
On Tue Jun 3 23:34 , Jim_and_Lucy Chuk <thesupe(at)hotmail.com> sent:
| Quote: |
Do you have E-85 fuel (85% alcohol) in your area? If so, is it possible that that
is what you have in your tank? Just a thought. Jim Chuk Avids, Kitfox 4 Mn
|
| Quote: |
> From: kcozik(at)cablespeed.com
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Re: Ethanol?
> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:38:22 -0400
>
>
>
>
> I removed the tank drain today so I could take a closer look and to clean. They
> were covered with sticky resin and were almost impossible to push. When I did get
> them to open, they wouldn't close. Both rubber "o" rings were melted as well.
>
> Like others have said before, this seems to be a very isolated case where it
> doesn't seem to add up. Thanks to Tom I have a procedure for checking the level
of
|
| Quote: | > additives which I'll do sometime this week. Hopefully we'll have some answers.
>
> Just for the record, My hangar mate has a model 4 1200 shipped around 1993. I
> helped him pour a can of auto fuel in it 2 weeks ago and it has sat in the hanger
> since. When I checked the tank this morning, no sign of damage at all.
>
> Kevin C
> Series 6-7
> Rotax 914
> Czech floats
> Laingsburg MI
>
> On Tue Jun 3 21:43 , 'dave' <dave(at)cfisher.com> sent:
>
> >
> >
> >If you missed my last post I use well over 1000 gallons a year in my 582 Kitfox
> alone in the wingtanks. We have had ethanol in our gas for 2 years. My tanks
> have not fallen apart yet.
> >If and when they do I will order new ones here www.wingtanks.com
> >
> >Kevin had an incident and I am sure there is an answer for it as it does seem
> quite isolated. I see it as still in the fear mongering stage. I have dozens of
> planes in my strip weekly and they all use auto gas and none have fallen outta
the
|
| Quote: | > sky yet nor have the tanks melted.
> >
> > GO FIGURE !!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >--------
> >Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> >Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
> >http://www.cfisher.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php\?p=186127#186127
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Windows
Live™ Messenger. Add them now!
|
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:02 am Post subject: Ethanol? |
|
|
If you replace "o" rings made from buna or nitrile compounds with "o" rings
made from Viton, they will not deteriorate as quickly in auto fuel.
John Hart
KF IV
Wilburton, OK
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:14 am Post subject: Ethanol? |
|
|
If you get a sample of the fuel and do the 9-1 mixture with fuel/water, it should show up real easy as being mostly alcohol. Jim Chuk Avids, Kitfox 4 Mn
[quote] From: kcozik(at)cablespeed.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Ethanol?
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:49:18 -0400
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: K&MCozik <kcozik(at)cablespeed.com>
Yeah, we do have E85 around here and that is what I was thinking.
Kevin C
Series 6-7
Rotax 914
Czech floats
Laingsburg MI
On Tue Jun 3 23:34 , Jim_and_Lucy Chuk <thesupe(at)hotmail.com> sent:
>
>
>
>
>
>Do you have E-85 fuel (85% alcohol) in your area? If so, is it possible that that
is what you have in your tank? Just a thought. Jim Chuk Avids, Kitfox 4 Mn
>
>> From: kcozik(at)cablespeed.com
>> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Re: Ethanol?
>> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:38:22 -0400
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: K&MCozik <kcozik(at)cablespeed.com>
>>
>>
>> I removed the tank drain today so I could take a closer look and to clean. They
>> were covered with sticky resin and were almost impossible to push. When I did get
>> them to open, they wouldn't close. Both rubber "o" rings were melted as well.
>>
>> Like others have said before, this seems to be a very isolated case where it
>> doesn't seem to add up. Thanks to Tom I have a procedure for checking the level
of
>> additives which I'll do sometime this week. Hopefully we'll have some answers.
>>
>> Just for the record, My hangar mate has a model 4 1200 shipped around 1993. I
>> helped him pour a can of auto fuel in it 2 weeks ago and it has sat in the hanger
>> since. When I checked the tank this morning, no sign of damage at all.
>>
>> Kevin C
>> Series 6-7
>> Rotax 914
>> Czech floats
>> Laingsburg MI
>>
>> On Tue Jun 3 21:43 , 'dave' <dave(at)cfisher.com> sent:
>>
>> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" dave(at)cfisher.com>
>> >
>> >If you missed my last post I use well over 1000 gallons a year in my 582 Kitfox
>> alone in the wingtanks. We have had ethanol in our gas for 2 years. My tanks
>> have not fallen apart yet.
>> >If and when they do I will order new ones here www.wingtanks.com
>> >
>> >Kevin had an incident and I am sure there is an answer for it as it does seem
>> quite isolated. I see it as still in the fear mongering stage. I have dozens of
>> planes in my strip weekly and they all use auto gas and none have fallen outta
the
>> sky yet nor have the tanks melted.
>> >
>> > GO FIGURE !!!!!!!
>> >
>> >
>> >Dave
>> >
>> >--------
>> >Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
>> >Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
>> >http://www.cfisher.com/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php\?p=186127#186127
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Windows
Live™ Messenger. Add them now!
>
>
>
>
>> ========================>
Search that pays you back! Introducing Live Search cashback. Search Now!
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
