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tc1917(at)bellsouth.net
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 Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:36 am Post subject: Keeping warm |
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Long ago when i was flying my delta wing i purchased a heli cold weather suit. Lots of zippers and stuff. Good enough for artic flying. Not bulky just really warm. I have outgrown it (got fatter) so if someone would be interested i would give them a good price. Just the ticket for open cockpit flying. Contact me off list. Itis army green and practically new. Fit me at 5'7" tall and around 175lbs. Ted cowan slingshot 912 zoom zoom
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 28, 2013, at 2:01 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server <kolb-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:
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Kolb-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 12/27/13: 7
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:50 PM - Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (lownslow)
2. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (Dennis Rowe)
3. 03:07 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (Larry Cottrell)
4. 03:23 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (kinne russ)
5. 05:07 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (John Hauck)
6. 07:47 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (Dennis Rowe)
7. 09:47 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (Larry Cottrell)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 12:50:03 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage
From: "lownslow" <mnmcouillard(at)yahoo.com>
mind if I jump in here with a question?
I'm curious about heater setups, since it came up in this thread. I have a Mk
III C with a Rotax 670 being installed and since I am in Colorado I wanted to
see if there is an effective way to pipe heat into the cockpit (it's fully enclosed)
without a lot of fuss and engineering. Would anyone that's done it share
your results and satisfaction with your setup? I'd appreciate it. I guess
from the few discussions I've had with other Kolb owners, I had ruled it out
as something that doesn't work well, so had resigned myself to wearing a warm
set of extreme sport coveralls and maybe not fly some days that are too cold but
would love to get educated from some of the others on this list who may have
enjoyed success in this realm. I'm a newbie here and have only had my Kolb
for 3 months. It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying
up in AK, he may also have some wisdom to share....
Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions!
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416248#416248
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 02:54:03 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage
From: Dennis Rowe <rowedenny(at)windstream.net>
Plumb a motorcycle radiator inside your cockpit with a 12 volt fan on it.
Dennis "Skid" Rowe
Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA
> On Dec 27, 2013, at 3:49 PM, "lownslow" <mnmcouillard(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> mind if I jump in here with a question?
>
> I'm curious about heater setups, since it came up in this thread. I have a Mk
III C with a Rotax 670 being installed and since I am in Colorado I wanted to
see if there is an effective way to pipe heat into the cockpit (it's fully enclosed)
without a lot of fuss and engineering. Would anyone that's done it share
your results and satisfaction with your setup? I'd appreciate it. I guess
from the few discussions I've had with other Kolb owners, I had ruled it out
as something that doesn't work well, so had resigned myself to wearing a warm
set of extreme sport coveralls and maybe not fly some days that are too cold
but would love to get educated from some of the others on this list who may have
enjoyed success in this realm. I'm a newbie here and have only had my Kolb
for 3 months. It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying
up in AK, he may also have some wisdom to share....
>
> Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416248#416248
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 03:07:18 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
I'm not sure how cold is too cold? I decided that rather than try to
winterize my engine, I would just fly it every once and a while. Moisture
is not one of our problems here. I have an "electric vest" (Chili vest is
the brand, but there are many new items on the market now that are designed
for motor cycle gear, that weren't available when I bought my vest. There
is everything from pants to gloves, and at not that bad a price. All of
which either run off your plane battery or regular batteries.)
Myself, I hate to be bundled up to where I can't move, so the vest works
great. I just wear the vest, plug it into a cigar lighter plug on the
plane, Wear a "wild rag" (Silk cowboy scarf), or a gaiter would do, a pair
of insulated bibs from Cabela's. I use a pair of neophreme bogs on my feet
and slip a rag wool stocking cap over my headset. I just finished an hour
and half flight checking out the Coyote populations and doing some touch
and goes in the pattern. I stayed quite warm except for my left wrist,
which had been in a draft where my enclosure is gaped.
