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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:20 am Post subject: TruTrak - Was: Re: Glass Panel Layout and |
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Good Morning Ed,
That is a possibility!
Thank you for bringing it to our attention. It IS the way of the future.
Jim has done wonderful things.
Have you ever talked to him about the FAA? As I am sure you are aware, he has often stated that he hopes to never deal with a FED again!
When he first developed the original version of the TruTrak, I naively asked him how it worked. His answer: ---- "GOOD!"
When I continued to press, he said he didn't care what made it work, all he cared about was that it provided a plus or minus five volts and that was what he needed to make his autopilot work.
True Genius!
I do not mean to infer that Jim does not really know how the accelerometers work, he was just emphasizing the point that I didn't really have to understand it to trust it.
Hopefully, his innovations will eventual drift over to certificated aircraft.
Brian mentioned the rate problems which are bothering the FAA. It is awfully hard to get them to accept anything new.
There is no doubt that if I were flying an experimental airplane, I would have one of Jim's autopilots hooked up as a full time aid in much the same manner as Mooney used some thirty years ago. It was on full time and you had to hold down a button to get rid of it.
That did not work as well as one might hope it would. I do believe further research is needed to see how best to interface the autopilot and the human pilot.
As electronic aids improve, the man/machine interface has to change.
Air Bus is trying to make it work. Most of the pilots flying that machine are happy with it, though I do know a few pilots who have bid off because they did not feel the pilot had adequate control or they did not care for the man/machine interface.
Boeing has taken a different tack, but they claim keeping the interface desired by the pilots has cost them one hundred and seventy pounds of payload. That is enough to carry one more passenger.
It may be that pilots who truly understand the workings of a computer can accept giving control of their lives to it while pilots who do NOT understand computers are hesitant to do so.
Since I am strictly a computer and electronics illiterate, I would probably add an ancient T&B "Just In Case!"
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 6/25/2006 11:38:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, bicyclop(at)pacbell.net writes:
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klehman(at)albedo.net
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:01 am Post subject: TruTrak - Was: Re: Glass Panel Layout and |
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Or it could be exactly the reverse!
But that's a different topic for a different place and it is largely a
software issue...
Ken
| Quote: | It may be that pilots who truly understand the workings of a computer
can accept giving control of their lives to it while pilots who do NOT
understand computers are hesitant to do so.
|
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alexpeterson(at)earthlink
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:41 am Post subject: TruTrak - Was: Re: Glass Panel Layout and |
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I'm hopping in to the middle of this, so apologies if I'm repeating old ground.
My thoughts on the human/airplane interface is that computers are better at watching people than the other way around. A computer doesn't mind watching a pilot for hours on end, and is ready in an instant to warn the pilot or take over. From my limited understanding, it seems that in modern airliners, the pilots are expected to watch the computer, but be ready in an instant should the need arise.
I would think that a truly innovative approach to avionics in light airplanes would be something similar to what, I understand, some military fighters have had for quite some time. That is, the autopilot takes over if a crash is imminent. It seems that having some solid state (yes, they are rate based) gyros being watched in conjunction with the gps terrain data base would not be that difficult (at least for experimentals).
We'd have to have some sort of "Press to Buzz" switch on the stick to override this function:^)
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 762 hours
Maple Grove, MN
| Quote: |
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 6:12 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: TruTrak - Was: Re: Glass Panel Layout and
SNIP
As electronic aids improve, the man/machine interface has to change.
Air Bus is trying to make it work. Most of the pilots flying that machine are happy with it, though I do know a few pilots who have bid off because they did not feel the pilot had adequate control or they did not care for the man/machine interface.
Boeing has taken a different tack, but they claim keeping the interface desired by the pilots has cost them one hundred and seventy pounds of payload. That is enough to carry one more passenger.
It may be that pilots who truly understand the workings of a computer can accept giving control of their lives to it while pilots who do NOT understand computers are hesitant to do so.
Since I am strictly a computer and electronics illiterate, I would probably add an ancient T&B "Just In Case!"
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
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rv8ch
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:13 am Post subject: TruTrak - Was: Re: Glass Panel Layout and |
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| Quote: | It may be that pilots who truly understand the workings of a computer
can accept giving control of their lives to it while pilots who do NOT
understand computers are hesitant to do so.
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Hi Bob,
I think I would modify this just a bit.
Pilots who *think* they understand computers will trust their
lives to them, and pilots who truly *do* understand computers
will not.
Of course, it's all about risk management. I've been working
with computer hardware and software since the 70s, both for
fun and food, and I've seen the full range of good and bad
programming and hardware design. There are computer systems
that I would trust more than the random human, but I would
never trust just any ol' computer system with my life.
As applied to aviation, computer systems can add a lot of
value, and increase safety. Some airplanes require computer
systems to fly. A pilot should never blindly *trust* these
systems. They should spend time understanding them, learning
about their strengths and weaknesses, and learning how to
handle their failure modes.
This is no different from using mechanical instruments in
the cockpit. When we are trained to use gyros, we are taught
how to deal with the case where they fail. Computers fail
too, people need to be taught how they may fail, how to
recognize the failure, and what to do about it. They
should not be simply told that they can't fail, and that
they should blindly trust them.
| Quote: | Since I am strictly a computer and electronics illiterate, I would
probably add an ancient T&B "Just In Case!"
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Wise move. Several systems using different technologies from
different suppliers will give you the best chance of surviving
a failure. We hear about this sound philosophy on this list
all the time. Ensure that the failure of any one system will
not cause a forced landing - or worse. Where you do have
single systems (engine, for example) be extra diligent about
maintenance.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
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_________________
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/ |
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alexpeterson(at)earthlink
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: TruTrak - Was: Re: Glass Panel Layout and |
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| Quote: | Pilots who *think* they understand computers will trust their
lives to them, and pilots who truly *do* understand computers
will not.
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Except for those pilots driving cars less than about twenty years old to the
airport, and who may pull out in front of another car, trusting that the
car's computer will keep shoving gas and spark in!
do not archive!
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 762 hours
Maple Grove, MN
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