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N819PR Nose Gear Failure
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:47 am Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

Yesterday,Â after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.

  Â 

The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in aviation". 

  Â 

Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to part the airplane out.

  Â 

Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.

Â

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Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:13 am Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

Galin,

  

 I am sorry to hear about this.  I know how close you were getting to your around the world trip and hope that this is just a minor setback.  

  

 From the photos it looks like the damage should be isolated to cowling and engine.  The engine will be the big hit since the engine was running and the resulting prop strike will probably require a full disassembly inspection.  

  

 Keep us informed on your progress and anything we can do to help.

  

 Bob Reed

  

 

    

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com> 

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:46 PM

Subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure



 

   Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.

  

 The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in aviation". 

  

 Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to part the airplane out.

  

 Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.

  

 

 [quote][b]

fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:11 pm Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

So sorry to hear this Galin. Â It doesn't look bad enough to part-out but I know how insurance companies are.



Al Rosa



 On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] Yesterday,Â after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.

   Â 

The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in aviation". 

   Â 

Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to part the airplane out.

   Â 

Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.

Â 





 [b]

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:44 pm Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

With it beingÂ insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out,Â a GREAT plug-n-play instrument panelÂ for a TR-4 will be available real soon.

  Â 





On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  [quote]So sorry to hear this Galin. Â It doesn't look bad enough to part-out but I know how insurance companies are.  



Al Rosa



 On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     Yesterday,Â after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.

     Â 

The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in aviation". 

     Â 

Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to part the airplane out.

     Â 

Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.

Â 





 



et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




[b]

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:47 pm Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

It will require a complete tear down inspection and depending on what they find might even need a new engine. The propeller / carb took the brunt of the severeÂ impact so there has to be internal damage to the engine in addition to whatever external damage we see.

  Â 





On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:

  [quote]  Galin,

 Â 

 I am sorry to hear about this.Â  I know how close you were getting to your around the world trip and hope that this is just a minor setback.Â  

 Â 

 From the photos it looks like the damage should be isolated to cowling and engine.Â  The engine will be the big hit since the engine was running and the resulting prop strike will probably require a full disassemblyÂ inspection.Â  

   Â 

 Keep us informed on your progress and anything we can do to help.

 Â 

 Bob Reed

 Â 

 



    

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>

  To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> 

  Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:46 PM

Subject: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure



 

   Yesterday,Â after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.

   Â 

 The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in aviation". 

   Â 

 Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to part the airplane out.

   Â 

 Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.

 Â 

 





  	  Quote: 	
		  



et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

jconners(at)dot.state.nv.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:47 pm Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

The damage looks minimalâ€¦tear down inspection being the most costly repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)â€¦then a new and improved new nose gearâ€¦hope the aircraft returns to the air soon

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-play instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon.

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com<mailto:fredorosa(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

So sorry to hear this Galin.  It doesn't look bad enough to part-out but I know how insurance companies are.

Al Rosa

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com<mailto:galinhdz(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.

The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in aviation".

Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to part the airplane out.

Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.

et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:53 pm Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

Jerry; Do youÂ know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? One rated for about 150,000lbs? 

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L <jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us (jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us)> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		          

The damage looks minimalâ€¦tear down inspection being the most costly repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)â€¦then a new and improved new nose gearâ€¦hope  the aircraft returns to the air soon 

Â   

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

 Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure 

 

Â    

With it beingÂ insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out,Â a GREAT plug-n-play instrument panelÂ for a TR-4 will be available real soon.   

  

Â  

  

 

 

 

 

Â   

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:  

So sorry to hear this Galin. Â It doesn't look bad enough to part-out but I know how insurance companies are.  

Â  

  

Al Rosa 

 

 

   

Â   

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 

  

Yesterday,Â after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday  Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180  degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. 

  

Â  

  

The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said,  "Murphy is alive and well in aviation".  

  

Â  

  

Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to part the airplane out.   

  

Â  

  

Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway. 

  

Â  

  

 

 

 



 

Â  

  	  Quote: 	
		  Â Â et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributionÂ  	
 

 

 

 

Â  

  	  Quote: 	
		  Â Â  	
 ==============[/b] 	
 IS-List Email Forum -[/b][/quote] [/u][/b][/quote] u>[/u][/b][/quote] >[/b][/quote] tor?KIS-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List[/b][/quote] ==============[/b][/quote] Â Â Â Â  - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -[/b][/quote] u>[/u][/b][/quote] rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com[/b][/quote] ==============[/b][/quote] Â Â  - List Contribution Web Site -[/b][/quote] /pre> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.[/b][/quote] bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution[/b][/quote] ==============[/b]Â [/quote] 



 



This communication, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copying of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the original message.   Â Â ÂÂÂ Â 

  [b]

jconners(at)dot.state.nv.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:57 pm Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner that Lyle has done in the pastâ€¦no short cuts in the construction and using Paul Lamarâ€™s worst case math to determine the loads on impact.