My enclosure wraps around the pilot's seat but is open at the back. So
basically all it does is keep the wind off me. The outside temps were at 41
degrees when I landed.
When I had the air cooled two strokes on the plane I had fashioned a heater
that would pipe in the air from the engine. Quite frankly the Chilli vest
made all that work unnecessary. If I were to fly for a longer period of
time, the first thing that would get cold would be my feet, but I can stand
an hour and half with no discomfort.
I my opinion if you can keep the wind off you, dressing properly is a whole
lot easier than all the engineering you would have to do, and you would
still wear the same amount of clothes that I just described. You however
may disagree.
Larry
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 1:49 PM, lownslow <mnmcouillard(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> mind if I jump in here with a question?
>
> I'm curious about heater setups, since it came up in this thread. I have
> a Mk III C with a Rotax 670 being installed and since I am in Colorado I
> wanted to see if there is an effective way to pipe heat into the cockpit
> (it's fully enclosed) without a lot of fuss and engineering. Would anyone
> that's done it share your results and satisfaction with your setup? I'd
> appreciate it. I guess from the few discussions I've had with other Kolb
> owners, I had ruled it out as something that doesn't work well, so had
> resigned myself to wearing a warm set of extreme sport coveralls and maybe
> not fly some days that are too cold but would love to get educated from
> some of the others on this list who may have enjoyed success in this realm.
> I'm a newbie here and have only had my Kolb for 3 months. It's just now
> dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in AK, he may also
> have some wisdom to share....
>
> Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions!
>
> Mike
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416248#416248
>
>
--
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 03:23:36 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage
From: kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com>
I'm sure John H will tell you about his Chili vest! -- elec. heated vests, gloves,
sox, cushions etc are all great.
On Dec 27, 2013, at 3:49 PM, lownslow wrote:
>
> mind if I jump in here with a question?
>
> I'm curious about heater setups, since it came up in this thread. I have a Mk
III C with a Rotax 670 being installed and since I am in Colorado I wanted to
see if there is an effective way to pipe heat into the cockpit (it's fully enclosed)
without a lot of fuss and engineering. Would anyone that's done it share
your results and satisfaction with your setup? I'd appreciate it. I guess
from the few discussions I've had with other Kolb owners, I had ruled it out
as something that doesn't work well, so had resigned myself to wearing a warm
set of extreme sport coveralls and maybe not fly some days that are too cold
but would love to get educated from some of the others on this list who may have
enjoyed success in this realm. I'm a newbie here and have only had my Kolb
for 3 months. It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying
up in AK, he may also have some wisdom to share....
>
> Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416248#416248
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 05:07:55 PM PST US
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage
It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in AK,
he may also have some wisdom to share....
Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions!
Mike
Hi Mike/Kolbers:
I made 3.5 flights to Alaska. First flight was without heat of any kind
except what clothing I could put on my body to keep warm.
After the first flight I discovered an electric vest made in England for
motorcycle endurance riders called a Chili Vest. 12vdc power with a digital
electronic thermostat that worked excellent. Powered right off the aircraft
battery. Needed minimum clothing and was able to stay comfortable in the
cockpit at freezing temps.
Could have fabricated a hot water heater, but never liked the idea of
plumbing hot water into the cockpit.
Some Kolbers have fabricated hot air heaters from the air cooled Rotax.
They'll pop up here and give you some info I am sure.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 07:47:47 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage
From: Dennis Rowe <rowedenny(at)windstream.net>
I'm liking the clothing suggestions a lot better than my cockpit radiator idea,
like someone said, it's a crap pile of work to reengineer the cooling system
to that degree.
Dennis "Skid" Rowe
Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA
> On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:07 PM, "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in AK,
> he may also have some wisdom to share....
>
> Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Hi Mike/Kolbers:
>
> I made 3.5 flights to Alaska. First flight was without heat of any kind
> except what clothing I could put on my body to keep warm.
