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stabelvej9(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:05 am Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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Hi
Could someone show me where I can find figures for the fuel consumption on my 914 when let us say I go 4.200 rpm / 30" MP ... ???
All I can find is the graphics in Owners Manual and do. graphs. on other Rotax enclosures, but the MP is not an item as far as I can see.
Regards Gert
OY-GDS
Mono/914/Woodcomp
[img]cid:C6970731-1B86-47DC-80F6-DEDEB304646D(at)domain_not_set.invalid[/img]
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ivanshaw(at)btinternet.co
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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Gert,
I would not run 4200rpm and 30”….sounds a bit over square to me.
Best way to get your fuel burn info is by test on ‘your’ particular aircraft. Then arrive at a nice economy cruise speed/fuel burn and a regular cruise speed.
Remember you want to cruise your Europa ‘on the step’ AOA wise and this will vary with aircraft weight and differing aircraft. But at MTOW you want to be going 120kts indicated minimum to be nicely in the groove.
Most aircraft have a ‘sweet spot’ speed wise when the aircraft just ‘feels’ right!! Find the sweet spot for YOUR aircraft and cruise there….why would you do any other?!!
Cheers
Ivan
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gert Dalgaard Sørensen
Sent: 08 September 2014 16:05
To: Europa-List Digest Server
Subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ??
Hi
Could someone show me where I can find figures for the fuel consumption on my 914 when let us say I go 4.200 rpm / 30" MP ... ???
All I can find is the graphics in Owners Manual and do. graphs. on other Rotax enclosures, but the MP is not an item as far as I can see.
Regards Gert
OY-GDS
Mono/914/Woodcomp
[img]cid:image001.png(at)01CFCB89.25775790[/img]
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stabelvej9(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:52 pm Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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Hi Ivan - and others
Two years ago I had opportunity to purchase a brand new 914, and a Woodcomp at a very reasonably price.
Changed engine last summer after 700 hours og trouble free flying with the old constellation.
With the old set-up - 914/Warp Drive - i did 105 knots at 4600 rpm, burning 16.5 ltrs./hr.
At that power setting my old engine/prop really sounded like it could run for a thousand year - must be the "sweet spot", Ivan 
My new engine and prop. really sounds and feel OK at 4200 rpm / 30", and that is giving me exactly 120 knots IAS.
But again - this prop. is a completely new world for me ...
What power-setting are others aiming for at cruise with a 914 and adjustable prop?
And what fuel-flow do you get?
Regards
Gert
Den 08/09/2014 kl. 18.22 skrev Ivan Shaw <ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com (ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com)>:
[quote]Gert,
I would not run 4200rpm and 30”….sounds a bit over square to me.
Best way to get your fuel burn info is by test on ‘your’ particular aircraft. Then arrive at a nice economy cruise speed/fuel burn and a regular cruise speed.
Remember you want to cruise your Europa ‘on the step’ AOA wise and this will vary with aircraft weight and differing aircraft. But at MTOW you want to be going 120kts indicated minimum to be nicely in the groove.
Most aircraft have a ‘sweet spot’ speed wise when the aircraft just ‘feels’ right!! Find the sweet spot for YOUR aircraft and cruise there….why would you do any other?!!
Cheers
Ivan
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Gert Dalgaard Sørensen
Sent: 08 September 2014 16:05
To: Europa-List Digest Server
Subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ??
Hi
Could someone show me where I can find figures for the fuel consumption on my 914 when let us say I go 4.200 rpm / 30" MP ... ???
All I can find is the graphics in Owners Manual and do. graphs. on other Rotax enclosures, but the MP is not an item as far as I can see.
Regards Gert
OY-GDS
Mono/914/Woodcomp
<image001.png>
[b]
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:49 am Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hi Gert,
| Quote: | My new engine and prop. really sounds and feel OK at 4200 rpm /
30", and that is giving me exactly 120 knots IAS. But again - this
prop. is a completely new world for me ... What power-setting are
others aiming for at cruise with a 914 and adjustable prop?
|
We usuably cruise with 27" and about 4500 rpm if we are not in a
hurry, which is about 16 l/h fuel, and good for about 120 IAS.
