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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
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 Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:45 pm Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath |
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As builder and PIC, the blame cannot easily be laid elsewhere.
However, I had a bit of contact with the plane and the people at OSH
that year. I quickly surmised that there was an enabler of this
unfortunate chain of events. I didn't like what I saw.
| Quote: | I also was very disturbed that his engine provider was supporting his rushed and dangerous if not illegal progress....
There is wisdom in the CW regarding accidents; they usually occur as the
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result of a chain of events. There's little value in assessing choices
made on the fateful flight... it was just the end of an unfortunately
unbroken chain.
I wish I had a chance to meet and know Dan a bit. Sounded like a great guy.
Bill "glowing after torquing the spar bolts" Watson
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath |
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I never understood why people seemed to generally avoid saying Jan's name when referring to the engine builder. While dan made the vast majority of poor decisions in this, Jan was right there beside him encouraging him to keep going. I remember looking at eggenfellers RV-10 package at the same time as Dan so we talked a fair amount early on. Neither one of us was a fan of using 1940s technology in our modern aircraft. But as I poked and prodded Jans solution, I became very apparent that this was a case of napkin engineering, he not only couldn't explain why his performance numbers were changing almost weekly, but I was banned from his user group for asking legitimate questions around the performance. I was labeled a non-believer and exiled so to speak. So I went with the safe bet and ordered a new IO540x from Barrett and have never had a second thought.
Jan would never test his packages himself on aircraft, he refused to post performance numbers other than ones he developed based on what it should do based on automotive applications. He changed his design almost yearly and routinely dropped support for his "legacy" products. His redrive was redesigned almost as often and each time it was the best design, according to him, while leaving owners of previous designs high and dry. And now he has pulled the ultimate in dropping all support and responsibility for past solutions by starting a new company and closing the old.
As you can tell I have a very low opinion of Jan, he loves to threaten and try to intimidate if you don't believe what he is shoveling or question it in any way. Sure there have been successful installs of his package but there appears to be far more incomplete installations. Even his one time highest supporters seemed to abandon him after months and years in delivery delays and failed promises.
This is all my opinion and, In my opinion, Jan was a contributing factor in what happened and is one of the sleaziest of businessmen out there with no ethics. I hope karma bites him in the ass hard. Buyer be warned!
Sent from my iPad2
On Jul 3, 2011, at 1:00 AM, "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
I joined the community right before this tragic accident.
Rightly or wrongly, my impression after reading the article is to place more blame on the engine packager than I previously felt.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344762#344762
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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:41 am Post subject: Flying Magazine/Dan Lloyd/Aftermath |
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Intimidation is perhaps contagious? I don't know. I've never been
involved with the guy. I perhaps shook his hand at Osh that fateful
year... but then spent the rest of my first Osh trip listening to
stories about the guy (including Dan's).
I recognized the sleaze but noticed that people were either strong
'believers' or 'avoiders'. Ironically, people in both camps had been
burnt. Amazing. I'm actually a bit impressed by those who can do this
stuff that well.
He weaves a story we all want to respond to; "with all this fine
automotive engine technology, there has to be a cheaper more efficient
solution than a Lycosaur". Well yeah! Hell Yeah! Then he actually
develops and makes stuff... chips fly, pretty anodized parts are
fabricated, real aircraft are adapted.... all this makes him 'one of us'.
But his marketing and promotion skills tip over into the Svengali camp.
I just went on his Viking site and was transfixed. All this jumbled
content. Some of it broken, some of it not quite working, actually
showing very little, but all of it strangely compelling. Especially to
the person who wants to buy into the core story. I mean his comparative
thrust tests are right out of a carney show. The man knows how to push
buttons. And he makes a living at it I assume. The guy is a small
business entrepreneur, a hands on job creator, a hero!
"Putting information online is damaging to a small business and can end
up hurting the very support you need the most." Really? Have some of
this Kool-aid.
He's really good at stuff that will get the vulnerable in trouble. Run.
On 7/11/2011 11:04 PM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
| Quote: |
I never understood why people seemed to generally avoid saying Jan's name when referring to the engine builder. While dan made the vast majority of poor decisions in this, Jan was right there beside him encouraging him to keep going. I remember looking at eggenfellers RV-10 package at the same time as Dan so we talked a fair amount early on. Neither one of us was a fan of using 1940s technology in our modern aircraft. But as I poked and prodded Jans solution, I became very apparent that this was a case of napkin engineering, he not only couldn't explain why his performance numbers were changing almost weekly, but I was banned from his user group for asking legitimate questions around the performance. I was labeled a non-believer and exiled so to speak. So I went with the safe bet and ordered a new IO540x from Barrett and have never had a second thought.
Jan would never test his packages himself on aircraft, he refused to post performance numbers other than ones he developed based on what it should do based on automotive applications. He changed his design almost yearly and routinely dropped support for his "legacy" products. His redrive was redesigned almost as often and each time it was the best design, according to him, while leaving owners of previous designs high and dry. And now he has pulled the ultimate in dropping all support and responsibility for past solutions by starting a new company and closing the old.
As you can tell I have a very low opinion of Jan, he loves to threaten and try to intimidate if you don't believe what he is shoveling or question it in any way. Sure there have been successful installs of his package but there appears to be far more incomplete installations. Even his one time highest supporters seemed to abandon him after months and years in delivery delays and failed promises.
This is all my opinion and, In my opinion, Jan was a contributing factor in what happened and is one of the sleaziest of businessmen out there with no ethics. I hope karma bites him in the ass hard. Buyer be warned!
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