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wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: Specs

Thanks. Yes some folks don't realize that the engine actually breathes

quite a lot of air through breather vents. I drained them about ever

other oil change or 50 hours. The more blow- by you have the more that

is accumulated in the separators. Yep, that was the manual control, way

to much work load. Pretty touchy as I am sure you found out.



Rick



--

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:08 pm Post subject: Specs

Rick,



About when did your Soob break in?  What were the

symptoms?  Temps, blowby oil accumulated, power?



I heard that about 300 hrs is the magic number.  Since

yours was a superior engine, I understand results may

vary.  



Kurt S.



--- wingsdown <wingsdown(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks. Yes some folks don't realize that the engine

 actually breathes

 quite a lot of air through breather vents. I drained

 them about ever

 other oil change or 50 hours. The more blow- by you

 have the more that is accumulated in the separators.


	


__________________________________________________

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:35 pm Post subject: Specs

Rick,



Right now it is set so that the primary pump gives its

4-6 psi and the B/U pump comes on when pressure drops

to 3.5 psi for any reason in flight.



Before this setup, I ran one pump in flight, except

T/O and landing, and found the pressure could get down

below 2 psi under high power on one pump.



In neither case could I catch the fuel pressure being

the cause.  Not ruled out, but EGT was good for the

entire flight, or not good, and fuel pressure varied

with power, not per flight.



I plan to revamp the fuel system, tank to engine, and

see if I can stumble across a cure.  One size larger

tubing too.  1/4th inch ID for the smallest line right

now.



Kurt S.



--- wingsdown <wingsdown(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Are  you leaving the fuel pump on all the time? If

 you are not seeing 5

 psi all the time that could be a possible problem.

 With the pump off you

 will see higher EGTs. Has that been your experience

 as well. 

 

 Rick


	


__________________________________________________

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: Specs

Boy 1/4 sure seems small. Did you do a flow test. Under full power you

can flow as much as 16.5 GPH maybe more.  With that 1/4 line I could see

how you might have pressure but lack adequate volume/ flow. Minimum

would be 3/8 to my thinking.



Rick



--

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: Specs

Well we can not count all the stock exhaust cross over failures until we

got the new SS set. I think I had just the right number of fingers

though. 350 hours seems about right, and it was an exhaust valve that

snapped just below the scallop number 3 cylinder. That was stock

components. SS with bronze guides is the only way to go for the boost

folks. If I were doing another set of heads I would coat at least coat

the exhaust runners and ports with Swain coating. The beat would be a

complete coating of the combustion chamber in the heads and all exposed

aluminum. I did the SS valve crowns as well. 



OK misread the whole dang post.



Compression was good from the get go and only improved marginally over

time. I don't remember the numbers but I want to say 140 all around. No

real blow by on new engine. I wish I had kept better notes. I also had

the block, rings and pistons cryogenic  treated so who knows. I was

really looking forward to a 3000hr TBO 



Rick



--

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: Specs

This is new news to me Rick, you saying that the stock soob turbo valves not 

good? I have the stock (original) valve gear still fitted?? John



From:  "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject:  RE: Specs

Date:  Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:37:37 -0700




Well we can not count all the stock exhaust cross over failures until we

got the new SS set. I think I had just the right number of fingers

though. 350 hours seems about right, and it was an exhaust valve that

snapped just below the scallop number 3 cylinder. That was stock

components. SS with bronze guides is the only way to go for the boost

folks. If I were doing another set of heads I would coat at least coat

the exhaust runners and ports with Swain coating. The beat would be a

complete coating of the combustion chamber in the heads and all exposed

aluminum. I did the SS valve crowns as well.



OK misread the whole dang post.



Compression was good from the get go and only improved marginally over

time. I don't remember the numbers but I want to say 140 all around. No

real blow by on new engine. I wish I had kept better notes. I also had

the block, rings and pistons cryogenic  treated so who knows. I was

really looking forward to a 3000hr TBO 



Rick



--

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject: Specs

Just what I believe to be true. Stock valves are just that stock steel

valves. Our application subjects them to IMHO abnormal stresses. I have

by no means done any subjective test nor do I have reams of research to

document anything. Just based on my observations, personal, observed and

read. What's great about this media we exchange ideas, thoughts and

experiences in is the collective wisdom or at least red flags that are

raised. If I built another engine these things I would do.



Rick 



--

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject: Specs

Good info anyway Rick,



You are way ahead of the rest of us on Soob Nuke

hardening.  



