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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:46 pm Post subject: Speaking of physics . . .

Last week I had occasion to refer a colleague to

a series of videos available from MIT on their

website at http://ocw.mit.edu



In particular the lectures offered by Walter Lewin

on various topics in physics. Highly recommended

for anyone interested in a refresher . . . or grandparents

hoping to plant the seeds of interests in

grandchildren.



   Bob . . .

uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:27 pm Post subject: Speaking of physics . . .

Hi Bob

Any particular one which is relevant to aero electrics? There are 567 hits for Walter Lewin lectures on the site...

Sacha

On Dec 12, 2013, at 23:45, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Last week I had occasion to refer a colleague to

 a series of videos available from MIT on their

 website at http://ocw.mit.edu

 

 In particular the lectures offered by Walter Lewin

 on various topics in physics. Highly recommended

 for anyone interested in a refresher . . . or grandparents

 hoping to plant the seeds of interests in

 grandchildren.

 

 

 

  Bob . . .

Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Speaking of physics . . .

Bob, et al.--- Walter Lewin is great stuff!

_____________________



I posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:31 am    



Off Topic: 

When you think you understand electronics, see Google: " You Tube 

M I T Walter Lewin Complete Breakdown of Intuition Part 1 " 



If you are really brave see Part 2.



_____________________



Also, any You Tube re: Richard Feynman.



Merry Xmas

_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:53 am Post subject: Speaking of physics . . .

At 07:52 AM 12/13/2013, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Bob, et al.--- Walter Lewin is great stuff!


	


    Yeah, he's one of my heros.



   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:12 am Post subject: Speaking of physics . . .

At 05:26 PM 12/12/2013, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hi Bob

Any particular one which is relevant to aero electrics? There are 

567 hits for Walter Lewin lectures on the site...

Sacha


	


    ALL are relevant.



    EVERY discipline reduced to the most fundamental

    components will invariably illustrate principals

    of motion, force, friction, dissipation of energy,

    radiation, behaviors of materials, etc. etc.



    I invoked a sampling of these ideas in our consideration

    of risk for "loose items in cockpit" causing near

    catastrophic events and a consideration of likelihood

    that a slide switch is more resistant to vibration than

    a toggle switch.



    A great deal of what passes for considered decision

    making is based on conclusions unsupported by the simple-ideas

    in physics. Much of what I did during my last years

    at Beech was to discover the constellation of operating

    simple-ideas responsible for failure to perform . . .

    troubleshooting down to the lowest common denominator.



    A solid grounding in physics is the cornerstone

    of virtually every other discipline . . . the whole

    universe and every system within runs on simple-ideas

    in physics.

   Bob . . .

jan(at)CLAVER.DEMON.CO.UK
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:22 am Post subject: Speaking of physics . . .

Amen to that !!! 



Jan



Do not archive



--

jluckey(at)pacbell.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:19 pm Post subject: Speaking of physics . . .

Bob,



Your cursory and simplified analysis of the dynamics of switch vibration neither has sufficient data nor analysis to draw any conclusions. (I don't think you intended it to) Therefore it neither confirms nor refutes the suggestion that sliders are used because they handle vibration better in RC applications.



Let's talk about "..loose items ..":



I know you are not saying that the idea of "..loose items in the cockpit.." is impossible. In other words, I believe we agree that it is possible for foreign objects to get stuck in bad places.  However, you seem to be rather dismissive of the ideas I have put forward.   The crux of your argument seems to be based on the likelihood of a particular bad event.



Therein lies the problem - how to derive the  likelihood. I suppose one could  scour NTSB accident records to search for incidents of bad  thing X happening.  (But that requires a larger  amount of effort than most of us are willing or able to put forth. There are other considerations in doing research of this nature - suffice it to say it is not a trivial task)



Therefore, in the absence of a probability for an event that is perhaps unlikely but not impossible, I offer the following idea:             



If there is a simple, easy, & cheap prophylactic action that can be taken to prevent something bad, even if the bad thing is statistically remote (or the statistics are unknown), then why not take that action?



