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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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 Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:17 am Post subject: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
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Guys
Since we are right now discussing the new Garmin touchscreen, and also
Dynon's, I wonder if any of you has built, very recently, a comparison chart
between the biggest contenders on this market (Dynon, GRT, Garmin, AFS and
MGL) you could share with the group.
I would be very thankful if I could see a very recent comparison chart of
EFIS's for our Experimental birds.
Anybody?
Thanks
Carlos
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:32 am Post subject: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
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Things have changed a little since I made my decisions. Dynon bought AFS
and is operating them as an independent subsidiary for now, as far as I
know.
That may or may not give AFS long term stability. Grand Rapids has
always been the big unknown. I shied away because they didn't make all
their manuals available on web prior to purchase, and I didn't find
enough answers on their web site. I have no idea of their long term
stability.
The choice for me came down to whether the autopilot was built-in and
integrated vs a separate system. If separate is important to you, you
will pay several thousand extra for that independence. There are good
arguments either way. Beyond that, at the time Garmin was noticeably
more expensive, but has since lowered their price. Also consider price
of acquisition vs keeping data current for whatever number of years is
meaningful to you, and if you are not in US how that impacts
availability of data/charts and price. Dynon, AFS and Grand Rapids were
fairly close on features and price, outside the autopilot price.
(actually, at the time Dynon was behind the other two in features, but
has mostly caught up).
On 4/7/2014 7:25 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
| Quote: |
Guys
Since we are right now discussing the new Garmin touchscreen, and also
Dynon's, I wonder if any of you has built, very recently, a comparison chart
between the biggest contenders on this market (Dynon, GRT, Garmin, AFS and
MGL) you could share with the group.
I would be very thankful if I could see a very recent comparison chart of
EFIS's for our Experimental birds.
Anybody?
Thanks
Carlos
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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deej(at)deej.net
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
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On 4/7/2014 10:31 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
| Quote: | Grand Rapids has always been the big unknown. I shied away because
they didn't make all their manuals available on web prior to purchase,
and I didn't find enough answers on their web site.
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Kelly, when were you looking? About a year and a half ago I spend hours
pouring through the documentation on the GRT site before I purchased one
last summer. One issue is that there are often new features released in
the GRT software and it seems to take them awhile to update the online
documentation to match, but they are pretty good about sending out email
updates about how to use the new features and also posting the info to
their new forum site. Not quite the same thing, I know, but at least
the info is publicly available.
I am really impressed with the new "Mini" that they just released. Looks
like it will make an excellent backup EFIS unit.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:18 am Post subject: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
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Over two years ago. Glad they have fixed that.
On 4/7/2014 11:07 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:
| Quote: |
On 4/7/2014 10:31 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> Grand Rapids has always been the big unknown. I shied away because
> they didn't make all their manuals available on web prior to
> purchase, and I didn't find enough answers on their web site.
Kelly, when were you looking? About a year and a half ago I spend
hours pouring through the documentation on the GRT site before I
purchased one last summer. One issue is that there are often new
features released in the GRT software and it seems to take them awhile
to update the online documentation to match, but they are pretty good
about sending out email updates about how to use the new features and
also posting the info to their new forum site. Not quite the same
thing, I know, but at least the info is publicly available.
I am really impressed with the new "Mini" that they just released.
Looks like it will make an excellent backup EFIS unit.
-Dj
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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stein(at)steinair.com
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:08 am Post subject: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
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GRT has been getting much more caught up since they hired Ben and
Katie...but I've still been beating them up over not having voice warnings
on their engine monitor...AFS had it many years ago, Dynon 2nd, and finally
Garmin - they need to do that to remain competitive in my opinion.
The mini is also an attractive product - they just need to deliver them.
It's been awhile since I showed one in my booth a OSH last year! 
Cheers,
Stein
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
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Stein will jump in here soon and caution, that everyone likes what they bought best! So for full disclosure, I went with GRT and I am very happy!!
But, I agree, the GRT documentation is a bit fragmented. You have to read thru all the info all over their web site; software upgrades are on the software upgrade page, and take a while to make it into the manuals; some info that applies to the HX is found only in the HXr manuals, and vice versa. The "tekies" understand that the 'guts' are the same inside these boxes so it makes sense to look in both manuals, but not everyone appreciates that. So there is less "hand-holding" from GRT for those to whom a computer is an alien device.
They recently hired a tech writer to improve this area, and I think it is getting better.
As to autopilots: Compare apples to apples. IF you start with a 2 screen, 1 AirData computer EFIS system, you can:
1. Add EFIS company servos
2. Add EFIS company servos and an additional AirData computer
3. Add a stand-alone (TRIO or TT) autopilot
Option (1) is the least expensive, but offers no redundancy (if the airdata fails, so does the EFIS and the Autopilot). Option (2) and (3) offer about the same redundancy, with (3) offering insurance against a system wide software bug. Options (2) and (3) are pretty close in price. Option (3) costs more panel space.
Frankly, if you only fly VFR, it's hard to beat option (1). If you fly IFR, it's your call.
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Bob Turner
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
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Stein,
Although I usually agree with you, not this time. Between the flashing master caution light (which is really bright) and the the flashing red on the screen(s) (whether it's oil pressure, CHT, etc.) I don't see how anyone could ignore the engine warnings, and I do not want a voice yelling at me "oil pressure, oil pressure" if I boot up the EIS (which I do) prior to engine start.
OTOH, the one audio warning they do need is for angle of attack, since the most critical time (landing approach) is also when you are concentrating the most out the windscreen. The D-6 variable warning tone is perfect in this regard.
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stein(at)steinair.com
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:57 am Post subject: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
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I can buy that reasoning and also respect that position. There are times
when I dislike "lola" scolding me, but then there are other times when I'm
cruising along not looking at the panel where I find it a help. I find it
useful to at least be able to turn her/him on or off depending on how I feel
that day! Normally with the systems that have voice warnings, they don't
all start yelling at you when you first boot up the system though...
Cheers,
Stein
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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:15 pm Post subject: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
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..there are voice warnings? !!!
I need to get out more. I've been flying for 2.5 years and my panel is
at least 4 years old/behind so...
From an IFR backup perspective, the separate AP can be a very good
thing. It's easy to overlook but probably one of the most useful backup
tools and modes.
I've got 3 GRT HXs and the fact that their doc has been so far behind
had been a frustration but not sure it's really all that different than
the 'fully' doc'd Garmin G400/500 series. You can't really fly them
effectively until you've done a deep dive in Youtube for the many
tutorials on how to really exploit the features. Garmin certainly
didn't provide the support - maybe that's different with the newer
stuff. In GRT's case, never hesitate to call Carlos with a question.
He KNOWS the answer.
On the plus side, I've consistently found GRTs software updates rich in
new functions and yet rock solid and stable in operation despite the
warnings. That's a very good thing.
Putting together one's panel is an awful lot fun.
On 4/7/2014 3:56 PM, Stein Bruch wrote:
[quote]
I can buy that reasoning and also respect that position. There are times
when I dislike "lola" scolding me, but then there are other times when I'm
cruising along not looking at the panel where I find it a help. I find it
useful to at least be able to turn her/him on or off depending on how I feel
that day! Normally with the systems that have voice warnings, they don't
all start yelling at you when you first boot up the system though...
Cheers,
Stein
--
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