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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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 Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:33 pm Post subject: Service report |
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Aeroshell 100Plus is a way to throw away good money that could be buying
fuel. Only engines that require the Lycoming oil additive by AD (like
the O320H2AD engine) need the Plus. Regular 100 is fine as is, and cam
guard would be a good anti-corrosive. All the Lycoming additive does is
add extreme pressure lube (TCP to be precise) but does nothing for
corrosion protection.
On 10/17/2011 3:18 PM, dmaib(at)me.com wrote:
| Quote: |
I had my MT propeller off during the summer of 2010 when I was replacing my air conditioner compressor and alternator mounts. I had MT repaint the prop while it was off. MT went through the prop and replaced seals and checked everything while they had it. There was sludge in my crank (just under 300 hours at that time) and MT was unconcerned, as was the A&P next door to me that rebuilds quite a few engines. I cleaned it out and went on my way. My engine overhauler recommended W100 Plus for a warm climate airplane and that is what I have been using since shortly after finishing phase 1. Prior to that I was using W100 and adding camguard.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355318#355318
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:34 am Post subject: Service report |
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I was told that this is very typical by a local mechanic. I have cleaned mine twice and have used mostly Aeroshell 15-50.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 17, 2011, at 2:29 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Just to keep the waters as muddy as possible...
I've used both X/C 20-50 and am presently using Exxon Elite,
and basically I've found the same issue when using both of them.
I know as Kelly says, the mineral oil can suspend some things
better than the semi synthetics, so I'm sure that could have
some effect, but this isn't really all that much like
sludge...it's more like a deposit of lead. I could
save some next time I look, but, in order to see it you have
to pull your prop. With that in mind, my guess is that
many many people have this happening but most just don't know
it because they haven't had the opportunity to pull their
prop to replace a belt or anything like that.
It could be from colder weather operation, it could be
something maybe from operating at higher altitudes.
Who knows. I did take note of it, but didn't really
think of it as something completely unusual. It looks
a bit like grey modeling clay. It came out real easy
for me. It collects in the prop hub, just around that
o-ring area where it meets the crankshaft.
I just got off the phone with Hartzell to get their take
on it. I'm not worried about it but I find it strange
that when people worry about things, they don't call the
obvious sources first...and get the vendor answer. So
I did. He said that they've seen that before and it's
basically engine sludge. He didn't want to venture a
guess as to what it's comprised of, but personally I
really would think it could easily be lead byproducts
from piston blowby that would just naturally occur.
When I told him that I had 800 hours since early 2006,
he said "that's a lot of hours". So apparently to them,
I've got quite a bit of time on the prop. He said
TBO is 6 years or 2400 hours, so sometime next year
he says I should consider an overhaul...and noted that
since I'm an experimental that I'm not regulated to
do that, but could consider it. He said if I wanted
to, I could have the prop flushed. Personally I'm
really not that worried. The prop functions fine,
and the buildup seems to be limited to just that
one area. I don't remember super well (heck,it's
only been a month, how old am I getting?!) but I
think maybe that area of the hub is larger in
diameter and gives an area to collect easily. The
centrifugal force would tend to get gunk to collect
there. So I just clean it out, and go on my merry
way. Looking into the prop it doesn't look as
bad at all, nor into the crank...just that area.
So anyway, you should probably all be replacing belts
every 5 years and things of that nature anyway, so
just take the time to BUY A COUPLE EXTRA PROP O-RINGS
so you can change them EVERY time you pull the prop,
and then pull your prop at annual maybe ever 3-5 years
and give it an inspection. Maybe you'll see something
to clean out, maybe you won't.
On the topic of oil, the general take of Aviation Consumer
is that Exxon Elite has slightly better corrosion
protection but their recommendation for oil (partly due to
cost) is Philips X/C 20-50 to save money and for good
oil, and then a bottle of camguard for added corrosion
protection. I think this is reasonable advice. Most
planes in my area have run X/C 20-50 for years (remember
i'm in a colder area) and have had no issues. I myself
wanted the best corrosion protection I can have, because
I don't fly as often in the colder months, so I paid
the upcharge for Exxon Elite for oil and I STILL run
camguard in the engine. I've also spent a few hundred
hours with X/C 20-50. My old plane I used Aeroshell.
So I've used them all. If it weren't for the fact that
I already own 6 or 8 cases of elite, I'd consider
running Philips x/c 20-50 again, but I'd never
drop the camguard.
Tim
On 10/17/2011 2:20 PM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
>
>
> I reported my experience not knowing if it was normal. It seems that Tim has had the same experience.