I think for 30" you should go to about 5000 rpm. There is some curve
about that in some Rotax manual. Of course it also depends on the
balance of your prop (I have a two blade prop, and it feels just a bit
more rough in the area of 4600 to 4800 rpm, so I avoid that area.)
Frans
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max8992
Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:12 am Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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The automatic cruse setting of the Airmaster controler gives us 118Kt IAS (at)
5000rpm and 25.5" for a 19 l/h consumption. Trimmed on a manuel mode we
can't have better than 120Kt IAS (at) 4800 rpm and 26" for 18 l/H
Max Cointe
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours
F-PLDJ Dyn’Aéro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1660 heures
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Frans Veldman
Envoyé : mardi 9 septembre 2014 10:49
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Re: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ??
--> <frans(at)privatepilots.nl>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hi Gert,
| Quote: | My new engine and prop. really sounds and feel OK at 4200 rpm / 30",
and that is giving me exactly 120 knots IAS. But again - this prop. is
a completely new world for me ... What power-setting are others aiming
for at cruise with a 914 and adjustable prop?
|
We usuably cruise with 27" and about 4500 rpm if we are not in a hurry,
which is about 16 l/h fuel, and good for about 120 IAS.
I think for 30" you should go to about 5000 rpm. There is some curve about
that in some Rotax manual. Of course it also depends on the balance of your
prop (I have a two blade prop, and it feels just a bit more rough in the
area of 4600 to 4800 rpm, so I avoid that area.)
Frans
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_________________
Max8992
Europa XS #560 F-PMLH |
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mau11(at)orange.fr
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:26 am Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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|
Salut Max, à quelle hauteur tes 25.5"?
Par ailleurs j'ai mis mon avion en vente voir annonce RSA.
[img]cid:part1.00020303.01010700(at)orange.fr[/img]
Michel AUVRAY
Le 09/09/2014 11:11, Max Cointe (Free) a écrit :
| Quote: | | Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Max Cointe (Free)" <mcointe(at)free.fr> (mcointe(at)free.fr)
The automatic cruse setting of the Airmaster controler gives us 118Kt IAS (at)
5000rpm and 25.5" for a 19 l/h consumption. Trimmed on a manuel mode we
can't have better than 120Kt IAS (at) 4800 rpm and 26" for 18 l/H
Max Cointe
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours
F-PLDJ Dyn’Aéro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1660 heures
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] De la part de Frans Veldman
Envoyé : mardi 9 septembre 2014 10:49
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Objet : Re: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ??
--> Europa-List message posted by: Frans Veldman
--> <frans(at)privatepilots.nl> (frans(at)privatepilots.nl)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hi Gert,
| Quote: | My new engine and prop. really sounds and feel OK at 4200 rpm / 30",
and that is giving me exactly 120 knots IAS. But again - this prop. is
a completely new world for me ... What power-setting are others aiming
for at cruise with a 914 and adjustable prop?
|
We usuably cruise with 27" and about 4500 rpm if we are not in a hurry,
which is about 16 l/h fuel, and good for about 120 IAS.
I think for 30" you should go to about 5000 rpm. There is some curve about
that in some Rotax manual. Of course it also depends on the balance of your
prop (I have a two blade prop, and it feels just a bit more rough in the
area of 4600 to 4800 rpm, so I avoid that area.)
Frans
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ics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
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rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:20 am Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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Hi Gert & others,
On a recent trip to Ruidoso, NM I set “cruise" on my Airmaster (5000 rpm) & 30” MP which resulted in 120 kts IAS with a fuel flow of ~5 gph (~19 lph). This is with a tri-gear & no speed kit installed. If I ever get around to installing the wheel pants & gear leg fairings it will probably be faster at the same fuel flow or I can cruise at the same speed for a lower fuel flow.
I have heard that Rotax recommends not cruising at an rpm below 5000. I don’t know how critical that may be.
FWIW, a Grumman Tiger landed behind me followed me to the pumps. The copilot (pilot’s wife) said they ware cruising at 120 kts & burning 12 gph (54.4 lph).
Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX 76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Sep 8, 2014, at 11:51 PM, Gert Dalgaard Sørensen <stabelvej9(at)gmail.com (stabelvej9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Hi Ivan - and others
Two years ago I had opportunity to purchase a brand new 914, and a Woodcomp at a very reasonably price.
Changed engine last summer after 700 hours og trouble free flying with the old constellation.
With the old set-up - 914/Warp Drive - i did 105 knots at 4600 rpm, burning 16.5 ltrs./hr.
At that power setting my old engine/prop really sounded like it could run for a thousand year - must be the "sweet spot", Ivan
My new engine and prop. really sounds and feel OK at 4200 rpm / 30", and that is giving me exactly 120 knots IAS.
But again - this prop. is a completely new world for me ...
What power-setting are others aiming for at cruise with a 914 and adjustable prop?
And what fuel-flow do you get?
Regards
Gert
Den 08/09/2014 kl. 18.22 skrev Ivan Shaw <ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com (ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com)>:
[quote]Gert,
I would not run 4200rpm and 30”….sounds a bit over square to me.
Best way to get your fuel burn info is by test on ‘your’ particular aircraft. Then arrive at a nice economy cruise speed/fuel burn and a regular cruise speed.
Remember you want to cruise your Europa ‘on the step’ AOA wise and this will vary with aircraft weight and differing aircraft. But at MTOW you want to be going 120kts indicated minimum to be nicely in the groove.
Most aircraft have a ‘sweet spot’ speed wise when the aircraft just ‘feels’ right!! Find the sweet spot for YOUR aircraft and cruise there….why would you do any other?!!
Cheers
Ivan
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Gert Dalgaard Sørensen
Sent: 08 September 2014 16:05
To: Europa-List Digest Server
Subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ??
Hi
Could someone show me where I can find figures for the fuel consumption on my 914 when let us say I go 4.200 rpm / 30" MP ... ???
All I can find is the graphics in Owners Manual and do. graphs. on other Rotax enclosures, but the MP is not an item as far as I can see.
Regards Gert
OY-GDS
Mono/914/Woodcomp
<image001.png>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[b]
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mau11(at)orange.fr
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:27 am Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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|
Hello Bob,
What altitude do you check
Le 09/09/2014 16:22, Robert Borger a écrit : 5000rpm and 30" 120 kt ?
Many thanks
Michel AUVRAY
| Quote: | Hi Gert & others,
On a recent trip to Ruidoso, NM I set “cruise" on my Airmaster (5000 rpm) & 30” MP which resulted in 120 kts IAS with a fuel flow of ~5 gph (~19 lph). This is with a tri-gear & no speed kit installed. If I ever get around to installing the wheel pants & gear leg fairings it will probably be faster at the same fuel flow or I can cruise at the same speed for a lower fuel flow.
I have heard that Rotax recommends not cruising at an rpm below 5000. I don’t know how critical that may be.
FWIW, a Grumman Tiger landed behind me followed me to the pumps. The copilot (pilot’s wife) said they ware cruising at 120 kts & burning 12 gph (54.4 lph).
Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Sep 8, 2014, at 11:51 PM, Gert Dalgaard Sørensen <stabelvej9(at)gmail.com (stabelvej9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Hi Ivan - and others
Two years ago I had opportunity to purchase a brand new 914, and a Woodcomp at a very reasonably price.
Changed engine last summer after 700 hours og trouble free flying with the old constellation.
With the old set-up - 914/Warp Drive - i did 105 knots at 4600 rpm, burning 16.5 ltrs./hr.
At that power setting my old engine/prop really sounded like it could run for a thousand year - must be the "sweet spot", Ivan
My new engine and prop. really sounds and feel OK at 4200 rpm / 30", and that is giving me exactly 120 knots IAS.
But again - this prop. is a completely new world for me ...
What power-setting are others aiming for at cruise with a 914 and adjustable prop?
And what fuel-flow do you get?
