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Arty Trost

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Sandy, Oregon

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:21 am Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

Hi folks,



I just joined the list - after having an incredible

adventure joining the Monument Valley Kolber's a few

weeks ago.  Met many wonderful folks, who didn't seem

to care at all that I had flown in (from Oregon) in a

single seat Maxair Drifter instead of in a Kolb.  They

treated me like I was human anyway! :>)



On the flight, I lost my fantastically light titanium

tie downs.  I can't get another pair now, and I'm

leaving for the EAA Airshow at Arlington, WA in a few

weeks, so need to get some soon.



Do any of you have a set of tie downs that you like? 

Suggestions and contact information for obtaining tie

downs would be appreciated. Weight and size are a

factor for me, since everything has to be strapped

down and I already am carrying all my camping gear,

extra parts, etc.  (I don't have a ground crew when I

fly.)



Thanks -



Arty Trost

Sandy, Oregon



www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com"Life's a daring adventureï¿½or nothing"                      Helen Keller"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:41 am Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

Try googling dog tie out.  Unfortunately most appear to be the heavy

chrome/steel spiral type.  -Good in solid earth but not in gravelly,

dry stuff.

Here's one that looks like it would be superior but you would have to

borrow a hammer to sink it.  Getting it out would also present a 

challenge.



http://tinyurl.com/kof42



do not archive

On 14, Jun 2006, at 10:20 AM, TheWanderingWench wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com>



 Hi folks,



 I just joined the list - after having an incredible

 adventure joining the Monument Valley Kolber's a few

 weeks ago.  Met many wonderful folks, who didn't seem

 to care at all that I had flown in (from Oregon) in a

 single seat Maxair Drifter instead of in a Kolb.  They

 treated me like I was human anyway! :>)



 On the flight, I lost my fantastically light titanium

 tie downs.  I can't get another pair now, and I'm

 leaving for the EAA Airshow at Arlington, WA in a few

 weeks, so need to get some soon.



 Do any of you have a set of tie downs that you like?

 Suggestions and contact information for obtaining tie

 downs would be appreciated. Weight and size are a

 factor for me, since everything has to be strapped

 down and I already am carrying all my camping gear,

 extra parts, etc.  (I don't have a ground crew when I

 fly.)



 Thanks -



 Arty Trost

 Sandy, Oregon



 www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com"Life's a daring adventureï¿½or nothing"     

                  Helen Keller"I refuse to tip toe through life just to 

 arrive safely at death."



====================================
	


====================================

====================================

====================================

 	  Quote:

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:57 am Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

At 07:20 AM 6/14/06 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



...........
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

Do any of you have a set of tie downs that you like? 

Suggestions and contact information for obtaining tie

downs would be appreciated. Weight and size are a

factor for me, since everything has to be strapped

down and I already am carrying all my camping gear,

extra parts, etc.  (I don't have a ground crew when I

fly.)


	


Arty,



My solution can be seen at:



http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly61.html



I use these quite a bit and they have worked very well.  While welding, it 

would have been good to weld the hoop closed on the top.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

jeepacro(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

I make my wife stand there and hold it. 

--

Rob.



---- "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 At 07:20 AM 6/14/06 -0700, you wrote:

 >

 >

 ............

 >

 >Do any of you have a set of tie downs that you like? 

 >Suggestions and contact information for obtaining tie

 >downs would be appreciated. Weight and size are a

 >factor for me, since everything has to be strapped

 >down and I already am carrying all my camping gear,

 >extra parts, etc.  (I don't have a ground crew when I

 >fly.)

 

 Arty,

 

 My solution can be seen at:

 

 http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly61.html

 

 I use these quite a bit and they have worked very well.  While welding, it 

 would have been good to weld the hoop closed on the top.

 

 Jack B. Hart FF004

 Winchester, IN

Arty Trost

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Sandy, Oregon

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

Dang - another sign of inferiority to you Kolbers - I

don't have a wife!  And my husband can't stand still. 

 If I could add some seats, I could use my 3 Great

Danes - they're pretty well trained to "down and stay"

almost indefinitely.  (Yes, I actually DO have 3 Great

Danes.)

Any other suggestions?



Arty

--- jeepacro(at)cox.net wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I make my wife stand there and hold it. 

 --

 Rob.

 

 ---- "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> wrote:

 

 > 

 <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>

 > 

 > At 07:20 AM 6/14/06 -0700, you wrote:

 > >

 TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com>

 > >

 > ............

 > >

 > >Do any of you have a set of tie downs that you

 like? 

 > >Suggestions and contact information for obtaining

 tie

 > >downs would be appreciated. Weight and size are a

 > >factor for me, since everything has to be

 strapped

 > >down and I already am carrying all my camping

 gear,

 > >extra parts, etc.  (I don't have a ground crew

 when I

 > >fly.)

 > 

 > Arty,

 > 

 > My solution can be seen at:

 > 

 >



http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly61.html
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   > 

 > I use these quite a bit and they have worked very

 well.  While welding, it 

 > would have been good to weld the hoop closed on

 the top.