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? One rated for about 150,000lbs? 

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L <jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us<mailto:jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us>> wrote:

The damage looks minimalâ€¦tear down inspection being the most costly repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)â€¦then a new and improved new nose gearâ€¦hope the aircraft returns to the air soon

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com<mailto:kis-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-play instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon.

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com<mailto:fredorosa(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

So sorry to hear this Galin.  It doesn't look bad enough to part-out but I know how insurance companies are.

Al Rosa

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com<mailto:galinhdz(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.

The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in aviation".

Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to part the airplane out.

Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.

et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com>

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

==============

IS-List Email Forum -

u>

 	  Quote: 	

tor?KIS-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

==============

     - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

u>

rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

==============

   - List Contribution Web Site -

/pre>                     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

==============

________________________________

This communication, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copying of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the original message.

  ÂÂ

fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:38 pm Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

I'm in need of a cowling even if it's a little banged up.



Al



On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]With it beingÂ insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out,Â a GREAT plug-n-play instrument panelÂ for a TR-4 will be available real soon.

   Â 





On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		  So sorry to hear this Galin. Â It doesn't look bad enough to part-out but I know how insurance companies are.   



Al Rosa



 On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		      Yesterday,Â after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.

      Â 

The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in aviation". 

      Â 

Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to part the airplane out.

      Â 

Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.

Â 





 



et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	








et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:28 pm Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it wasÂ electrical or electronic THAT I can do. 

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L <jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us (jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us)> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		          

I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner that Lyle has done in the pastâ€¦no short cuts in the construction and using Paul Lamarâ€™s worst  case math to determine the loads on impact. 

Â   

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

 Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure



 

 

Â   

Jerry; Do youÂ know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? One rated for about 150,000lbs?  

 

 

Â   

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L <jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us (jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us)> wrote: 

  

The damage looks minimalâ€¦tear down inspection being the most costly repair (with resulting needed  replacement parts)â€¦then a new and improved new nose gearâ€¦hope the aircraft returns to the air soon 

Â   

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

 Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure 

  

Â    

With it beingÂ insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out,Â a GREAT plug-n-play instrument panelÂ for a TR-4 will be available  real soon. 

  

Â  

  

 

 

 

  

Â    

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:  

So sorry to hear this Galin. Â It doesn't look bad enough to part-out but I know how insurance companies are.  

Â  

  

Al Rosa 

 

 

    

Â    

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 

    

Yesterday,Â after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for  me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly  rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. 

  

Â  

  

The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened  on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in aviation".  

  

Â  

  

Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make  a decision to repair or to part the airplane out. 

  

Â  

  

Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway. 

  

Â  

  

 

 

 

 

 

Â  

  	  Quote: 	
		  Â Â et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributionÂ  	
 

 

 

 

Â  

 

  	  Quote: 	
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============== 

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/pre> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin. 

bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 

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		  Â  	
 

 

 

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  [b]

jconners(at)dot.state.nv.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:32 pm Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

Lyle and Lamar probably have that solved for youâ€¦I recommend that you call them and see what is available.

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 3:28 PM

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it was electrical or electronic THAT I can do. 

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L <jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us<mailto:jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us>> wrote:

I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner that Lyle has done in the pastâ€¦no short cuts in the construction and using Paul Lamarâ€™s worst case math to determine the loads on impact.

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com<mailto:kis-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? One rated for about 150,000lbs? 

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L <jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us<mailto:jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us>> wrote:

The damage looks minimalâ€¦tear down inspection being the most costly repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)â€¦then a new and improved new nose gearâ€¦hope the aircraft returns to the air soon

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com<mailto:kis-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-play instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon.

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com<mailto:fredorosa(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

So sorry to hear this Galin.  It doesn't look bad enough to part-out but I know how insurance companies are.

Al Rosa

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com<mailto:galinhdz(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.

The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in aviation".

Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to part the airplane out.

Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.

et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com>

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

==============

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u>

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tor?KIS-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

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u>

rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

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bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:39 pm Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans will sell them...  Or a taildragger conversion....

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s800/rv-10.jpg

Scott



On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it was electrical or electronic THAT I can do. 

