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Volkswagon Conversion

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arno7452(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: Volkswagon Conversion

Dear Listers,

 I am looking at Kitfox Classic IV 1200 project with VW  engine.  What think you about using VW engine for this plane?  I have  no experience and scant knowledge of this power plant.

 Many thanks,

 Ken

kirkhull(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: Volkswagon Conversion

I lot  of people like the VW engine.  I personally thought that there was not  enough power without extensive mods. I chose the  suberu con.  I have not heard of any problems and can recoment some people  to talk to in tha kansas city area.  The dawn patrol here has a bunch of  Newports with VW powed

 

[kirk hull] 

  

  

  -----Original  Message-----

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ken  Arnold

Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 9:12 PM

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Volkswagon  Conversion

  	  Quote: 	
		     Dear Listers,

   I am looking at Kitfox Classic IV 1200 project with VW    engine.  What think you about using VW engine for this plane?  I    have no experience and scant knowledge of this power plant.

   Many thanks,

   Ken

ofd725(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: Volkswagon Conversion

Ken,

  What size is the VW? I am installing a Great Plains 2276 with a 1:6/1 Re drive in my series 7. This engine is said to put out 100+ HP on take off and 80+ HP continuous cruise. At approx. 175# you can't match that HP/weight ratio with any other auto conversion engine. Plus there are no gear boxes to mess with and the parts and technical help is readily available. This is a very simple engine that looks to be nearly bullet proof. Sonex uses their own version of the VW in their planes and from what I hear the customers are very happy. I think it also depends on what you expect from your plane. This is just my humble opinion based on my research. Check the Great Plains website if you desire more info..

   

  Regards,

   

  Gary Olson



Ken Arnold <arno7452(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		          Dear Listers,

  I am looking at Kitfox Classic IV 1200 project with VW engine.  What think you about using VW engine for this plane?  I have no experience and scant knowledge of this power plant.

  Many thanks,

  Ken

	




  		Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Football ’06 - Go with the leader.  [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=33539/*http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com?ovchn=YAH&ovcpn=Integration&ovcrn=Mail+footer&ovrfd=YAH&ovtac=AD]Start your league today![/url]

roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: Volkswagon Conversion

Ken I'm waiting for AW inspection so no results other than static thrust 370 

lbs.  1915cc VW, 1.6:1 redrive, 72" Ivo.   Where Are you located?  Ron NB 

Ore

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Ken Arnold" <arno7452(at)bellsouth.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Volkswagon Conversion

Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 22:11:42 -0400



Dear Listers,

I am looking at Kitfox Classic IV 1200 project with VW engine.  What think 

you about using VW engine for this plane?  I have no experience and scant 

knowledge of this power plant.

Many thanks,

Ken


	


_________________________________________________________________

Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 

http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: Volkswagon Conversion

My 2 cents worth.  Before you spend a small fortune and what seems like a 

lifetime installing an engine in a Kitfox, spend time doing some riding.  

You can read all you want and all these engines are the answer to your 

prayers.  They are heavy, they claim all kinds of neat things. If you want 

to find out the engines that people don't like, then look in the for sale 

adds, they are all over the place.  Not too many Rotax powered Kitfoxes and 

almost all of them are powered with these.  My 2 cents worth.  Clint 1100 

hours on 912ULS and please do not make me compare my wife to my airplane, 

there different.  Clint

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com



Ken,

   What size is the VW? I am installing a Great Plains 2276 with a 1:6/1 Re 

drive in my series 7. This engine is said to put out 100+ HP on take off and 

80+ HP continuous cruise. At approx. 175# you can't match that HP/weight 

ratio with any other auto conversion engine. Plus there are no gear boxes to 

mess with and the parts and technical help is readily available. This is a 

very simple engine that looks to be nearly bullet proof. Sonex uses their 

own version of the VW in their planes and from what I hear the customers are 

very happy. I think it also depends on what you expect from your plane. This 

is just my humble opinion based on my research. Check the Great Plains 

website if you desire more info..



   Regards,



   Gary Olson



Ken Arnold <arno7452(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

           Dear Listers,

   I am looking at Kitfox Classic IV 1200 project with VW engine.  What 

think you about using VW engine for this plane?  I have no experience and 

scant knowledge of this power plant.

