 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
|
 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:21 am Post subject: KIS TR-1 Flap Sectors |
 |
|
7/30/2014
Hello Tim, I got out to the airport yesterday and took a good look at my flap sectors and also took several pictures. My comments here:
1) You wrote: “Looks like I cut the new notch back as far as I could."
Yes, but before you cut the new notch for the flap handle locking cross pin you actually extended the slot itself further to the rear. Any one contemplating this modification has to take that into consideration.
2) I wrote: “Your flap sectors appear to have a different shape than mine.” and “My flap sectors do not have the sharp cornered forward projections with
the bottom scoop out that yours does.”
My misinterpretation of your photo. Those sharp projections are actually the bracket holding the flap sector to the wing spar box.
3) I wrote: “Also mine do not have the slope on the aft side of the forward notch like yours does.”
My error. My flap sectors also have that same slope and I have concluded that my flap sectors are identical to your original configuration.
4) You wrote: “On the ground I get the recommended 28 deg.”
My angular measurements yesterday showed that on the ground I am getting 25 degrees down flap. Also I measured the distance from the trailing edge of my flaps to the bottom surface of the wing to fuselage fairing as you did in the flaps down configuration and you are getting one inch more than that as was shown in your excellent photograph.
This has been a very beneficial exchange for me and I hope for others that may be considering this modification. I am much more motivated now to make this modification – we’ll have to wait to see if that additional motivation is enough to overcome my inertia.
Many thanks for your help on this Tim.
OC
===========================================
From: Tim Yoder
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 8:24 PM
Cc: 'TRICKEL MARK'
Subject: RE: Emailing: 033 (2)
Hi OC,
My answers are below your comments/questions below;
=======================================
From: Owen Baker [mailto:bakerocb(at)cox.net]
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:00 AM
Cc: TRICKEL MARK
Subject: Fw: Emailing: 033 (2)
7/28/2014
Hello Tim, Thanks for the pictures and the explanation. You wrote:
1) "Looks like I cut the new notch back as far as I could."
I have contemplated this kind of modification of my flap control sectors for
some time, but have been too lazy to pursue it. Some comments / questions:
a) Your flap sectors appear to have a different shape than mine. It would
appear that Tri-R made some modifications to those sectors in later kits. My
kit is number 116.
***These are from kit #49, I don't know what yours look like.
b) My flap sectors do not have the sharp cornered forward projections with
the bottom scoop out that yours does. Any ideas what the purpose of that is?
*** No
c) Also mine do not have the slope on the aft side of the forward notch like
yours does. Was that a local modification?
*** No, that is the way It came. I only added the last (left) notch.
I think the easy slope on the aft side of the forward notch just makes it
easier to move the handle to the first notch.?
d) I see that there is a split plastic tube guard over the bottom edge of
the slot. What is the purpose of that?
*** good observation, I forgot I did that. I was noticing that in
flight the roll pin wasn't moving smoothly, galling, due to pushing the
release button hard because of the flight load on the flaps. When the
plastic tubes wore out and it started again so I took a closer look and saw
that the roll pin slot was oriented down, you cannot see it in the photo but
it is, so I turned the roll pin horizontally and fix that problem.
2) ".... helps the pitch angle on approach."
By that do you mean that you can have a lower nose attitude angle for the
same indicated airspeed by use of that additional extension of the flaps? If
so that might just be the additional motivation that I need to make that
added notch modification.
*** Yes, The pitch angle noticeably increases when I go to the last
notch. On the ground I get the recommended 28 deg. After lifting the
trailing edge of the flaps in order to remove the slop in the system.
Right now I insist on keeping the far end of the runway in sight over the
nose during the approach and flare which gives me a pretty flat nose
attitude at touch down. Now with any speed less than 75 KIAS I would block
out that over the nose picture. I usually have my engine set at 1,300 RPM +
or - a bit during the approach once I am on glide slope and leave it set at
that RPM to control descent rate until touch down.
*** My procedure is much like yours with similar numbers, I almost
always have someone with me and my field elevation is 1400' also, I sit very
tall in the cockpit. And I doubt that I an as good a pilot as you so it is
hard to compare.
If I could still have that same over the nose picture at 70 KIAS I would
consider making that additional flap sector notch to be a worth while
modification.
*** I only did the mod because I wanted to get the book recommended
28 deg's. and I was glad I did it. I think it was Scott Stearns that
recommended trying to get mire than 28 deg. I would if I had the extra room.
I hope this helps, Tim
OC
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: KIS TR-1 Flap Sectors |
|
|
OC ,
I know that Ray Clegg ( UK ) made the same modification to the flap sector
in his KIS 2 place many years ago and he said it made some improvements for
his short field. He never submitted the modification to our LAA authority,
probably because they would require countless stress calculations . Ray sold
the KIS2 when he bought the KIS Cruiser, and it no longer flies , so we
cant ask for any feedback from the last owner .