>
> I will switch oil brand to see if another oil gives different results. Considering this a research opportunity.
>
> I remember that there was an AD to inspect hollow crank for corrosion when using fixed pitched prop. I remember that I checked my rv6 crank and found no sludge after a few hundred hours.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Rob Kermanj
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:32 am Post subject: Service report |
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Thanks. Good to know. My RV 6 hardly had any sludge in the crack so I got excited about it.
Rob Kermanj
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 18, 2011, at 11:32 AM, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
I was told that this is very typical by a local mechanic. I have cleaned mine twice and have used mostly Aeroshell 15-50.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 17, 2011, at 2:29 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:
>
>
> Just to keep the waters as muddy as possible...
>
> I've used both X/C 20-50 and am presently using Exxon Elite,
> and basically I've found the same issue when using both of them.
> I know as Kelly says, the mineral oil can suspend some things
> better than the semi synthetics, so I'm sure that could have
> some effect, but this isn't really all that much like
> sludge...it's more like a deposit of lead. I could
> save some next time I look, but, in order to see it you have
> to pull your prop. With that in mind, my guess is that
> many many people have this happening but most just don't know
> it because they haven't had the opportunity to pull their
> prop to replace a belt or anything like that.
>
> It could be from colder weather operation, it could be
> something maybe from operating at higher altitudes.
> Who knows. I did take note of it, but didn't really
> think of it as something completely unusual. It looks
> a bit like grey modeling clay. It came out real easy
> for me. It collects in the prop hub, just around that
> o-ring area where it meets the crankshaft.
>
> I just got off the phone with Hartzell to get their take
> on it. I'm not worried about it but I find it strange
> that when people worry about things, they don't call the
> obvious sources first...and get the vendor answer. So
> I did. He said that they've seen that before and it's
> basically engine sludge. He didn't want to venture a
> guess as to what it's comprised of, but personally I
> really would think it could easily be lead byproducts
> from piston blowby that would just naturally occur.
>
> When I told him that I had 800 hours since early 2006,
> he said "that's a lot of hours". So apparently to them,
> I've got quite a bit of time on the prop. He said
> TBO is 6 years or 2400 hours, so sometime next year
> he says I should consider an overhaul...and noted that
> since I'm an experimental that I'm not regulated to
> do that, but could consider it. He said if I wanted
> to, I could have the prop flushed. Personally I'm
> really not that worried. The prop functions fine,
> and the buildup seems to be limited to just that
> one area. I don't remember super well (heck,it's
> only been a month, how old am I getting?!) but I
> think maybe that area of the hub is larger in
> diameter and gives an area to collect easily. The
> centrifugal force would tend to get gunk to collect
> there. So I just clean it out, and go on my merry
> way. Looking into the prop it doesn't look as
> bad at all, nor into the crank...just that area.
>
> So anyway, you should probably all be replacing belts
> every 5 years and things of that nature anyway, so
> just take the time to BUY A COUPLE EXTRA PROP O-RINGS
> so you can change them EVERY time you pull the prop,
> and then pull your prop at annual maybe ever 3-5 years
> and give it an inspection. Maybe you'll see something
> to clean out, maybe you won't.
>
> On the topic of oil, the general take of Aviation Consumer
> is that Exxon Elite has slightly better corrosion
> protection but their recommendation for oil (partly due to
> cost) is Philips X/C 20-50 to save money and for good
> oil, and then a bottle of camguard for added corrosion
> protection. I think this is reasonable advice. Most
> planes in my area have run X/C 20-50 for years (remember
> i'm in a colder area) and have had no issues. I myself
> wanted the best corrosion protection I can have, because
> I don't fly as often in the colder months, so I paid
> the upcharge for Exxon Elite for oil and I STILL run
> camguard in the engine. I've also spent a few hundred
> hours with X/C 20-50. My old plane I used Aeroshell.
> So I've used them all. If it weren't for the fact that
> I already own 6 or 8 cases of elite, I'd consider
> running Philips x/c 20-50 again, but I'd never
> drop the camguard.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 10/17/2011 2:20 PM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
>>
>>
>> I reported my experience not knowing if it was normal. It seems that Tim has had the same experience.
>>
>> I will switch oil brand to see if another oil gives different results. Considering this a research opportunity.
>>
>> I remember that there was an AD to inspect hollow crank for corrosion when using fixed pitched prop. I remember that I checked my rv6 crank and found no sludge after a few hundred hours.
>>
>> Do not archive.
>>
>> Rob Kermanj
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>
>
>
>
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