   Many thanks,

   Ken



---------------------------------

Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Football ’06 - Go with the leader. Start your league 

today!

kr2(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: Volkswagon Conversion

Hi Ken,I have a vw on my kitfox IV ...it is a type 1 2280 and develops 82hp,this engine was origanly built by Mosler and offered through Great planes,so far I am impressed with the power,I have my I.A. finishing up my new weight &balance, so I still have yet to log time on my bird,but the guy I bought it from had 30hrs on this engine since new and he was impressed with the power and fuel burn at 3.2g an hr.I will be happy to post all my results on the performance and specs I record during my test flights for all you guys who might be interested....anyways happy landings..............

                     Mark

 PS I hope to be up and flying some time next weekend..

  

 

  

 [quote] ---

av8rps(at)tznet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:33 am Post subject: Volkswagon Conversion

All,



I find the 370 lbs of static thrust very interesting.  That is the same 

number my buddy with his 100 hp 912s got when testing his sensinech prop 

setup on his airplane.  Assuming both of their testing information is 

accurate, that is a pretty impressive static thrust number for a VW.



I've generally been a naysayer of a VW on a STOL airplane, as without a 

redrive they just can't turn a big diameter prop efficiently (their high 

rpms cause supersonic tip speeds, and prop inefficiency).  But with a 

redrive, I think there is a strong possibility that a VW just might work on 

our planes?  So I am very interested in following Ron's performance 

information once he gets his redrive VW Fox in the air.



I agree with Clint's previous post stating that the 912 engines work very 

well in our aircraft, and if you want a sure bet, buy one of those (as I 

have).  But I really do believe the VW with a redrive stands a good chance 

to become a viable alternative that could become at least a less expensive 

secondary choice.  A few years back I saw a one-off Super Stol design 

powered by a VW (with redrive) do some astonishing takeoffs and landings at 

Oshkosh.  That pretty much proved to me the engine has potential on STOL 

airplanes like ours.  I'd been hoping someone would try one on an Avid or 

Kitfox one day.



The non-redrive VW's will work well on fast aircraft like the Sonex as they 

are utilizing shorter propellors so they don't get supersonic tip speeds 

rendering them inefficient. Commonly, fast aircraft use shorter props.  So 

they work well in that environment.  Unfortunately our aircraft operate more 

efficiently with longer props, so until now, VW's (without redrives) have 

provided only marginal performance.  Just like a 912 or 582 would if you 

removed the redrive.



So Ron, please do keep us updated on your flight testing.  It will be very 

interesting to follow.



Paul Seehafer

Central Wisconsin

912ul Model IV-1200 on Aerocet Amphibs

---

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:35 am Post subject: Volkswagon Conversion

My 2 cents again.  I don't know the exact book that the EAA put out a few months ago but it goes something like this.  A kitfox 582 owner was all excited about putting in a jabiru engine in his kit fox IV.  He wrote 3 or 4 articles about its installation. His last article was the comparasion of te 582 and the Jabiru 2200, the Jabiru was faster, and the 582 out climbed the 2200.  I have only flown in a 2200 and 0ne 3300. I found that both engines were very noisy electrictly and mechanically.  And I was using  noise cancelling headsets.  I suggest you spend some time before you make this HUGH investment in cost and time. There are a few disadantages in using a liquid cooled engine, they are a very tight and effficient.  It was no accident that they were put in P51 mustangs and other aircraft.   Take a close look at what Kitfoxe's are for sale and what engines they have.  Again my 3 cents worth.   Clint (also using an IVO Prop and couldn't be happier.  Never heard of one of those comming apart.

  

  

  

 

 

From: "Paul Seehafer"  

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com 

To:  

Subject: Re: Volkswagon Conversion 

Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 07:31:45 -0500 

 

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer"  

 

All, 

 

I find the 370 lbs of static thrust very interesting.  That is the same number my buddy with his 100 hp 912s got when testing his sensinech prop setup on his airplane.  Assuming both of their testing information is accurate, that is a pretty impressive static thrust number for a VW. 

 

I've generally been a naysayer of a VW on a STOL airplane, as without a redrive they just can't turn a big diameter prop efficiently (their high rpms cause supersonic tip speeds, and prop inefficiency).  But with a redrive, I think there is a strong possibility that a VW just might work on our planes?  So I am very interested in following Ron's performance information once he gets his redrive VW Fox in the air. 