 > 

 > Jack B. Hart FF004

 > Winchester, IN

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 >  

 >  

 >  

 > 

 > 

 >

 

 

 



 browse

 Subscriptions page,

 FAQ,

 Admin.



 

 

 

  

  

  

 

 

 

 


	




www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com



"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"

                      Helen Keller



"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."

tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:47 am Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

Jack B. Hart wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)



At 07:20 AM 6/14/06 -0700, you wrote:

        	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com> (thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com)



    	
   ............

        	  Quote: 	
		  Do any of you have a set of tie downs that you like? 

Suggestions and contact information for obtaining tie

downs would be appreciated. Weight and size are a

factor for me, since everything has to be strapped

down and I already am carrying all my camping gear,

extra parts, etc.  (I don't have a ground crew when I

fly.)

    	
   

Arty,



My solution can be seen at:



http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly61.html



I use these quite a bit and they have worked very well.  While welding, it 

would have been good to weld the hoop closed on the top.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN



  	
 	
 

 Jack,  

 

 You are what this list is all about!.  Thanks for the idea of shortening the ground stakes.  Exactly why I haven't carried these on my FireFly is because of the length and weight.  Wish I had thought of that!!  Now, if some of the others could get the idea of what this list is suppose to be or get lost!

 

 Will be making a set pronto!

 

 Terry -  FireFly # 95

WillUribe(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:00 am Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

Hi Arty,

I like the Claw tie downs, it may be too heavy for you to carry in you

airplane but check them out.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ps/tiedownsupplies.html



Did you have any more problems with your tail wheel after you left MV?



Regards,

Will Uribe

FireStar II N4GU

El Paso, TX

http://members.aol.com/WillUribe/mv/



--

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

I have the "Fly-Ties Tie Downs" listed on the same page...  They worked great for my Cessna 185, but at 6 pounds might be a little heavy for hauling in the Kolb... 

  

 DVD

 



 

 On 6/14/06, Guillermo Uribe <WillUribe(at)aol.com (WillUribe(at)aol.com)> wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guillermo Uribe" <WillUribe(at)aol.com  (WillUribe(at)aol.com)>



Hi Arty,

I like the Claw tie downs, it may be too heavy for you to carry in you

airplane but check them out.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ps/tiedownsupplies.html 



Did you have any more problems with your tail wheel after you left MV?



Regards,

Will Uribe

FireStar II N4GU

El Paso, TX

http://members.aol.com/WillUribe/mv/ 



--

_________________
Ã´Â¿Ã´

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

Inferior ??  After a 5 day - each way - flight from Oregon ??    I don't 

t'ink so.  It was good to meet you, after reading your stories in UL Flyer.



The lightest tie downs I've seen, and heard good reports on are the ones 

where you have 3 long stainless steel rods that you drive at angles thru a 

ring.  I don't have a name for 'em, but maybe someone can help us out.



The best and neatest tie downs from the wing to the stakes that I've seen 

are the ones John Williamson made for his Kolbra.  (and probably other 

planes before that)  Really slick.  He might just be talked into sending you 

a pic of them.                         Lar.



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

| The best and neatest tie downs from the wing to the stakes that 

I've seen

| are the ones John Williamson made for his Kolbra.   | 

Lar.

Don't know if you noticed or not, but John W doesn't use those tie 

down points any more.  I think you are speaking of the wing fold 

attach points, attached to the sheet metal fitting with about 8 ea 

1/8" rivets.  John W discovered these fittings would pull loose in the 

right wind conditions.  This year he is wrapping ropes, chains, or 

what ever is available around the top lift strut fitting.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

Yah, now that you say it, I remember hearing it, but I still like that 

"adjustment" feature on the water ski rope.                     Lar. 

Do not Archive.



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

Don't tie it down Keep flying )

 

 

 

 Ellery in Maine 

 do not archive

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

This this link out, it will take you to Sporty's 

Pilot Shop they sell the Claw Die Down lit - 

weighs 8#, comes with the 3 claw mechanisms, 

hammer, stakes,  rope,carrying bag.  I had heard 

these work good, but haven't used one myself.  I 

would think they should be able to ship it 

priority express or mail where you have them fairly quick.

jerb



http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?Product_ID=10258&DID=19



At 09:20 AM 6/14/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com>



Hi folks,



I just joined the list - after having an incredible

adventure joining the Monument Valley Kolber's a few

weeks ago.  Met many wonderful folks, who didn't seem

to care at all that I had flown in (from Oregon) in a

single seat Maxair Drifter instead of in a Kolb.  They

treated me like I was human anyway! :>)



On the flight, I lost my fantastically light titanium

tie downs.  I can't get another pair now, and I'm

leaving for the EAA Airshow at Arlington, WA in a few

weeks, so need to get some soon.



Do any of you have a set of tie downs that you like?

Suggestions and contact information for obtaining tie

downs would be appreciated. Weight and size are a

factor for me, since everything has to be strapped

down and I already am carrying all my camping gear,

extra parts, etc.  (I don't have a ground crew when I

fly.)