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L <jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us (jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us)> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		          

I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner that Lyle has done in the pastâ€¦no short cuts in the construction and using Paul Lamarâ€™s worst  case math to determine the loads on impact. 

   

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

 Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure



 



 

   

Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? One rated for about 150,000lbs?  

 

 

   

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L <jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us (jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us)> wrote: 

  

The damage looks minimalâ€¦tear down inspection being the most costly repair (with resulting needed  replacement parts)â€¦then a new and improved new nose gearâ€¦hope the aircraft returns to the air soon 

   

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

 Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure 

  

    

With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-play instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available  real soon. 

  

  

  

 

 

 

  

    

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:  

So sorry to hear this Galin.  It doesn't look bad enough to part-out but I know how insurance companies are.  

  

  

Al Rosa 

 

 

    

    

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 

    

Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for  me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly  rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. 

  

  

  

The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened  on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in aviation".  

  

  

  

Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make  a decision to repair or to part the airplane out. 

  

  

  

Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway. 

  

  

  

 

 

 

 

 

  

  	  Quote: 	
		    et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 	
 

 

 

 

  

 

  	  Quote: 	
		    	
 

============== 

IS-List Email Forum - 

u> 

 	  Quote: 	
		    

tor?KIS-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List 
	


============== 

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u> 

rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com 

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bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 

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0 ============== IS-List Email Forum -  u> > tor?KIS-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ==============      - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - u> rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ==============    - List Contribution Web Site - /pre>                     -Matt Dralle, List Admin. bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==============  	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 

 



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2

[b]

Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:15 am Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

Galin,



I know  how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2)

just after i completed her .  It was a very bad  nights sleep for me , and

even worse after the insurance man  turned up , since it doesn't take much

for the insurance company to  consider a right off , but i was not accepting

that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plane

back . in the end  it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop,  a new

nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of  glass fibre and paint and she has been flying

great  for the last 11 years. The  engine strip down   showed no  internal

damage and was completed for just  3500 pounds ( 5.5K$).  it took me 6 months

to get back in the air but i  ended up about 6 K pounds in profit .  i would

be surprised if there was any  damage to the  firewall from a  slow taxi nose

gear failure.

The good  thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the

wings off , rent a trailer and get her home  and into the  workshop , pour

yourself a stiff drink and  make a list of what is required to get back in

the air

   Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe  2K for parts).

   New Prop  and spinner (8K)

   New Nose gear  (1K)

   Bit of paint ( 1K )

   Repairs to the  cowling    (1K)

   Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max



Seriously consider making a deal   with the insurance to get back the  plane

if they tell you it's scrap .  even if you cant do the work yourself there

are plenty of people out there with the skill who can.



Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts  ?  and does anyone want up

update/ correct  my estimates above  .



Keith



From:	Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com>

To:	"kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>,

Date:	07/23/2014 06:41 AM

Subject:	Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

Sent by:	owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com



The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans will

sell them...  Or a taildragger conversion....



http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s800/rv-10.jpg



Scott



On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:



      I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it was

      electrical or electronic THAT I can do. 

      On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L <

      jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us> wrote:

        I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner that

        Lyle has done in the pastâ€¦no short cuts in the construction and using

        Paul Lamarâ€™s worst case math to determine the loads on impact.



        From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:

        owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

        Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM



        To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

        Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure



        Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? One

        rated for about 150,000lbs? 



        On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L <

        jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us> wrote:

        The damage looks minimalâ€¦tear down inspection being the most costly

        repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)â€¦then a new and

        improved new nose gearâ€¦hope the aircraft returns to the air soon



        From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:

        owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

        Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM

        To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

        Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure



        With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more

        than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-play

        instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon.



        



        On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com>

        wrote:

        So sorry to hear this Galin.  It doesn't look bad enough to part-out

        but I know how insurance companies are.



        Al Rosa



        On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

        wrote:

        Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed

        just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were

        super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical

        engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary

        check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When

        I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then

        failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left.

        Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold

        the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.



        The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would

        have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I

        taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so

        now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in

        aviation".



        Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than

        the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are

        going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to

        part the airplane out.



        Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.



        



        et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

        tp://forums.matronics.com

        _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution





        ==============

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        u>

        >

        tor?KIS-List" target="_blank">

        http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

        ==============

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        u>

        rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

        ==============

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        /pre>                     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

        bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

        ==============



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      ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:46 am Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

THANKS for the info. I am meeting with a mechanic today for his opinion. I have decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involved) and have an impartial person help me with the decision. At least the airplane is in my hangar already so there is no need to move it.