 

I agree with Clint's previous post stating that the 912 engines work very well in our aircraft, and if you want a sure bet, buy one of those (as I have).  But I really do believe the VW with a redrive stands a good chance to become a viable alternative that could become at least a less expensive secondary choice.  A few years back I saw a one-off Super Stol design powered by a VW (with redrive) do some astonishing takeoffs and landings at Oshkosh.  That pretty much proved to me the engine has potential on STOL airplanes like ours.  I'd been hoping someone would try one on an Avid or Kitfox one day. 

 

The non-redrive VW's will work well on fast aircraft like the Sonex as they are utilizing shorter propellors so they don't get supersonic tip speeds rendering them inefficient. Commonly, fast aircraft use shorter props.  So they work well in that environment.  Unfortunately our aircraft operate more efficiently with longer props, so until now, VW's (without redrives) have provided only marginal performance.  Just like a 912 or 582 would if you removed the redrive. 

 

So Ron, please do keep us updated on your flight testing.  It will be very interesting to follow. 

 

Paul Seehafer 

Central Wisconsin 

912ul Model IV-1200 on Aerocet Amphibs 

 

 

---

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: Volkswagon Conversion

On Jun 26, 2006, at 8:33 PM, Clint Bazzill wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   the Jabiru was faster, and the 582 out climbed the 2200.


	


Yep, I went from 582 to 2200 and I can confirm that. Mind you, with a 

finer pitch prop, I would probably  climb better than the 582 but I 

would loose the edge at cruise speed. So, an in-flight variable pitch 

would be nice but, unfortunately, that's exactly the only think the 

Jabiru can't have because of its direct drive.



 	  Quote: 	
		    I found that both engines were very noisy electrictly and 

 mechanically.


	


.. say again! ... can't hear you, say again, please! 

Seriously, the Jabiru can have (mine has) electrical noise but I can 

live with it. Otherwise, mechanically, the Jabiru is very smooth 

running, especially compared to the 582. But ... mechanical noise ... 

from the engine or the prop? Isn't a two-bladed prop always more noisy 

than a three-bladed?



 	  Quote: 	
		    I suggest you spend some time before you make this HUGH investment in 

 cost and time.


	


Yes, preparing the installation of an engine should be quality time. 

Read, ask, compare, it's part of the fun of home-building aircraft. I 

think both Rotax and Jabiru engines are fine engines, each with their 

own up and down sides. I don't know about Volkswagen but I have a 

friend with a motor-glider and he is very pleased with his VW Limbach.



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

pulsair(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: Volkswagon Conversion

I would love to trade my 912UL in for one of John  Monnett's Aero Vee engines. Imagine, one carburetor with a low RPM cruise!!!  Jeff Classic IV

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:45 pm Post subject: Volkswagon Conversion

Yes, I agree with your view Clint, unless you have a silly inventive streak like me and think you can do it cheaper... 

It took me longer to do my own engine conversion (EA81 Turbo) than build the a/c (series 5 TD) and I have enough left over R&D junk to sink a cruise liner, but  it was all fun. John A.

 

 [quote]   

From:  "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  Re: Volkswagon Conversion

Date:  Mon, 26 Jun 2006 02:59:34 +0000

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com>



My 2 cents worth.  Before you spend a small fortune and what seems like a lifetime installing an engine in a Kitfox, spend time doing some riding.  You can read all you want and all these engines are the answer to your prayers.  They are heavy, they claim all kinds of neat things. If you want to find out the engines that people don't like, then look in the for sale adds, they are all over the place.  Not too many Rotax powered Kitfoxes  and almost all of them are powered with these.  My 2 cents worth.  Clint 1100 hours on 912ULS and please do not make me compare my wife to my airplane, there different.  Clint

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com



Ken,

   What size is the VW? I am installing a Great Plains 2276 with a 1:6/1 Re drive in my series 7. This engine is said to put out 100+ HP on take off and 80+ HP continuous cruise. At approx. 175# you can't match that HP/weight ratio with any other auto conversion engine. Plus there are no gear boxes to mess with and the parts and technical help is readily available. This is a very simple engine that looks to be nearly bullet proof. Sonex uses their own version of the VW in their planes and from what I hear the customers are very happy. I think it also depends on what you expect from your plane. This is just my

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