Thanks -



Arty Trost

Sandy, Oregon



www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com"Life's a daring 

adventureï¿½or 

nothing"                      Helen Keller"I 

refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."

jeepacro(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

LOL!!!    A-MEN...

--

Rob.



---- ElleryWeld(at)aol.com wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Don't tie it down Keep flying )

 

 

 

 Ellery in Maine 

 do not archive

dpaule(at)frii.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:51 am Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

On my Cessna Skywagon, I use two stakes, plain straight rods with sharpened

ends, about 18' long, at each location. They are pounded into the ground so

they cross - there's a bracket that holds them in that position. Simple and

works a charm.



The stakes are titanium; it's the best combination of strength and

lightness.



The aluminum bracket has a hole for the rope to the wing.



Here's what I've learned at Boulder Airport, watching airplanes get blown

over in our high winds.



These things  not what most people do. Most people do it wrong.



1. Rope stretch lets the airplane bounce around, and the dynamic overloads

break the airplane loose. Here's how to avoid that:



a) Make the ropes out of polyester. One of the marine ropes like Sta-Set is

excellent. Do not use nylon or polypropylene ropes or straps. It's too

stretchy. If possible, double up on the ropes.



b) Tie the ropes tight! I mean so tight that when you're pulling on them,

the airplane squeaks.



c) Tie the wing tiedowns first, then pull the plane back with the tail one.

That makes the ropes tighter.



d) Don't tie the ropes over the strut - tie them so that they can't possibly

slip down and pull the strut out of column.



2. Orientation is important. If you can predict where the wind will come

from, place the plane so that it's a quartering headwind. Sideways is okay.

Head into the wind is bad, because that way the wing will work, and the

possibility of dynamic overloads is high. Don't have the wind coming from

behind at all, because of the potential for control surface damage.



Got a question now - how do y'all tie the ropes to the wings? On my

Firestar, there's no tiedown points.



Thanks!

Dave Paule

Boulder, CO

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

| Got a question now - how do y'all tie the ropes to the wings? On my

| Firestar, there's no tiedown points.

|

| Thanks!

| Dave Paule

| Boulder, CO

Dave:



Use the bottom tang on the upper lift strut tang to weld a sturdy 

ring.  I use a FS starter rope ring, but found out at Moab, UT, last 

year, that it may need to be a bit stronger.  Wind pulled hard enough 

to elongate the ring on both wings.  ;-(



Take care,



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

George Alexander

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:54 am Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

Dave:

Know them Skywagons are big, heavy craft but I hope you meant 18 inches (")

and not 18 feet (').

George

http://gtalexander.home.att.net

DO NOT ARCHIVE



--

_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net

Arty Trost

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Sandy, Oregon

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:54 am Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

First - what a great list!  So many responses to my

question.  



David Paule wrote:

      "I use two stakes, plain straight rods with

sharpened ends, about    

      18' long. They are pounded into the ground so

they cross - there's

       a bracket that holds them in that position. The

stakes are

       titanium..."



I've seen these and they seem perfect.  Where are they

available?  Your description is similar to Lar's -

although he describes a "ring" rather than a bracket.



Jack  Hart-



Thanks for the detailed tie down info you put on your

webpage. Your dog spiral fix looks very good.  I also

came across some tie downs from Aircraft Spruce (their

MAS Tie Down System) which are a coiled variation of

the dog tie downs.  They weigh 4 lbs. - the least I've

seen so far.  



J.D. Stewart-

Randy is incredibly busy and I don't know if he's

making tie downs right now.  And since I need them for

an upcming flight, I put out my message to the Kolb

list.



Will Uribe and David Lehman-

The Claws (8 lbs.) and Fly Ties (6 lbs.) are not only

heavy, but also look pretty bulky.  So I decided to

look further.



Again - thanks to all of you for your responses.  The

one that appeals most to me is the suggestion to just

keep flying and not bother tying down at all!



Arty



www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com



"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"

                      Helen Keller



"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."

Jim Baker

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%: 



 	  Quote: 	
		    | Got a question now - how do y'all tie the ropes to the wings? On my

 | Firestar, there's no tiedown points.


	


Why not just replace the lift strut pin with an AN44 or AN45 eye 

bolt? Same tensile strength. Carabiner or other similar 

attachment can be used to connect to the eye hole.....



Jim Baker

580.788.2779

Elmore City, OK

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: Tie Down Suggestions

I use the steel dog type screw in tie downs but really wish I had purchased 

the titanium tie downs when they were available. I don't trust the tie downs 

I have so I put in two for each wing one gets roped to the lift strut and 

one gets roped to the wing fold fitting. That's four for the wings. Then I 

hook one to the tail wheel bell crank and pull it tight. The locked tail 

wheel will restrict the rudder movement to some extent. Then I loop my seat 

belt over the control stick to control aileron and elevator movement. It has 

survived sitting in the open field at Oshkosh for the last three years a 

hole week at a time. There have been some major thunder/rain/wind storms and 

nothing has broken or flown away yet.



There are three things I want to do in this are and they are:

Get some of those titanium tie downs.

Weld on some John Hauck rings on my lift strut tangs.

Devise a real rudder/elevator gust lock.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIc



---

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