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Flap position adustment?

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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:51 am Post subject: Flap position adustment?

Since my plane is down until the engine overhaul is finished I have

been checking different things I have always put off. One is that the

airplane has always flown left wing low. Today I set everything to

neutral and found that the right flap is slightly lower when the left

flap and both ailerons are neutral. This would explain why the

airplane flies left wing low. Rich told me a long time ago it was an

easy adjustment, but he knew what he was doing.



So now my question is how do I raise just one flap? Can somebody

provide instructions, preferably with pictures of how to slightly

raise just the right flap?



Thanks.



Galin

Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: Flap position adustment?

Galin,     From the Builders Manual on my website.  I can tell you that it is a trial and error process but the following should explain it.   

 [b][url=]SETTING FLAP POSITION[/url]  If the small plastic square that rides in the flap actuation "track" is deliberately drilled slightly off center, it can be a possible adjustment mechanism to assure symmetrical flap position. A side offset of roughly .020 in. and a vertical offset of .040 in. will give you up to .08 inch of corrective travel if required in .02 in, increments by relative rotational position of the blocks on each side. More severe corrections can be obtained by greater offsets, but the actuation arm may interfere with the sides of the "track."  When the two flap sides are equal, it is a simple matter to adjust linkage length to place the flaps in proper position for normal flight (as checked by the airfoil template."  Actuate the flaps through full travel, and clear any interference problems and assure free and positive operation.    

 Bob Reed[/b]

    

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com> 

Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:51 PM

Subject: Flap position adustment?



 [quote][b]

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:12 am Post subject: Flap position adustment?

I don't think there is a simple way of adjusting the flaps relative to each other on the TR-4.  

The easiest way is to bond on a little shim on the trailing edge of the wing root fairing so when the flap is retracted it will contact the block and hold the flap slightly down.  I would start with a 1/16" block.  I used phenolic in my TR-1.  I have a 1/8" shim for my right  flap.  There is enough flexibility in the flap mechanism to absorb it.

Scott





 

     On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:51 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:

  

  



 --> KIS-List message posted by: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>



Since my plane is down until the engine overhaul is finished I have

been checking different things I have always put off. One is that the

airplane has always flown left wing low. Today I set everything to

neutral and found that the right flap is slightly lower when the left

flap and both ailerons are neutral. This would explain why the

airplane flies left wing low. Rich told me a long time ago it was an

easy adjustment, but he knew what he was doing.



So now my question is how do I [quote][b]

fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:13 am Post subject: Flap position adustment?

Galin,



You would either have to adjust the angle of the actuator arm on the right flap tube, or adjust the angle of the channel guide that the arm slides in.

Al

On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:51 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> KIS-List message posted by: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Since my plane is down until the engine overhaul is finished I have

 been checking different things I have always put off. One is that the

 airplane has always flown left wing low. Today I set everything to

 neutral and found that the right flap is slightly lower when the left

 flap and both ailerons are neutral. This would explain why the

 airplane flies left wing low. Rich told me a long time ago it was an

 easy adjustment, but he knew what he was doing.

 

 So now my question is how do I raise just one flap? Can somebody

 provide instructions, preferably with pictures of how to slightly

 raise just the right flap?

 

 Thanks.

 

 Galin

 

 ===========

 List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

dptate49(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:13 am Post subject: Flap position adustment?

And here I always assumed that it was because us pilots were overweight.

Dave Tate

 

     On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:51 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:

  

  



 --> KIS-List message posted by: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>



Since my plane is down until the engine overhaul is finished I have

been checking different things I have always put off. One is that the

airplane has always flown left wing low. Today I set everything to

neutral and found that the right flap is slightly lower when the left

flap and both ailerons are neutral. This would explain why the

airplane flies left wing low. Rich told me a long time ago it was an

easy adjustment, but he knew what he was doing.



So now my question is how do I raise just one flap? Can [quote][b]

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:19 am Post subject: Flap position adustment?

Ok, That is where you make the adjustment but how do you get the small

plastic square out so you can rotate it?



On 9/30/14, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 Galin,



 >From the Builders Manual on my website.  I can tell you that it is a trial

 and error process but the following should explain it.

  SETTING FLAP POSITION

 If the small plastic square that rides in the flap actuation "track" is

 deliberately drilled slightly off center, it can be a possible adjustment

 mechanism to assure symmetrical flap position. A side offset of roughly .020

 in. and a vertical offset of .040 in. will give you up to .08 inch of

 corrective travel if required in .02 in, increments by relative rotational

 position of the blocks on each side. More severe corrections can be obtained

 by greater offsets, but the actuation arm may interfere with the sides of

 the "track."

 When the two flap sides are equal, it is a simple matter to adjust linkage

 length to place the flaps in proper position for normal flight (as checked

 by the airfoil template."