>
> After the first flight I discovered an electric vest made in England for
> motorcycle endurance riders called a Chili Vest. 12vdc power with a digital
> electronic thermostat that worked excellent. Powered right off the aircraft
> battery. Needed minimum clothing and was able to stay comfortable in the
> cockpit at freezing temps.
>
> Could have fabricated a hot water heater, but never liked the idea of
> plumbing hot water into the cockpit.
>
> Some Kolbers have fabricated hot air heaters from the air cooled Rotax.
> They'll pop up here and give you some info I am sure.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 09:47:36 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
As I mentioned earlier, when I had a two stroke on my Firestar, I built a
cowling that captured the heat from the engine after it had made its way
through the shroud. I used scat tubing to put it in the cockpit over my
head. I still froze my feet, I still had to wear a coat, and I lost about
4MPH by having the back of the wind screen covered.
The "bog" or "Muck" boots are about 3 MM of neophreme, and warm enough for
a couple of hours exposure without losing the ability to "feel" the rudder
petals. That is just with regular socks. The vest keeps my core temps up,
and if I keep my hands out of the slip stream, caused by my poor
engineering of my enclosure, I don't have any problem keeping warm long
enough to get all the flying that I want.
I do not consider 50 degrees to be cold enough to even hesitate when it
comes to flying. Today at 40 degrees I didn't even wear my insulated bib
overalls. As long as your core is warm, you will be able to enjoy your
flight.
Larry
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 8:47 PM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny(at)windstream.net>wrote:
>
> I'm liking the clothing suggestions a lot better than my cockpit radiator
> idea, like someone said, it's a crap pile of work to reengineer the cooling
> system to that degree.
>
> Dennis "Skid" Rowe
> Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA
>
>
>> On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:07 PM, "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in
> AK,
>> he may also have some wisdom to share....
>>
>> Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Mike/Kolbers:
>>
>> I made 3.5 flights to Alaska. First flight was without heat of any kind
>> except what clothing I could put on my body to keep warm.
>>
>> After the first flight I discovered an electric vest made in England for
>> motorcycle endurance riders called a Chili Vest. 12vdc power with a
> digital
>> electronic thermostat that worked excellent. Powered right off the
> aircraft
>> battery. Needed minimum clothing and was able to stay comfortable in the
>> cockpit at freezing temps.
>>
>> Could have fabricated a hot water heater, but never liked the idea of
>> plumbing hot water into the cockpit.
>>
>> Some Kolbers have fabricated hot air heaters from the air cooled Rotax.
>> They'll pop up here and give you some info I am sure.
>>
>> john h
>> mkIII
>> Titus, Alabama
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
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Thumper
Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Oakland TN.
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Keeping warm |
|
|
I used a small oil cooler with the SPAL fan that moves lots of air. Plenty of heat and simple to mount and only added 2# to the airplane. The small one 4x6 worked for me. Test here is weird but the 4x6 with fan. don't try those small computer fans, they doon't move near enough air unless you are extremely air tight cabin. This fan moves tons of air, that is the key. Just be sure to tap into the radiator hoses before the thermostat. If the 670 has built in Thermostat you could remove it and use the Thermo-Bob one.
http://www.circletracksupply.com/northern-hurricane-oil-or-transmission-cooler-with-fan.html
I have to throttle back the water flow to keep from being roasted out.
Dennis
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_________________
Dennis Long
Oakland TN
2000 Aeroprakt A20 Vista Cruiser, 2016 A22LS Aeroprakt
Previously Kolb Mark IIIC, 94 Firestar, 84 Ultrastar.
1200+hours since 1/1/2009 |
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lownslow
Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 15
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Keeping warm |
|
|
more, great ideas, thanks!
Dennis, thanks for taking the time to post and show your installation--looks like a solid, bulletproof design, simple and reliable, I bet.
this deserves consideration and thanks for the recommendation on the fan--as I think about it, it makes total sense that volume of air moved would be the difference between success and failure
thanks man!
Mike
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