The "why not" question is important because even seemingly benign solutions have pros & cons and we certainly don't want the cure to be worse than the disease.  I ask that "why not..." question a lot and lately have been getting less than satisfying answers.



-Jeff

      From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 10:12 AM

 Subject: Re: Speaking of physics . . .

  

 

 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>



At 05:26 PM 12/12/2013, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com (uuccio(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Hi Bob

 Any particular one which is relevant to aero electrics? There are 567 hits for Walter Lewin lectures on the site...

 Sacha


	


   ALL are relevant.



   EVERY discipline reduced to the most fundamental

   components will invariably illustrate principals

   of motion, force, friction, dissipation of energy,

   radiation, behaviors of materials, etc. etc.



   I invoked a sampling of these ideas in our consideration

   of risk for "loose items in cockpit" causing  near

   catastrophic events and a consideration of likelihood

   that a slide switch is more resistant to vibration than

   a toggle switch.



   A great deal of what passes for considered decision

   making is based on conclusions unsupported by the simple-ideas

   in physics. Much of what I did during my last years

   at Beech was to discover the constellation of operating

   simple-ideas responsible for failure to perform . . .

   troubleshooting down to the lowest common denominator.



   A solid grounding in physics is the cornerstone

   of virtually every other discipline . . . the whole

   universe and every system within runs on simpe Support Your Lists This Month get="_blank" href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.comwww.mypilotstList Contribution Web -==========================

 

 

  

 [quote][b]

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:59 pm Post subject: Speaking of physics . . .

Someone, I know not who, once said there are two kinds of airplanes, perfect airplanes and those that fly. I once saw a Long EZ fuselage on which the builder had spent 16 years addressing every little whim he'd ever had about the perfect Long EZ. He died without ever seeing it take to the air. When I saw it, it was on its way to its third owner and still had no wings or canard. The step that deployed automatically with the canopy opening was pretty cool, though. 

Rick Girard

do not archive

On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Jeff Luckey <jluckey(at)pacbell.net (jluckey(at)pacbell.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,

Your cursory and simplified analysis of the dynamics of switch vibration neither has sufficient data nor analysis to draw any conclusions. (I don't think you intended it to) Therefore it neither confirms nor refutes the suggestion that sliders are used because they handle vibration better in RC applications.

Let's talk about "..loose items ..":

I know you are not saying that the idea of "..loose items in the cockpit.." is impossible. In other words, I believe we agree that it is possible for foreign objects to get stuck in bad places.  However, you seem to be rather dismissive of the ideas I have put forward.   The crux of your argument seems to be based on the likelihood of a particular bad event.

Therein lies the problem - how to derive the  likelihood. I suppose one could  scour NTSB accident records to search for incidents of bad  thing X happening.  (But that requires a larger  amount of effort than most of us are willing or able to put forth. There are other considerations in doing research of this nature - suffice it to say it is not a trivial task)

Therefore, in the absence of a probability for an event that is perhaps unlikely but not impossible, I offer the following idea:             

If there is a simple, easy, & cheap prophylactic action that can be taken to prevent something bad, even if the bad thing is statistically remote (or the statistics are unknown), then why not take that action?

The "why not" question is important because even seemingly benign solutions have pros & cons and we certainly don't want the cure to be worse than the disease.  I ask that "why not..." question a lot and lately have been getting less than satisfying answers.

-Jeff

      From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>

  To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 10:12 AM 

 Subject: Re: Speaking of physics . . .

 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>

At 05:26 PM 12/12/2013, you wrote:

 > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com (uuccio(at)gmail.com)>

 	  Quote: 	

 Hi Bob

 Any particular one which is relevant to aero electrics? There are 567 hits for Walter Lewin lectures on the site...

 > Sacha

   ALL are relevant.

   EVERY discipline reduced to the most fundamental

   components will invariably illustrate principals

   of motion, force, friction, dissipation of energy,

   radiation, behaviors of materials, etc. etc.

   I invoked a sampling of these ideas in our consideration

   of risk for "loose items in cockpit" causing  near

   catastrophic events and a consideration of likelihood

   that a slide switch is more resistant to vibration than

   a toggle switch.