 Actuate the flaps through full travel, and clear any interference problems

 and assure free and positive operation.



 From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

 To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

 Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:51 PM

 Subject: Flap position adustment?

 



 Since my plane is down until the engine overhaul is finished I have

 been checking different things I have always put off. One is that the

 airplane has always flown left wing low. Today I set everything to

 neutral and found that the right flap is slightly lower when the left

 flap and both ailerons are neutral. This would explain why the

 airplane flies left wing low. Rich told me a long time ago it was an

 easy adjustment, but he knew what he was doing.



 So now my question is how do I raise just one flap? Can somebody

 provide instructions, preferably with pictures of how to slightly

 raise just the right flap?



 Thanks.



 Galin

 Bob Reed

Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:35 am Post subject: Flap position adustment?

I seem to recall having to disconnect the flap actuator arm so it could slide out of the track with the flaps all the way down. 

  

 Been a long time since I went through the process.

  

 Bob

    

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:18 PM

Subject: Re: Flap position adustment?



 

--> KIS-List message posted by: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>



Ok, That is where you make the adjustment but how do you get the small

plastic square out so you can rotate it?



On 9/30/14, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:

[quote]



 Galin,



 >From the Builders Manual on my website.  I can tell you that it is a trial

 and error process but the following should explain it.

  SETTING FLAP POSITION

 If the small plastic square that rides in the flap actuation "track" is

 deliberately drilled slightly off center, it can be a possible adjustment

 mechanism to assure symmetrical flap position. A side offset of roughly .020

 in. and a vertical offset of .040  in. will give you up to .08 inch of

 corrective travel if required in .02 in, increments by relative rotational

 position of the blocks on each side. More severe corrections can be obtained

 by greater offsets, but the actuation arm may interfere with the sides of

 the "track."

 When the two flap sides are equal, it is a simple matter to adjust linkage

 length to place the flaps in proper position for normal flight (as checked

 by the airfoil template."

 Actuate the flaps through full travel, and clear any interference problems

 and assure free and positive operation.



 From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>

 To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>

 Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:51 PM

 Subject: Flap position adustment?

 --> KIS-List message posted by: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>



 Since my plane is down until the engine overhaul is finished I have

 been checking different things I have always put off. One is that the

 airplane has always flown left wing low. Today I set everything to

 neutral and found that the right flap is slightly lower when the left

 flap and both ailerons are neutral. This would explain why the

 airplane flies left wing low. Rich told me a long time ago it was an

 easy adjustment, but he knew what he was doing.



 So now my question is how do I raise just one flap? Can somebody

 provide [quote][b]

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:15 am Post subject: Flap position adustment?

Makes sense. So how do you disconnect the flap actuator arm?



On 9/30/14, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I seem to recall having to disconnect the flap actuator arm so it could

 slide out of the track with the flaps all the way down.



 Been a long time since I went through the process.



 Bob



 ________________________________

 From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:18 PM

 Subject: Re: Flap position adustment?

 



 Ok, That is where you make the adjustment but how do you get the small

 plastic square out so you can rotate it?



 On 9/30/14, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net> wrote:

> Galin,

>

> >From the Builders Manual on my website.  I can tell you that it is a

> trial

> and error process but the following should explain it.

>  SETTING FLAP POSITION

> If the small plastic square that rides in the flap actuation "track" is

> deliberately drilled slightly off center, it can be a possible adjustment

> mechanism to assure symmetrical flap position. A side offset of roughly

> .020

> in. and a vertical offset of .040 in. will give you up to .08 inch of

> corrective travel if required in .02 in, increments by relative

> rotational

> position of the blocks on each side. More severe corrections can be

> obtained

> by greater offsets, but the actuation arm may interfere with the sides of

> the "track."

> When the two flap sides are equal, it is a simple matter to adjust

> linkage

> length to place the flaps in proper position for normal flight (as

> checked

> by the airfoil template."

> Actuate the flaps through full travel, and clear any interference

> problems

> and assure free and positive operation.

>

> From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

> To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:51 PM

> Subject: Flap position adustment?

> 

>

> Since my plane is down until the engine overhaul is finished I have

> been checking different things I have always put off. One is that the

> airplane has always flown left wing low. Today I set everything to

> neutral and found that the right flap is slightly lower when the left

> flap and both ailerons are neutral. This would explain why the

> airplane flies left wing low. Rich told me a long time ago it was an

> easy adjustment, but he knew what he was doing.

>

> So now my question is how do I raise just one flap? Can somebody

> provide instructions, preferably with pictures of how to slightly

> raise just the right flap?

>

> Thanks.

>

> Galin

> Bob Reed

wschertz343(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:56 am Post subject: Flap position adustment?