  Â 

I don't think it will be written off as a total loss but lets see what happens. I like the idea of maybe using the RV-10 nose gear but am afraid itÂ might be too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more pronounced.

  

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM,  <Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int)> wrote:

[quote]  --> KIS-List message posted by: Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int)

 

 Galin,

 

 I know Â how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2)

 just after i completed her . Â It was a very bad Â nights sleep for me , and

 even worse after the insurance man Â turned up , since it doesn't take much

 for the insurance company to Â consider a right off , but i was not accepting

 that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plane

 back . in the end Â it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop, Â a new

 nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of Â glass fibre and paint and she has been flying

 great Â for the last 11 years. The Â engine strip down Â  showed no Â internal

 damage and was completed for just Â 3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). Â it took me 6 months

 to get back in the air but i Â ended up about 6 K pounds in profit . Â i would

 be surprised if there was any Â damage to the Â firewall from a Â slow taxi nose

 gear failure.

 The good Â thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the

 wings off , rent a trailer and get her home Â and into the Â workshop , pour

 yourself a stiff drink and Â make a list of what is required to get back in

 the air

 Â  Â Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe Â 2K for parts).

 Â  Â New Prop Â and spinner (8K)

 Â  Â New Nose gear Â (1K)

 Â  Â Bit of paint ( 1K )

 Â  Â Repairs to the Â cowling Â  Â (1K)

 Â  Â Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max

 

 Seriously consider making a deal Â  with the insurance to get back the Â plane

 if they tell you it's scrap . Â even if you cant do the work yourself there

 are plenty of people out there with the skill who can.

 

 Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts Â ? Â and does anyone want up

 update/ correct Â my estimates above Â .

 

 Keith

 

 

 

 From: Â  Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)>

 To: Â  Â  "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>,

 Date: Â  07/23/2014 06:41 AM

 Subject: Â  Â  Â  Â Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

 

Sent by: Â  Â  Â  Â owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)

 

 

 

 The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans will

 sell them... Â Or a taildragger conversion....

 

 http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s800/rv-10.jpg

 

 Scott

 

 On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 

 Â  Â  Â  I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it was

 Â  Â  Â  electrical or electronic THAT I can do. 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L <

 Â  Â  Â  jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us (jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us)> wrote:

 Â  Â  Â  Â  I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner that

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Lyle has done in the pastâ€¦no short cuts in the construction and using

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Paul Lamarâ€™s worst case math to determine the loads on impact.

 

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:

 Â  Â  Â  Â  owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

 

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? One

 Â  Â  Â  Â  rated for about 150,000lbs? 

 

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L <

 Â  Â  Â  Â  jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us (jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us)> wrote:

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  The damage looks minimalâ€¦tear down inspection being the most costly

 Â  Â  Â  Â  repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)â€¦then a new and

 Â  Â  Â  Â  improved new nose gearâ€¦hope the aircraft returns to the air soon

 

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:

 Â  Â  Â  Â  owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM

 Â  Â  Â  Â  To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

 

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more

 Â  Â  Â  Â  than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-play

 Â  Â  Â  Â  instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon.

 

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  

 

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)>

 Â  Â  Â  Â  wrote:

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  So sorry to hear this Galin. Â It doesn't look bad enough to part-out

 Â  Â  Â  Â  but I know how insurance companies are.

 

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Al Rosa

 

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>

 Â  Â  Â  Â  wrote:

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed

 Â  Â  Â  Â  just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were

 Â  Â  Â  Â  super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical

 Â  Â  Â  Â  engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary

 Â  Â  Â  Â  check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When

 Â  Â  Â  Â  I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then

 Â  Â  Â  Â  failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left.

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold

 Â  Â  Â  Â  the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.

 

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would

 Â  Â  Â  Â  have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I

 Â  Â  Â  Â  taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so

 Â  Â  Â  Â  now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in

 Â  Â  Â  Â  aviation".

 

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than

 Â  Â  Â  Â  the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are

 Â  Â  Â  Â  going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to

 Â  Â  Â  Â  part the airplane out.

 

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.

