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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:45 am Post subject: Stits

The FAA uses Michigan mosquitoes as test birds for  windshields and jet engines.>>

  

 Reminds me of the story that when we were flying  Concorde the FAA aproached the works at Bristol and asked how the engines were  tested regarding bird strikes.

 Bristol replied that they had designed a catapult  to could throw  chickens into the intake.

 FAA.  "We do that but it always smashes up the  engine"

 Bristol. "Defrost the chickens"

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

  

  

   [quote][b]

vince(at)devonwindmills.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:55 am Post subject: Stits

Pj, 

         Were you  there at Filton when that was done? I was. I also tried them at 58000 feet and  they all flamed out.Great gliding !!

 Tel: 01803 316191

Mob: 07941 313141

www.devonwindmills.co.uk

Woodlands,  Walls Hill Road, Torquay, TQ1 3LZ

 [quote]   ---

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:33 am Post subject: Stits

Were you there at Filton when that was  done?>>

  

 Hi Vince,

  

 No, but I was Secretary of the British  Interplanetary Society Branch in Bristol and a number of our committee worked at  British Aerospace or whatever it was called then and that kept me in the loop to  some extent.

 I live about 30 miles from Filton and I remember  the Vulcan that had its bomb bay  fitted out as a test bed for the Concorde  engines growling around the sky locally.

 I was on the beach near Weston super Mare as  Concorde banked at the end of  her final fly by circuit before landing  at  Filton for the last time. There was not a dry eye in house, she was soo  beautiful and we shall not see her like again.A sad end to a marvellous  chapter in aviation.

 Thankfully I was lucky enough to fly in her 3  times. Once to Egypt, FOR THE DAY, how cool is that, and twice to the States.  The cheer that went up as the Machmeter on the bulkhead in the cabin clicked up  Mach 1 and then Mach 2. Great memories

  

 How about your story of flameouts at 58000ft. Thats  got to be good. If you don`t think it appropriate for the list try pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com (pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com). I would really  like to hear it.

  

 Pat

  

 Pat  

   [quote][b]

vicsv(at)myfairpoint.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:47 am Post subject: Stits

That's an under statement on the Canadian  Mosquitos. A while back

 a heard of them crossed the border here in Maine.  The National Guard 

 scrambled 2 fighters.

  

  Hey "Skeeter" U believe that  one?

  

 Vic

  

 Do not archive

   [quote][b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:05 am Post subject: Stits

Jack Hart-  I am doing some planning, prior to purchasing a lot of Poly Fiber materials.  As weight was one of your considerations when you built your Firefly, what did you select for materials, how many layers, etc.?  Your web site is rather vague on it.  As it stands right now, I think I will go with the Piper Trainer Blue as recommended in the book, but I would like all the advice I can get.  

   Also, has anyone tried a Wagner electric sprayer for Poly Tone?  The two manuals seem to go either way.  I am a "dip it and drip it" painter.  If it drips, it probably won't rust.

  

                                                 Bill Sullivan

                                                 Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                 FS 447

 [quote][b]

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:21 am Post subject: Stits

Where's Jack...?? 



   Any how...jumping in...



  My experience has been that one needs to use retarder/Reducer per 

the temperature on the day you are shooting the paint... if not..the 

paint will dry/cob web before it hits the surface and you will have a 

mess..  Also..be sure to set the fan pattern of your $29.95 paint gun 

(they work just as well as the high dollar ones)  .   Acetone or Mek 

is getting so expensive that you can just about toss the 

sprayer  cheaper than cleaning the bugger!!   Well!!  not quite..!



     Just shoot a piece of card board and adjust the spray 

pattern  sort of like an upright V with an inverted V stacked on 

top...  Without that your 50% overlap while spraying will be screwed 

up...   Be sure to maintain the same distance  while moving the 

sprayer back and forth...I find that I do best while rocking back and 

forth from one foot to the other.. sort of a 60's dance .....