   A great deal of what passes for considered decision

   making is based on conclusions unsupported by the simple-ideas

    in physics. Much of what I did during my last years

   at Beech was to discover the constellation of operating

   simple-ideas responsible for failure to perform . . .

   troubleshooting down to the lowest common denominator.

   A solid grounding in physics is the cornerstone

   of virtually every other discipline . . . the whole

   universe and every system within runs on simpe Support Your Lists This Month get="_blank" href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.comwww.mypilotstList Contribution Web -==========================

  	  Quote: 	

_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com

ank">www.mrrace.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

jan(at)CLAVER.DEMON.CO.UK
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:18 am Post subject: Speaking of physics . . .

Rick,  

Very interesting analysis .. one point to consider .. You could also say that you have two sorts of ‘builder/pilots’ …  

Ones than like to build more than to fly …  

And the ones that like to fly more than they build …  

After all … we all look for pleasure in many ways ….  J  

Jan  

Do not archive        

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard

 Sent: 14 December 2013 00:58

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Speaking of physics . . .  

Someone, I know not who, once said there are two kinds of airplanes, perfect airplanes and those that fly. I once saw a Long EZ fuselage on which the builder had spent 16 years addressing every little whim he'd ever had about the perfect Long EZ. He died without ever seeing it take to the air. When I saw it, it was on its way to its third owner and still had no wings or canard. The step that deployed automatically with the canopy opening was pretty cool, though.    

Rick Girard  

do not archive  

On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Jeff Luckey <jluckey(at)pacbell.net (jluckey(at)pacbell.net)> wrote:      

Bob,

 Your cursory and simplified analysis of the dynamics of switch vibration neither has sufficient data nor analysis to draw any conclusions. (I don't think you intended it to) Therefore it neither confirms nor refutes the suggestion that sliders are used because they handle vibration better in RC applications.

 Let's talk about "..loose items ..":

 I know you are not saying that the idea of "..loose items in the cockpit.." is impossible. In other words, I believe we agree that it is possible for foreign objects to get stuck in bad places.  However, you seem to be rather dismissive of the ideas I have put forward.   The crux of your argument seems to be based on the likelihood of a particular bad event.

 Therein lies the problem - how to derive the likelihood. I suppose one could scour NTSB accident records to search for incidents of bad thing X happening.  (But that requires a larger amount of effort than most of us are willing or able to put forth. There are other considerations in doing research of this nature - suffice it to say it is not a trivial task)

 Therefore, in the absence of a probability for an event that is perhaps unlikely but not impossible, I offer the following idea:             

 If there is a simple, easy, & cheap prophylactic action that can be taken to prevent something bad, even if the bad thing is statistically remote (or the statistics are unknown), then why not take that action?

 The "why not" question is important because even seemingly benign solutions have pros & cons and we certainly don't want the cure to be worse than the disease.  I ask that "why not..." question a lot and lately have been getting less than satisfying answers.

 -Jeff

From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 10:12 AM      

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Speaking of physics . . .  

 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>

 At 05:26 PM 12/12/2013, you wrote:

 > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com (uuccio(at)gmail.com)>

 > 

 > Hi Bob

 > Any particular one which is relevant to aero electrics? There are 567 hits for Walter Lewin lectures on the site...

 > Sacha

   ALL are relevant.

   EVERY discipline reduced to the most fundamental

   components will invariably illustrate principals

   of motion, force, friction, dissipation of energy,

   radiation, behaviors of materials, etc. etc.

   I invoked a sampling of these ideas in our consideration

   of risk for "loose items in cockpit" causing near

   catastrophic events and a consideration of likelihood

   that a slide switch is more resistant to vibration than

   a toggle switch.

   A great deal of what passes for considered decision

   making is based on conclusions unsupported by the simple-ideas

   in physics. Much of what I did during my last years

   at Beech was to discover the constellation of operating

   simple-ideas responsible for failure to perform . . .

   troubleshooting down to the lowest common denominator.