Correcting my oil blowing breather, I capped the old

one off and ran a large ID, long, clear line from it

to my new breather, which I put on the right seat. 

(That probably hasn't been done too often)  Flew that

for a while and watched the engine breath.



Interesting!  Not exactly what I expected.  The engine

was tight and had only a slow migration of oil mist to

the collector.  The white oily air wafted out the

filter and drifted around the cockpit showing very

little blowby.  I suppose there was a lot more air

exchange left-right-left-right going on thru the old

breather and the pan.



Other lessons from the test were that I have few air

leaks in the cockpit, even though I didn't drop down

the curved up corners on my canopy.  You are going to

get an oily mist blowing around under your cowl.  And

don't mention "smoke in the cockpit" on Unicom where

someone who doesn't understand might hear it! 

Casually mentioned "only light smoke in the cockpit"

to my ground support, as someone else ran out to

prepare the runway at another airport.    Last

lesson, good range on my radio..... 



My SS exhaust was not done well and I sent it back for

fixing.  The left exhaust was welded over a hole  in

the crossover about 1/2 the size of the pipe and I

thought it would flow badly.  Also the tap for my

Fuel/Air ratio probe ran right into the turbo-out pipe

and was unusable.  I asked them to open the exhaust

hole and rotate the probe tap 30 degrees.  They

improved the hole, but rotated the tap 70 degrees on

the next try, right into the engine head.



I gave up and fixed it myself.  The clincher was that

they threw a bag of nuts in with the second attempt. 

I am from Wisconsin like the welder, but still didn't

like the humor in that.  Not good customer relations,

especially since I was very kind to them.  For the

$700 it eventually cost, I wanted a quality part.



Rick, did you smooth out the intake/exhaust ports for

better flow before coating?



I haven't had mine apart much, but did see that the

case was in raw form with jagged holes around the

pushrods from the casting.  I suspect that the engine

could be spiffied up some, be a pound lighter and

breath a little easier.



Kurt S.  S-5/NSI turbo



--- wingsdown <wingsdown(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Well we can not count all the stock exhaust cross

 over failures until we

 got the new SS set. I think I had just the right

 number of fingers

 though. 350 hours seems about right, and it was an

 exhaust valve that

 snapped just below the scallop number 3 cylinder.

 That was stock

 components. SS with bronze guides is the only way to

 go for the boost

 folks. If I were doing another set of heads I would

 coat at least coat

 the exhaust runners and ports with Swain coating.

 The beat would be a

 complete coating of the combustion chamber in the

 heads and all exposed

 aluminum. I did the SS valve crowns as well. 

 

 OK misread the whole dang post.

 

 Compression was good from the get go and only

 improved marginally over

 time. I don't remember the numbers but I want to say

 140 all around. No

 real blow by on new engine. I wish I had kept better

 notes. I also had

 the block, rings and pistons cryogenic  treated so

 who knows. I was

 really looking forward to a 3000hr TBO 

 

 Rick


	


__________________________________________________

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:26 pm Post subject: Specs

Rick,



--- wingsdown <wingsdown(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Boy 1/4 sure seems small. Did you do a flow test.

 Under full power you

 can flow as much as 16.5 GPH maybe more.  With that

 1/4 line I could see

 how you might have pressure but lack adequate

 volume/ flow. Minimum would be 3/8 to my thinking.

 

 Rick


	


Yes, I checked it gravity and with each pump.  Got the

exact results somewhere because I was trying to

calibrate the FF gauge too.  Could only gravity flow

for the FF gauge to keep it on scale.



Had plenty of gravity for cruise (I think 7-8 GPH

static (no tank ram pressure) and off the meter with a

pump on.  I forget the pump rates when I timed them. 

I timed for 1 and 5 gallons each test and it seemed

plenty.  Must have done 10 tests or more.



In fact, my engine kept running in cruise with both

pumps off and the valve blown out my gascolator, when

flying down here.  It had a little boost from the tank

vents, so it showed about 8 to 8.5 GPH with an

estimated 3 GPH of that blowing out the gascolator in

flight.



I thought the engine had to be sucking some air with

the fuel in the gascolator like that, but it ran, and

luckily it was one of those times where it was running

normally richer.  At full enrichment I could still

keep 1450 EGT, no pumps and dumping!  But at 3200

rpm....



And it runs rich, 1300-1350 EGT's at full power.  But

left full rich, it can hit 1550 at 4000 rpm.



I suspect I damaged the carb at the start with

overpressure, or unknownly buying fuel with alcohol

early on.  It is the only thing I can think of. 