Regards
Gert
Den 08/09/2014 kl. 18.22 skrev Ivan Shaw <ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com (ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com)>:
| Quote: | Gert,
I would not run 4200rpm and 30”….sounds a bit over square to me.
Best way to get your fuel burn info is by test on ‘your’ particular aircraft. Then arrive at a nice economy cruise speed/fuel burn and a regular cruise speed.
Remember you want to cruise your Europa ‘on the step’ AOA wise and this will vary with aircraft weight and differing aircraft. But at MTOW you want to be going 120kts indicated minimum to be nicely in the groove.
Most aircraft have a ‘sweet spot’ speed wise when the aircraft just ‘feels’ right!! Find the sweet spot for YOUR aircraft and cruise there….why would you do any other?!!
Cheers
Ivan
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Gert Dalgaard Sørensen
Sent: 08 September 2014 16:05
To: Europa-List Digest Server
Subject: Europa-List: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ??
Hi
Could someone show me where I can find figures for the fuel consumption on my 914 when let us say I go 4.200 rpm / 30" MP ... ???
All I can find is the graphics in Owners Manual and do. graphs. on other Rotax enclosures, but the MP is not an item as far as I can see.
Regards Gert
OY-GDS
Mono/914/Woodcomp
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rlborger(at)mac.com
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:45 am Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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Hello Michel,
That was at 8500 ft. Ruidoso airport elevation it 6814 ft and traffic pattern altitude is 7900 ft and you have to clear some high ground to get in. TAS was over 130 kts and ground speed was 145 kts with an unusual wind out of the east.
Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX 76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:26 AM, AUVRAY Michel <mau11(at)orange.fr (mau11(at)orange.fr)> wrote:
Hello Bob,
What altitude do you check
Le 09/09/2014 16:22, Robert Borger a écrit : 5000rpm and 30" 120 kt ?
Many thanks
Michel AUVRAY
| Quote: | Hi Gert & others,
On a recent trip to Ruidoso, NM I set “cruise" on my Airmaster (5000 rpm) & 30” MP which resulted in 120 kts IAS with a fuel flow of ~5 gph (~19 lph). This is with a tri-gear & no speed kit installed. If I ever get around to installing the wheel pants & gear leg fairings it will probably be faster at the same fuel flow or I can cruise at the same speed for a lower fuel flow.
I have heard that Rotax recommends not cruising at an rpm below 5000. I don’t know how critical that may be.
FWIW, a Grumman Tiger landed behind me followed me to the pumps. The copilot (pilot’s wife) said they ware cruising at 120 kts & burning 12 gph (54.4 lph).
Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Sep 8, 2014, at 11:51 PM, Gert Dalgaard Sørensen <stabelvej9(at)gmail.com (stabelvej9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Hi Ivan - and others
Two years ago I had opportunity to purchase a brand new 914, and a Woodcomp at a very reasonably price.
Changed engine last summer after 700 hours og trouble free flying with the old constellation.
With the old set-up - 914/Warp Drive - i did 105 knots at 4600 rpm, burning 16.5 ltrs./hr.
At that power setting my old engine/prop really sounded like it could run for a thousand year - must be the "sweet spot", Ivan
My new engine and prop. really sounds and feel OK at 4200 rpm / 30", and that is giving me exactly 120 knots IAS.
But again - this prop. is a completely new world for me ...
What power-setting are others aiming for at cruise with a 914 and adjustable prop?
And what fuel-flow do you get?
Regards
Gert
Den 08/09/2014 kl. 18.22 skrev Ivan Shaw <ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com (ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com)>:
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mau11(at)orange.fr
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:58 am Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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Many thanks Bob
Michel AUVRAY
Le 09/09/2014 16:48, Robert Borger a écrit :
| Quote: | Hello Michel,
That was at 8500 ft. Ruidoso airport elevation it 6814 ft and traffic pattern altitude is 7900 ft and you have to clear some high ground to get in. TAS was over 130 kts and ground speed was 145 kts with an unusual wind out of the east.
Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:26 AM, AUVRAY Michel <mau11(at)orange.fr (mau11(at)orange.fr)> wrote:
Hello Bob,
What altitude do you check
Le 09/09/2014 16:22, Robert Borger a écrit : 5000rpm and 30" 120 kt ?