   A solid grounding in physics is the cornerstone

   of virtually every other discipline . . . the whole  

  universe and every system within runs on simpe Support Your Lists This Month get="_blank" href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.comwww.mypilotstList Contribution Web -==========================

     	  Quote: 	
		    _blank">www.aeroelectric.com.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com="_blank">www.mypilotstore.comank">www.mrrace.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributionist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-Listtp://forums.matronics.com 	

--     

Zulu Delta  

Mk IIIC  

Thanks, Homer GBYM  

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx  

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      [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:46 pm Post subject: Speaking of physics . . .

At 06:17 PM 12/13/2013, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,



Your cursory and simplified analysis of the dynamics of switch 

vibration neither has sufficient data nor analysis to draw any 

conclusions. (I don't think you intended it to) Therefore it neither 

confirms nor refutes the suggestion that sliders are used because 

they handle vibration better in RC applications.


	


   Okay, what is the counter-argument for

   the effects of vibration in the system of levers

   and masses? What are the forcing functions that

   would separate a pair of toggle switch contacts

   undergoing vibration?



   If I am in error, nobody is more interested in

   knowing than me . . . Prof Lewin once offered the

   idea that bad teaching is a form of criminal behavior.

   It's a matter of personal satisfaction and moral

   imperative that a teacher strive for the best.

 	  Quote: 	
		  Let's talk about "..loose items ..":



I know you are not saying that the idea of "..loose items in the 

cockpit.." is impossible. In other words, I believe we agree that it 

is possible for foreign objects to get stuck in bad 

places.  However, you seem to be rather dismissive of the ideas I 

have put forward.   The crux of your argument seems to be based on 

the likelihood of a particular bad event.


	


   Not at all. The outcome of damage to multiple

   wires by burning due to electrical fault was

   founded on the notion that some loose, conductive

   item could become lodged between source and

   ground with conductivity that would burn

   a bus feeder.  All the metal pens I've seen

   were light, thin walled and poor conductors.



   Walking up to a bus bar with malicious intent

   armed with a metallic writing instrument is like

   bringing a cork gun to a gunfight. Yes, there's

   going to be sparks, smoke, heat and probably burned

   fingers with little or no damage to the bus

   or its feeder.



   The fact that such feeders tend to "eat holes"

   in their antagonists with little or no risk to

   the feeder or functions that it energizes is the

   foundation for policies articulated in the FARS

   and decades-old industry practice for over a

   quarter million light aircraft produced in this

   country alone.

 	  Quote: 	
		  Therein lies the problem - how to derive the likelihood. I suppose 

one could scour NTSB accident records to search for incidents of bad 

thing X happening.  (But that requires a larger amount of effort 

than most of us are willing or able to put forth. There are other 

considerations in doing research of this nature - suffice it to say 

it is not a trivial task)


	


   . . . and based on my experience, analysis and observations

   I'll suggest that you will not find such an event in

   the NTSB records . . .



   I have oft repeated the observation that only an

   exceedingly small number of accidents have electrical

   systems malfunctions as proximate cause . . . and

   of those cases, another small fraction are based

   on failure to perform to design goals. When electrics

   fail to perform, it nearly always finds foundation in human

   errors of installation or maintenance.

 	  Quote: 	
		  Therefore, in the absence of a probability for an event that is 

perhaps unlikely but not impossible, I offer the following idea:



If there is a simple, easy, & cheap prophylactic action that can be 

taken to prevent something bad, even if the bad thing is 

statistically remote (or the statistics are unknown), then why not 

take that action?


	


   As you wish . . . but how far do you carry this

   line of reasoning?  Would it be a good idea to

   build a cage around the prop . . . a guard on a

   fuel selector valve to guard against accidentally

   kicking it? How about warning lights on the fuel

   filler caps to warn of poor sealing (had these

   critters siphon gas on an A36 . . . TWICE!)



 	  Quote: 	
		  The "why not" question is important because even seemingly benign 

solutions have pros & cons and we certainly don't want the cure to 

be worse than the disease.  I ask that "why not..." question a lot 

and lately have been getting less than satisfying answers.