Keith
From: "Owen Baker " <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
To: "KIS-LIST MATRONICS" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>, "YODER TIM"
<ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com>,
Date: 07/30/2014 02:23 PM
Subject: KIS TR-1 Flap Sectors
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com
7/30/2014
Hello Tim, I got out to the airport yesterday and took a good look at my flap
sectors and also took several pictures. My comments here:
1) You wrote: “Looks like I cut the new notch back as far as I could."
Yes, but before you cut the new notch for the flap handle locking cross pin
you actually extended the slot itself further to the rear. Any one
contemplating this modification has to take that into consideration.
2) I wrote: “Your flap sectors appear to have a different shape than mine.”
and “My flap sectors do not have the sharp cornered forward projections with
the bottom scoop out that yours does.”
My misinterpretation of your photo. Those sharp projections are actually the
bracket holding the flap sector to the wing spar box.
3) I wrote: “Also mine do not have the slope on the aft side of the forward
notch like yours does.”
My error. My flap sectors also have that same slope and I have concluded that
my flap sectors are identical to your original configuration.
4) You wrote: “On the ground I get the recommended 28 deg.”
My angular measurements yesterday showed that on the ground I am getting 25
degrees down flap. Also I measured the distance from the trailing edge of my
flaps to the bottom surface of the wing to fuselage fairing as you did in the
flaps down configuration and you are getting one inch more than that as was
shown in your excellent photograph.
This has been a very beneficial exchange for me and I hope for others that
may be considering this modification. I am much more motivated now to make
this modification – we’ll have to wait to see if that additional motivation
is enough to overcome my inertia.
Many thanks for your help on this Tim.
OC
===========================================
From: Tim Yoder
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 8:24 PM
Cc: 'TRICKEL MARK'
Subject: RE: Emailing: 033 (2)
Hi OC,
My answers are below your comments/questions below;
=======================================
From: Owen Baker [mailto:bakerocb(at)cox.net]
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:00 AM
Cc: TRICKEL MARK
Subject: Fw: Emailing: 033 (2)
7/28/2014
Hello Tim, Thanks for the pictures and the explanation. You wrote:
1) "Looks like I cut the new notch back as far as I could."
I have contemplated this kind of modification of my flap control sectors for
some time, but have been too lazy to pursue it. Some comments / questions:
a) Your flap sectors appear to have a different shape than mine. It would
appear that Tri-R made some modifications to those sectors in later kits. My
kit is number 116.
***These are from kit #49, I don't know what yours look like.
b) My flap sectors do not have the sharp cornered forward projections with
the bottom scoop out that yours does. Any ideas what the purpose of that is?
*** No
c) Also mine do not have the slope on the aft side of the forward notch like
yours does. Was that a local modification?
*** No, that is the way It came. I only added the last (left) notch.
I think the easy slope on the aft side of the forward notch just makes it
easier to move the handle to the first notch.?
d) I see that there is a split plastic tube guard over the bottom edge of
the slot. What is the purpose of that?
*** good observation, I forgot I did that. I was noticing that in
flight the roll pin wasn't moving smoothly, galling, due to pushing the
release button hard because of the flight load on the flaps. When the
plastic tubes wore out and it started again so I took a closer look and saw
that the roll pin slot was oriented down, you cannot see it in the photo but
it is, so I turned the roll pin horizontally and fix that problem.
2) ".... helps the pitch angle on approach."
By that do you mean that you can have a lower nose attitude angle for the
same indicated airspeed by use of that additional extension of the flaps? If
so that might just be the additional motivation that I need to make that
added notch modification.
*** Yes, The pitch angle noticeably increases when I go to the last
notch. On the ground I get the recommended 28 deg. After lifting the
trailing edge of the flaps in order to remove the slop in the system.
Right now I insist on keeping the far end of the runway in sight over the
nose during the approach and flare which gives me a pretty flat nose
attitude at touch down. Now with any speed less than 75 KIAS I would block
out that over the nose picture. I usually have my engine set at 1,300 RPM +
or - a bit during the approach once I am on glide slope and leave it set at
that RPM to control descent rate until touch down.
*** My procedure is much like yours with similar numbers, I almost
always have someone with me and my field elevation is 1400' also, I sit very
tall in the cockpit. And I doubt that I an as good a pilot as you so it is
hard to compare.
If I could still have that same over the nose picture at 70 KIAS I would
consider making that additional flap sector notch to be a worth while
modification.
*** I only did the mod because I wanted to get the book recommended
28 deg's. and I was glad I did it. I think it was Scott Stearns that
recommended trying to get mire than 28 deg. I would if I had the extra room.
I hope this helps, Tim
OC
This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject: KIS TR-1 Flap Sectors |
|
|
8/1/2014
Hello Tim, Your motivational words have yielded results. See the attached photo of my modified flap sectors with the additional fourth notch for increasing the amount of flaps down.
Plan now is to test fly it and if working properly have the hardware powder coated for final installation.
Thanks for your help.
OC
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
|
| Description: |
|
| Filesize: |
765.29 KB |
| Viewed: |
1904 Time(s) |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