 

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

 Â  Â  Â  Â  tp://forums.matronics.com

 Â  Â  Â  Â  _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 Â  Â  Â  Â  confidential information and is intended only for the individual or

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[b]

mark_trickel

Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Posts: 101
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:23 am Post subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

Hello Galin,



Words cannot express how sorry I am to learn of your nose gear failure. I know you have invested a lot of time, effort, and funds into you airplane, and I would sure hate to see it end up in the total out column. As bad as you may fell at the present it does not appear to me to be a total loss. I am surprised that no excessive wear showed up in the gear linkage when you had it off the airplane during your broken exhaust incident. Denise F. from Texas, bought a new nose gear from Lyle a little over a year ago, the cost was $2800.00. You may want to consider having Lyle increase the bolt size on the linkage.



Mark T.

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:29 am Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

Hi Galin,

Good to hear the airplane is back in the hangar.   At least this happened close to home.

The RV-10 gear may not be any heavier.  The cruiser nosegear is nearly 40 lbs.   A grumman tiger gear may work too if you can find one.  The AL prop is pretty heavy.  You could save 15+ lbs off the nose by going to the whirlwind ground adjustable prop and be able to tweek the pitch for best performance.

I am sure everyone is very interested in seeing more detailed pictures when you are ready for that.  

Scott



On Jul 23, 2014, at 6:45 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]THANKS for the info. I am meeting with a mechanic today for his opinion. I have decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involved) and have an impartial person help me with the decision. At least the airplane is in my hangar already so there is no need to move it.

   

I don't think it will be written off as a total loss but lets see what happens. I like the idea of maybe using the RV-10 nose gear but am afraid it might be too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more pronounced.

  

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM,  <Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    --> KIS-List message posted by: Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int)

 

 Galin,

 

 I know  how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2)

 just after i completed her .  It was a very bad  nights sleep for me , and

 even worse after the insurance man  turned up , since it doesn't take much

 for the insurance company to  consider a right off , but i was not accepting

 that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plane

 back . in the end  it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop,  a new

 nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of  glass fibre and paint and she has been flying

 great  for the last 11 years. The  engine strip down   showed no  internal

 damage and was completed for just  3500 pounds ( 5.5K$).  it took me 6 months

 to get back in the air but i  ended up about 6 K pounds in profit .  i would

 be surprised if there was any  damage to the  firewall from a  slow taxi nose

 gear failure.

 The good  thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the

 wings off , rent a trailer and get her home  and into the  workshop , pour

 yourself a stiff drink and  make a list of what is required to get back in

 the air

    Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe  2K for parts).

    New Prop  and spinner (8K)

    New Nose gear  (1K)

    Bit of paint ( 1K )

    Repairs to the  cowling    (1K)

    Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max

 

 Seriously consider making a deal   with the insurance to get back the  plane

 if they tell you it's scrap .  even if you cant do the work yourself there

 are plenty of people out there with the skill who can.

 

 Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts  ?  and does anyone want up

 update/ correct  my estimates above  .

 

 Keith

 

 

 

 From:   Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)>

 To:     "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>,

 Date:   07/23/2014 06:41 AM

 Subject:        Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

 

Sent by:        owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)

 

 

 

 The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans will

 sell them...  Or a taildragger conversion....

 

 http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s800/rv-10.jpg

 

 Scott

 

 On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 

       I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it was

       electrical or electronic THAT I can do. 

 

 

       On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L <

       jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us (jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us)> wrote:

         I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner that

         Lyle has done in the pastâ€¦no short cuts in the construction and using

         Paul Lamarâ€™s worst case math to determine the loads on impact.

 

 

 

 

 

         From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:

         owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

         Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM

 

 

 

         To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

         Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

 

 

 

 

 

         Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? One

         rated for about 150,000lbs? 

 

 

 

 

 

         On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L <

         jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us (jconners(at)dot.state.nv.us)> wrote:

 

 

         The damage looks minimalâ€¦tear down inspection being the most costly

         repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)â€¦then a new and

         improved new nose gearâ€¦hope the aircraft returns to the air soon

 

 

 

 

 

         From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:

         owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez

         Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM

         To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

         Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

 

 

 

 

 

         With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more

         than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-play

         instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon.

 

 

 

 

 

         

 

 

 

 

 

         On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)>

         wrote:

 

 

         So sorry to hear this Galin.  It doesn't look bad enough to part-out

         but I know how insurance companies are.

 

 

 

 

 

         Al Rosa

 

 

 

 

 

         On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>

         wrote:

 

 

         Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed

         just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were

         super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical

         engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary

         check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When

         I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then

         failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left.

         Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold

         the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.

 

 

 

 

 

         The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would

         have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I

         taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so

         now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in

         aviation".

 

 

 

 

 

         Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than

         the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are

         going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to

         part the airplane out.