Still, I am going to larger lines.



Kurt S.



__________________________________________________

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:30 am Post subject: Specs

Yes Rick, I agree re the great benefit from exchange of good ideas and more 

so red flags. The valve that let go (on your engine?), was it an original or 

replacement? I reused the original valves in my engine as they looked 

perfect and it was a low mileage engine. John



From:  "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject:  RE: Specs

Date:  Wed, 7 Jun 2006 21:11:23 -0700




  Just what I believe to be true. Stock valves are just that stock steel

valves. Our application subjects them to IMHO abnormal stresses. I have

by no means done any subjective test nor do I have reams of research to

document anything. Just based on my observations, personal, observed and

read. What's great about this media we exchange ideas, thoughts and

experiences in is the collective wisdom or at least red flags that are

raised. If I built another engine these things I would do.



Rick



--

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject: Specs

Rick, did you smooth out the intake/exhaust ports for

better flow before coating?



No I did not. If I had the non-turbo maybe, but without a flow bench it

would be a magic act. Flow through the heads with the turbo is not a

major problem at the RPMs we run. The coating is for thermal protection

of the aluminum. 



Rick

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: Specs

Original stock valve. Not sure if one can see hardening or fatigue

caused by temperature cycling. There is a fancy name for it, but I must

be getting old. 



Rick 



--

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: Specs

Did the engine loose power/miss before it went? I had a valve head pop on a 

1600 VW (Beetle) and every time I checked the valve clearance it was tight. 

Silly me didn't twig!! Perhaps with hyd lifters it wouldn't show?? John



From:  "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject:  RE: Specs

Date:  Thu, 8 Jun 2006 18:25:04 -0700




Original stock valve. Not sure if one can see hardening or fatigue

caused by temperature cycling. There is a fancy name for it, but I must

be getting old.



Rick



--

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: Specs

Did the engine loose power/miss before it went? I had a valve head pop on a 1600 VW (Beetle) and every time I checked the valve clearance it was tight. Silly me didn't twig!! Perhaps with hyd lifters it wouldn't show?? John

 

 [quote]   

From:  "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject:  RE: Specs

Date:  Thu, 8 Jun 2006 18:25:04 -0700

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net>



Original stock valve. Not sure if one can see hardening or fatigue

caused by temperature cycling. There is a fancy name for it, but I must

be getting old.



Rick



--

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: Specs

I was fortunate in the fact that the head of the valve and seat shut the

turbo down. Had it not I think the engine might have been torn from the

mounts. No, just a LOUD rump sound and mysterious puff of smoke followed

by silence, a slide slip, flair,   and roll out on the last taxi way. It

was kind of cool, expensive , but hey you cant buy rides like that.

:)And then the opportunity to build something else as an added bonus.



Rick



--

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject: Specs

Luuuuuky Rick!!!

From: "wingsdown"  

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com 

To:  

Subject: RE: Specs 

Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 19:30:03 -0700 

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown"  

I was fortunate in the fact that the head of the valve and seat shut the 

turbo down. Had it not I think the engine might have been torn from the 

mounts. No, just a LOUD rump sound and mysterious puff of smoke followed 

by silence, a slide slip, flair,   and roll out on the last taxi way. It 

was kind of cool, expensive , but hey you cant buy rides like that. 

:)And then the opportunity to build something else as an added bonus. 

Rick 

--

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject: Specs

Thanks,



I have rebuilt engines, but never modified them for

racing, etc, so I am no expert at it.  Well, once I

did soup up a VW exhaust, ignition, and intake filter

to get another 3 hp or so out of it.....  Still lost 5

knots when I went to high beam.  



kurt S.



--- wingsdown <wingsdown(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Rick, did you smooth out the intake/exhaust ports

 for better flow before coating?

....................
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 No I did not. If I had the non-turbo maybe, but

 without a flow bench it

 would be a magic act. Flow through the heads with

 the turbo is not a

 major problem at the RPMs we run. The coating is for

 thermal protection

 of the aluminum. 

 

 Rick


	


__________________________________________________

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject: Specs

Don't know if it helps, but it can't hurt to have a

clutch allow the prop to freewheel, if the engine

seizes.  Don't need the entra prop momentum helping

rip things apart.  Probably only a benefit at low rpm,

but we have one on the NSI package.



My only  with the least modified, lowest powered

turbo Soob on the list.



Kurt S.



Do not archive



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



Luuuuuky Rick!!!



__________________________________________________

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