Many thanks
Michel AUVRAY
| Quote: | Hi Gert & others,
On a recent trip to Ruidoso, NM I set “cruise" on my Airmaster (5000 rpm) & 30” MP which resulted in 120 kts IAS with a fuel flow of ~5 gph (~19 lph). This is with a tri-gear & no speed kit installed. If I ever get around to installing the wheel pants & gear leg fairings it will probably be faster at the same fuel flow or I can cruise at the same speed for a lower fuel flow.
I have heard that Rotax recommends not cruising at an rpm below 5000. I don’t know how critical that may be.
FWIW, a Grumman Tiger landed behind me followed me to the pumps. The copilot (pilot’s wife) said they ware cruising at 120 kts & burning 12 gph (54.4 lph).
Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Sep 8, 2014, at 11:51 PM, Gert Dalgaard Sørensen <stabelvej9(at)gmail.com (stabelvej9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Hi Ivan - and others
Two years ago I had opportunity to purchase a brand new 914, and a Woodcomp at a very reasonably price.
Changed engine last summer after 700 hours og trouble free flying with the old constellation.
With the old set-up - 914/Warp Drive - i did 105 knots at 4600 rpm, burning 16.5 ltrs./hr.
At that power setting my old engine/prop really sounded like it could run for a thousand year - must be the "sweet spot", Ivan
My new engine and prop. really sounds and feel OK at 4200 rpm / 30", and that is giving me exactly 120 knots IAS.
But again - this prop. is a completely new world for me ...
What power-setting are others aiming for at cruise with a 914 and adjustable prop?
And what fuel-flow do you get?
Regards
Gert
Den 08/09/2014 kl. 18.22 skrev Ivan Shaw <ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com (ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com)>:
| Quote: | Gert,
I would not run 4200rpm and 30”….sounds a bit over square to me.
Best way to get your fuel burn info is by test on ‘your’ particular aircraft. Then arrive at a nice economy cruise speed/fuel burn and a regular cruise speed.
Remember you want to cruise your Europa ‘on the step’ AOA wise and this will vary with aircraft weight and differing aircraft. But at MTOW you want to be going 120kts indicated minimum to be nicely in the groove.
Most aircraft have a ‘sweet spot’ speed wise when the aircraft just ‘feels’ right!! Find the sweet spot for YOUR aircraft and cruise there….why would you do any other?!!
Cheers
Ivan
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Gert Dalgaard Sørensen
Sent: 08 September 2014 16:05
To: Europa-List Digest Server
Subject: Europa-List: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ??
Hi
Could someone show me where I can find figures for the fuel consumption on my 914 when let us say I go 4.200 rpm / 30" MP ... ???
All I can find is the graphics in Owners Manual and do. graphs. on other Rotax enclosures, but the MP is not an item as far as I can see.
Regards Gert
OY-GDS
Mono/914/Woodcomp
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Roland
Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:30 am Post subject: Re: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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Hi there,
I found out, that it makes quite a difference for measuring performance and fuel consumption, if I'm solo on board or at MTOM. Plus it's often not mentioned at which altitude the speed is indicated. At least this (from my point of view) is important to have comparable figures.
That said, I unfortunately do not have accurate numbers for my aircraft (Trigear with speed kit, Rotax 914 and Airmaster prop). Roughly I cruise between 115 and 120 KIAS at 2000 ft close to 20 l/h at MTOM.
Gert, thanks again for selling me your engine - it runs like a sewing machine
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS Trigear 914
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rlborger(at)mac.com
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:45 am Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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Michel,
WRT Roland’s recent comment on weight -- For my Ruidoso trip I was very light. Just myself, the aircraft cover & a small bag. Probably 200 lbs below MTOW.
Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX 76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:58 AM, AUVRAY Michel <mau11(at)orange.fr (mau11(at)orange.fr)> wrote:
Many thanks Bob
Michel AUVRAY
Le 09/09/2014 16:48, Robert Borger a écrit :
| Quote: | Hello Michel,
That was at 8500 ft. Ruidoso airport elevation it 6814 ft and traffic pattern altitude is 7900 ft and you have to clear some high ground to get in. TAS was over 130 kts and ground speed was 145 kts with an unusual wind out of the east.
Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:26 AM, AUVRAY Michel <mau11(at)orange.fr (mau11(at)orange.fr)> wrote:
Hello Bob,
What altitude do you check
Le 09/09/2014 16:22, Robert Borger a écrit : 5000rpm and 30" 120 kt ?
Many thanks
Michel AUVRAY
| Quote: | Hi Gert & others,
On a recent trip to Ruidoso, NM I set “cruise" on my Airmaster (5000 rpm) & 30” MP which resulted in 120 kts IAS with a fuel flow of ~5 gph (~19 lph). This is with a tri-gear & no speed kit installed. If I ever get around to installing the wheel pants & gear leg fairings it will probably be faster at the same fuel flow or I can cruise at the same speed for a lower fuel flow.
I have heard that Rotax recommends not cruising at an rpm below 5000. I don’t know how critical that may be.
FWIW, a Grumman Tiger landed behind me followed me to the pumps. The copilot (pilot’s wife) said they ware cruising at 120 kts & burning 12 gph (54.4 lph).
Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Sep 8, 2014, at 11:51 PM, Gert Dalgaard Sørensen <stabelvej9(at)gmail.com (stabelvej9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Hi Ivan - and others
Two years ago I had opportunity to purchase a brand new 914, and a Woodcomp at a very reasonably price.
Changed engine last summer after 700 hours og trouble free flying with the old constellation.
With the old set-up - 914/Warp Drive - i did 105 knots at 4600 rpm, burning 16.5 ltrs./hr.
At that power setting my old engine/prop really sounded like it could run for a thousand year - must be the "sweet spot", Ivan
My new engine and prop. really sounds and feel OK at 4200 rpm / 30", and that is giving me exactly 120 knots IAS.
But again - this prop. is a completely new world for me ...
What power-setting are others aiming for at cruise with a 914 and adjustable prop?
And what fuel-flow do you get?
Regards
Gert
Den 08/09/2014 kl. 18.22 skrev Ivan Shaw <ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com (ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com)>:
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:12 am Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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On 09/09/2014 05:30 PM, Roland wrote:
| Quote: | I found out, that it makes quite a difference for measuring
performance and fuel consumption, if I'm solo on board or at MTOM.
|
I always fly (at least) at MTOW. However what I found out is that the
distribution of the weight has quite an impact on performance: the
more aft, the less drag, and the better the performance.
Hence when Ilona and I are going on vacation with a lot of lugage with
us, the airplane is actually faster than when we are flying with just
the seats occupied.
The reason is simple: with the CoG more aft the tailplane has less
"inverted lift" to produce, and this also reduces the load on the main
wings. So this reduces two times induced drag.
Indeed, while cruising in stable weather we often shift a few heavy
things more aft in the bagage compartment, which is immediately
rewarded by the need to trim a bit more forward, followed by a higher
cruise speed.
Another thing you need to be aware off is that it makes a difference
whether you climbed up to that speed, or came down to that speed. So
we often overshoot our intended altitude a bit, and after reaching a
stabilized speed, we push her down to the desired altitude, and a
higher speed is kept if you be cautious not to let that speed to be
"climbed away" again.
I know, we consider it some kind of sport to get the most out of our
flying machine (or out of our precious fuel). It is worth a grin if
you get a consistent 120 knots for 16 l/h.
| Quote: | Plus it's often not mentioned at which altitude the speed is
indicated. At least this (from my point of view) is important to
have comparable figures.
|
IAS is IAS regardless of altitude as far as I can recall. Of course
altitude has influence on ground speed, but that should never be used
for performance comparisons.
Frans
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Roland
Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:37 am Post subject: Re: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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[/quote]
IAS is IAS regardless of altitude as far as I can recall
Frans,
I think you are wrong here. The higher you fly, the less KIAS you have with the same power Setting, although you can add 2 % "true" per 1000 ft.