 

 

 

 

 

         Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.

 

 

 

 

 

         

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

         et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

         tp://forums.matronics.com

         _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

         ==============

 

 

         IS-List Email Forum -

 

 

         u>

 

 

         >

 

 

         tor?KIS-List" target="_blank">

         http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

 

 

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              - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

 

 

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         rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 

 

         ==============

 

 

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         /pre>                     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 

 

         bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 

 

         ==============

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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[b]

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:48 pm Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

Hello Galin,



I have seen quotes from under $2000 to about $4000 for a tear down and inspection on a certified IO-360 so while not cheap it is not too expensive.



I know I am about to sound like a broken record but the issue with the nose gear is the main gear placement.  As designed and as most are built the main gear is WAY too far back.  This places much more load on the nose gear and contributes to nose slam and Pilot induced oscillation.  Currently the TR-4 has about 33% of the weight on the nose gear empty.  At no time should it be over 25% (most forward CG) and typically should be about 10% at mid aft CG.  At far aft CG it should be in the single digits.  Actually if you load to absolute aft CG and push the tail to the ground it should almost or even stay there.



Everyone, move your main gear forward to save your nose gear, engine and prop.  This is an easy and cheap change and I know you will love it once you have done it.  And so will your nose gear.



Mark



--

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:47 am Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so the actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled, a new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass work done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole lot stronger than it looks.

  Â 

The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracketÂ broke letting the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little bigger to better withstand the landing loads.

  Â 

I will definitely look at moving theÂ main gear an inch or two further forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is to go with a CATTO composite prop, which isÂ lighter than the SENSENICHÂ aluminum prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well and I fly real IMC.

  

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

  [quote]--> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>

   

 Hello Galin,

 

 I have seen quotes from under $2000 to about $4000 for a tear down and inspection on a certified IO-360 so while not cheap it is not too expensive.

 

 I know I am about to sound like a broken record but the issue with the nose gear is the main gear placement. Â As designed and as most are built the main gear is WAY too far back. Â This places much more load on the nose gear and contributes to nose slam and Pilot induced oscillation. Â Currently the TR-4 has about 33% of the weight on the nose gear empty. Â At no time should it be over 25% (most forward CG) and typically should be about 10% at mid aft CG. Â At far aft CG it should be in the single digits. Â Actually if you load to absolute aft CG and push the tail to the ground it should almost or even stay there.

   

 Everyone, move your main gear forward to save your nose gear, engine and prop. Â This is an easy and cheap change and I know you will love it once you have done it. Â And so will your nose gear.

 

 Mark

 

 --

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:15 am Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

Moving the main gear forward is very simple.  You do not more the gear where it attaches to the fuselage you just angle it forward with a FLOX wedge.  On my TR1 I unbolted the main gear and dropped it down. Then I made two small wood blocks about 3/8" thick to use as spacers.  I placed these on the trailing edge of the main gear center section and test bolted the gear in place now angled forward due to the spacers.  Remove and adjust as needed.  When I was happy with the new wheel location I lowered the gear again, covered it with packing tape for a release, piled FLOX on the top of the gear and bolted it in place with the spacers holding the angle.  This took me about 3 hours total.



Some may be thinking that having the gear angled forward will put more stress on the attachment.  Actually the opposite is true.  On landing there are two main forces, the vertical load due to the rate of decent and the horizontal load due to the rapid spin up of the wheels. This horizontal load is the main stress on the attachment and is reduced due to the forward angle.



Mark



--

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:21 am Post subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure

I think this was already done on my airplane but I will check when we start working on it.

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

  [quote]--> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>

   

 

Moving the main gear forward is very simple. Â You do not more the gear where it attaches to the fuselage you just angle it forward with a FLOX wedge. Â On my TR1 I unbolted the main gear and dropped it down. Then I made two small wood blocks about 3/8" thick to use as spacers. Â I placed these on the trailing edge of the main gear center section and test bolted the gear in place now angled forward due to the spacers. Â Remove and adjust as needed. Â When I was happy with the new wheel location I lowered the gear again, covered it with packing tape for a release, piled FLOX on the top of the gear and bolted it in place with the spacers holding the angle. Â This took me about 3 hours total.

   

 Some may be thinking that having the gear angled forward will put more stress on the attachment. Â Actually the opposite is true. Â On landing there are two main forces, the vertical load due to the rate of decent and the horizontal load due to the rapid spin up of the wheels. This horizontal load is the main stress on the attachment and is reduced due to the forward angle.

   

 Mark

 

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