     Herb(still a novice)

At 07:00 AM 4/24/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Jack Hart-  I am doing some planning, prior to purchasing a lot of 

Poly Fiber materials.  As weight was one of your considerations when 

you built your Firefly, what did you select for materials, how many 

layers, etc.?  Your web site is rather vague on it.  As it stands 

right now, I think I will go with the Piper Trainer Blue as 

recommended in the book, but I would like all the advice I can get.

   Also, has anyone tried a Wagner electric sprayer for Poly 

 Tone?  The two manuals seem to go either way.  I am a "dip it and 

 drip it" painter.  If it drips, it probably won't rust.



                                                 Bill Sullivan

                                                 Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                 FS 447

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:32 am Post subject: Stits

Herb- Is that with the Wagner, or an air gun?  Will the MEK disolve the plastics in the gun?  I never had much luck with an air gun, but I get along with the Wagner.

  

                                             Bill Sullivan

                                             Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                             FS 447

 [quote][b]

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:32 am Post subject: Stits

don't bother to try that electric sprayer.  You will be wasting expensive paint.At a minimum buy a cheapo at harbor freight.  Borrow or rent a compressor if you need more capacity.

I think they now offer a HVLP system now but don't know if it's any good.

BB



On 24, Apr 2009, at 8:00 AM, william sullivan wrote:

[quote]Jack Hart-  I am doing some planning, prior to purchasing a lot of Poly Fiber materials.  As weight was one of your considerations when you built your Firefly, what did you select for materials, how many layers, etc.?  Your web site is rather vague on it.  As it stands right now, I think I will go with the Piper Trainer Blue as recommended in the book, but I would like all the advice I can get.  

   Also, has anyone tried a Wagner electric sprayer for Poly Tone?  The two manuals seem to go either way.  I am a "dip it and drip it" painter.  If it drips, it probably won't rust.

  

                                                 Bill Sullivan

                                                 Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                 FS 447

  	  Quote: 	
		  

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:37 am Post subject: Stits

Bob- I can get the compressor.  I never used an HVLP gun.  The regular Binks style is what I have used, but I may have well used a roller.  

  

                                          Bill Sullivan

                                          Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                          FS 447

 [quote][b]

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:46 am Post subject: Stits

I do not think the Wagner will do the job??    run abt 60 psi on your 

sprayer.. plus sor minus...     Herb

At 08:28 AM 4/24/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     Herb- Is that with the Wagner, or an air gun?  Will the MEK 

 disolve the plastics in the gun?  I never had much luck with an air 

 gun, but I get along with the Wagner.



                                             Bill Sullivan

                                             Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                             FS 447

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:10 am Post subject: Stits

Practice with paint thinner/brush cleaner on a cardboard box or sheet of plywood.The first problem to stay ahead of is the little plastic loop on the top vent hole.  Make sure that is breathing 

at all times.  Between uses always flush with reducer,  put a couple of inches of reducer in the cup and leave the

nozzle assembly inside when done for the day.  After you are finished with the project store it dry because it will dry out anyway.

One control screw is for total volume (trigger range) and the other is for pattern fan.

Run at least 50 lbs.   A regulator should be inline close to the gun because a long hose will give too

much pressure drop.  

If you haven't painted in over a year expect to experience another learning cycle each time.

BB



On 24, Apr 2009, at 9:36 AM, william sullivan wrote:

[quote]  Bob- I can get the compressor.  I never used an HVLP gun.  The regular Binks style is what I have used, but I may have well used a roller.  

  

                                          Bill Sullivan

                                          Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                          FS 447

  	  Quote: 	
		  

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:48 am Post subject: Stits

From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 05:00:50 -0700 (PDT)

 	  Quote: 	

Jack Hart-  I am doing some planning, prior to purchasing a lot of Poly 

Fiber materials.  As weight was one of your considerations when you built 

your Firefly, what did you select for materials, how many layers, etc.?  

Your web site is rather vague on it.  As it stands right now, I think I will 

go with the Piper Trainer Blue as recommended in the book, but I would like 

all the advice I can get.  

 	  Quote: 	

Bill,

I brushed on the first coat of sealer, then I sprayed the second coat of 

sealer on all surfaces.  I sprayed two coats of aluminum on the top surfaces 

of the wings and tail feathers.  This was followed by two coats color and 

all surfaces. The aluminum and color coats where sprayed cross hatched to 

each other.  Also all sprayed coats were very light.