	


   I sincerely strive for my answers to be founded

   in the simple-ideas of physics and practical

   limits for guarding against the unanticipated

   based on lessons learned.



   The first time I saw this image was probably 35

   years ago . . . and rather humorous at the time . .



http://healthyworker.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/osha_cowboy.jpg



   It's interesting to contemplate what the "Engineer/

   mechanic/pilot after FAA" would be decked out.

   Over 35+ years, the work product of those with

   profitable careers in worrying-on-our-behalf-for-

   the-greater-good have offered a constellation of mandates

   to address a host of 'why not?' . . . with little

   if any observable change in accident rates or causation

   for those accidents.



   If you find satisfaction in guarding the bus bars

   on your breaker panels or fusing the feeder, please

   do so. It would upset nobody that I'm aware of. Your

   airplane be fabricated to meet your design goals.



   I am sorry to have failed your expectations for receiving

   'satisfying answers'. All I can do is offer the best

   I know now to do founded on a knowledge-base built on

   my teachers, experiences, recipes for success . . .

   combined with observations on experiences of others.

   Bob . . .

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:21 pm Post subject: Speaking of physics . . .

[quote]                   



If there is a simple, easy, & cheap prophylactic action that can    be taken to prevent something bad, even if the bad thing is statistically    remote (or the statistics are unknown), then why not take that    action?



The "why not" question is important because even seemingly    benign solutions have pros & cons and we certainly don't want the cure to    be worse than the disease.  I ask that "why not..." question a lot and    lately have been getting less than satisfying    answers.



-Jeff

    

    	  Quote: 	
		       Sounds like you are not feeling very      Lucky!   ☺

      

     Roger

      

     Do not  archive

	
[b]

Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:04 pm Post subject: Speaking of physics . . .

OK...so a robot walks into a bar, hops on a stool, and turns to the guy next to him..."So whazz' happenen man?..."



And the guys goes into a long rant about his troubles w/ his self-centered sweetie...



The robot responds, "Man...I know just how you feel...I tried to have a relationship with a MacBook...just couldn't make it work...all I ever got was 'iThis', 'iThat', 'iThis', 'iThat'..."



do not archive

Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Speaking of physics . . .

For anyone who thought HS or college physics was incomprehensible, and apropos of this group, look at this page: http://amasci.com/wing/airgif2.html



For those who want to experience physics without math, Buy a few copies of "Conceptual Physics" by Paul Hewitt. It is great to start students off on the right track. Not too late for Xmas.



There's lots of great stuff on the Internet.



I write on subjects related to physics on "Perihelion Science Fiction". Perihelion Design is the name of my website. Yes, I named them both...but it's a long story. I should be driving rivets....

_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:49 am Post subject: Speaking of physics . . .

Fred,



Glad you put a “do not archive” on that one ;^)



Bob



On Dec 15, 2013, at 12:02 AM, Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> wrote:






OK...so a robot walks into a bar, hops on a stool, and turns to the guy next to him..."So whazz' happenen man?..."



And the guys goes into a long rant about his troubles w/ his self-centered sweetie...



The robot responds, "Man...I know just how you feel...I tried to have a relationship with a MacBook...just couldn't make it work...all I ever got was 'iThis', 'iThat', 'iThis', 'iThat'..."



do not archive

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:25 am Post subject: Speaking of physics . . .

At 09:25 AM 12/15/2013, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



For those who want to experience physics without math, Buy a few 

copies of "Conceptual Physics" by Paul Hewitt. It is great to start 

students off on the right track. Not too late for Xmas.


	


    Agreed. I've given away a number of these

    books. Highly recommended  ESPECIALLY

    for grandparents looking for interesting

    things to do with grandchildren not

    completely distracted/disoriented by

    the chaotic input of 'data' in their

    daily lives.



   Bob . . .

jluckey(at)pacbell.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:38 am Post subject: Speaking of physics . . .

while the grown-ups are talking, can the eight-year-olds go play in the other room ...

www.mypilotstore.com[/url]

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