Roland
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:52 am Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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On 09/09/2014 08:37 PM, Roland wrote:
| Quote: | I think you are wrong here. The higher you fly, the less KIAS you
have with the same power setting.
|
Never observed that, and why would that be the case?
(Just to be sure, with "power setting" you don't mean the position of
the throttle on a naturally aspirated engine, right?)
Frans
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Roland
Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:08 am Post subject: Re: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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Hi Frans,
for example here an extraction of the Cirrus SR 22 POH
SR22 nonT ISA, Werte teils interpoliert, IAS errechnet
Alt/Power/TAS/IAS/FF /GpH
8000 55% 160 138 13,1
10000 55% 163 136 13,1
12000 55% 166 134 13,1
14000 55% 170 133 13,1
16000 55% 173 131 13,1
17000 55% 175 131 13,2
Doesn't have anything to do with Turbo/Non Turbo.
Groet
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS Trigear 914
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:29 am Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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On 09/09/2014 09:08 PM, Roland wrote:
| Quote: | for example here an extraction of the Cirrus SR 22 POH
|
Interesting! These are rather high altitudes, don't know if that has
anything to do with it. Also, does the Cirrus have variable pitch props?
I'm looking for a reason why this could be. As I said, I never
observed something like this with my Europa. The only thing that
changes at high (FL100) altitudes (besides the increase in ground
speed) is that the cooling is a bit less due to the lower density so I
have to open up the cowl flap a bit more. All other flight parameters
remain the same. Which makes somehow sense as both the aerodynamic
drag and pressure on the pitot diminish at the same rate. Any idea here?
Frans
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Roland
Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:42 am Post subject: Re: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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I don't know, how good your German is, but I don't have anything other at hand - sorry (and cannot explain it myself):
https://www.pilotundflugzeug.de/forum/2014,08,04,18,3733399
Let's discuss that on Texel next year 
SR 22 has a variable-pitch-prop
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:20 pm Post subject: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On 09/09/2014 09:42 PM, Roland wrote:
| Quote: |
I don't know, how good your German is, but I don't have anything
other at hand - sorry (and cannot explain it myself):
|
I have read it (I can read German if I have to ) but it seems
there is no real definite answer, but if I understand correctly it is
because of reduced prop efficiency at altitude.
The solution to this seems to have a prop with a larger diameter,
which is exactly what I have.
And of course I have my questions about the effects in more normal
altitudes, like from 0 to FL90, instead of FL80 to FL170. I mean,
FL170 (like in the graph) is something I never have been testing with
my Europa.
Frans
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Remi Guerner
Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:45 am Post subject: Re: 914 / Woodcomp / fuel consumption ... ?? |
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Hi all,
I would like to add a few comments on the subject of aircraft cruise performances:
1. At a given power, with any aircraft type, higher is faster. That is because higher mean less density, therefore less drag. For a given power, the altitude at which you will get the best speed is when you need full throttle to get this power.
2. Law of physics: for a given true airspeed (TAS), indicated airspeed (IAS) decreases by the square root of density. Density decreases with altitude and temperature. To measure and compare aircraft performances, forget IAS and measure TAS using the 3 vector GPS method. This should be done in smooth air, at the same power, at the same density altitude and same load.
3. With my aircraft, XS Monowheel 912ULS, Airmaster prop, whenever I want to evaluate the effect of a drag reduction mod, I climb to 8500ft density altitude. This can be FL85 and minus 2 deg.C or FL75 and 10 deg.C or FL65 and 20 deg.C or any other combination giving a 8500ft density altitude, depending on the prevailing conditions. Going full throttle eliminate the effect of any error of the manifold pressure instrument. The actual MP will be about 22 In.Hg. Prop RPM set at 5000. According to the Rotax Owner Manual, this setting gives 59 percent of max continuous power. This setting give me a consistent 135 kts TAS. I do not care what IAS is, as this is not relevant. TAS does not change significantly with the aircraft weight and/or balance. Average fuel burn measured on many long cross country at this setting is around 19 liter per hour.
Regards
Remi
XS mono F-PGKL
1160 hours
.
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