I had never sprayed anything before. I purchased a cheapie gravity flow gun 

from someone like Harbor Freight.  I practiced some on the wall of my shop 

and then went at it.  The biggest problem is organization.  Except the cage, 

I hung all parts from the roof truss.  This let me spray on to vertical 

surfaces.  I started spraying sealer on one side and then I would move the 

part(s) over along the truss so that I could paint the opposite side, then a 

wing and the second wing.  Then I moved all the parts back to the starting 

point. Then I dumped the gun out and blew it out with thinner and filled it 

with aluminum.  By this time the minimum them between coats had passed.  

Sprayed the wall to bring in the aluminum and repeated the process.  After 

the two coats of aluminum, I did the same thing with color.  From start to 

finish it took around six hours.

To be able to do this I borrowed a fresh air breathing pump with a full face 

mask.  It had about a 40' hose.  One had move in patterned way so that it 

did not get tangled.  I had a paint bench that would hold the gun while 

filling.  The biggest problem was that the leading edges of the wings were 

about two feet off the floor, so I had to do a lot of knee bends.

When I finished and opened the door to let the natural light in, I was 

alarmed in that the color did not look good and the fabric tension would be 

best described as limp.  In disappointment, I went to the house to get 

cleaned up.  An hour or so later I went back down to the shop and discovered 

things were looking better.  Two days later it looked great.  By spraying 

multiple coats in quick succession the solvents could not vent from the wing 

interior.  They worked on the Dacron and turned it into a limp dish rag.  

But as the solvents perked out and the paint cured, the Dacron tightened up 

and the color lightened to what I thought I had purchased.

I ended up with some runs, and I know where they are.  Fly-in crowds will 

look it over and then they will ask, if I built it.  I say "yes", and they 

do not mention the runs.  Next question is "How does it fly?", and of course 

I say "great".

Hope this helps.

Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: Stits

Jack- Did you use Poly Tone or Aerothene?  You ought to write all that up for your web site.  Thanks.

  

                                           Bill Sullivan

                                           Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                           FS 447

 [quote][b]

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:12 am Post subject: Stits

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:46:37 -0700 (PDT)

From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>

 	  Quote: 	
		  

  Jack- Did you use Poly Tone or Aerothene?  You ought to write all that up for your web site.  Thanks.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   


	


Poly Tone



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:34 pm Post subject: Stits

Bill,



One other thought.  At my old EAA chapter in south east Missouri some 

builders used polytone through the first sealing coat and then finished out 

the rest with latex paint.  Most used rollers of various sizes and came up 

with very attractive color combinations.  They claimed good cost savings.  

No air compressor or gun.  Did not have to work with a mask, and latex clean 

up was water.  For UV protection they used black latex on the upper 

surfaces.



All of my FireFly fairings are covered with a Dacron party dress material, 

organza.  It is glued to the surface with red house latex paint.  I ran some 

tests, and discovered that after curing three days that when I tried to peal 

the organza from the underlying foam, the failure occurred in the foam.  

Before that time, the organza would peel from, up, and through the latex.



FWIW



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:09 am Post subject: Stits

I have read the manuals- short and long version- and found the reference to the electric spray gun.  I happen to have one, and that's why I asked.  I have needed a compressor for quite a while anyway, so I may as well get one.  Anybody have any comments as to the actual, practical differences between gun types?  HVLP vs. conventional?  I never used an HVLP.  Also, I am looking for anyone's pet tips on the covering process.  I have done about 5 patches on Aerothane, and I have been practicing on an extra aileron.  The only things the manual is kind of vague on is working the material on tight corners- like the trailing edge corner of the aileron.  Any hints appreciated.

   Also, what is a good way to remove Aerothane from metal parts, like hinges?  Wire brush?  I do not think heat would be appropriate.  Or would Poly Tone paint right over it?

  

                                                    Bill Sullivan

                                                    Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                    FS 447

 [quote][b]

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