This is one case where a change from the plans that I made were beneficial 

(and logical). I was concerned about unequal flaps during construction, 

because of the feedback I got from an RV builder after his first flight --  

"it was a little wing heavy, so I took a couple of turns out of the flap 

actuator and then it was perfect". Hmm I thought, I can't do that. I then 

decided to do a split flap actuator at the center of the plane. Purchased a 

second arm that goes in the center, and mounted it beside the regular arm, 

with the torque tube cut in half. Then I made a special push rod that had 

two bearing ends to attach to the two arms. Then turning the bearing ends 

independently would allow slight changes to the flaps. Sure enough, after 

1st flight I had to make a couple of adjustment.  I thought I sent picture 

of this to Bob's web site.

Bill Schertz



To disconnect? Can you remove the bolts at the end of the torque tube so 

that the flap can rotate further down to free the block?



--

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:15 pm Post subject: Flap position adustment?

What do you mean by end  of the torque tube?



On 9/30/14, William Schertz <wschertz343(at)gmail.com> wrote:

[quote] 



 This is one case where a change from the plans that I made were beneficial

 (and logical). I was concerned about unequal flaps during construction,

 because of the feedback I got from an RV builder after his first flight --



 "it was a little wing heavy, so I took a couple of turns out of the flap

 actuator and then it was perfect". Hmm I thought, I can't do that. I then

 decided to do a split flap actuator at the center of the plane. Purchased a



 second arm that goes in the center, and mounted it beside the regular arm,

 with the torque tube cut in half. Then I made a special push rod that had

 two bearing ends to attach to the two arms. Then turning the bearing ends

 independently would allow slight changes to the flaps. Sure enough, after

 1st flight I had to make a couple of adjustment.  I thought I sent picture

 of this to Bob's web site.

 Bill Schertz



 To disconnect? Can you remove the bolts at the end of the torque tube so

 that the flap can rotate further down to free the block?



 --

Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:53 pm Post subject: Flap position adustment?

Galin,

  

 Check out Bill's modifications by clicking on the following    Flap Modifications

  

 You can try disconnecting the actuator to the interior actuator arm and see if you get enough movement otherwise you may have to remove the bolts on the actuator arm that connects to the flaps.  I seem to remember getting enough play by disconnecting the interior so it could go all the way down.

  

 Bob

  

  

  

 



    

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:14 PM

Subject: Re: Flap position adustment?



 

--> KIS-List message posted by: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>



What do you mean by end  of the torque tube?



On 9/30/14, William Schertz <wschertz343(at)gmail.com (wschertz343(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> KIS-List message posted by: "William Schertz" <wschertz343(at)gmail.com (wschertz343(at)gmail.com)>



 This is one case where a change from the plans that I made were beneficial

 (and logical). I was concerned about unequal flaps during construction,

 because of the feedback I got from an RV builder after his first flight --



 "it was a little wing heavy, so I took a couple of turns out of the flap

 actuator and then it was perfect". Hmm I thought, I can't do that. I  then

 decided to do a split flap actuator at the center of the plane. Purchased a



 second arm that goes in the center, and mounted it beside the regular arm,

 with the torque tube cut in half. Then I made a special push rod that had

 two bearing ends to attach to the two arms. Then turning the bearing ends

 independently would allow slight changes to the flaps. Sure enough, after

 1st flight I had to make a couple of adjustment.  I thought I sent picture

 of this to Bob's web site.

 Bill Schertz



 To disconnect? Can you remove the bolts at the end of the torque tube so

 that the flap can rotate further down to free the block?



 --

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:12 pm Post subject: Flap position adustment?

Okay let me try that first. Can you unscrew the flap at the hinges

without too much problem?



On 9/30/14, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net> wrote:

[quote]

 Galin,



 Check out Bill's modifications by clicking on the following    Flap

 Modifications



 You can try disconnecting the actuator to the interior actuator arm and see

 if you get enough movement otherwise you may have to remove the bolts on the

 actuator arm that connects to the flaps.  I seem to remember getting enough

 play by disconnecting the interior so it could go all the way down.



 Bob





 From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:14 PM

 Subject: Re: Flap position adustment?

 



 What do you mean by end  of the torque tube?



 On 9/30/14, William Schertz <wschertz343(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> 

>

> This is one case where a change from the plans that I made were

> beneficial

> (and logical). I was concerned about unequal flaps during construction,

> because of the feedback I got from an RV builder after his first flight

> --

>

> "it was a little wing heavy, so I took a couple of turns out of the flap

> actuator and then it was perfect". Hmm I thought, I can't do that. I then

> decided to do a split flap actuator at the center of the plane. Purchased

> a

>

> second arm that goes in the center, and mounted it beside the regular

> arm,

> with the torque tube cut in half. Then I made a special push rod that had

> two bearing ends to attach to the two arms. Then turning the bearing ends

> independently would allow slight changes to the flaps. Sure enough, after

> 1st flight I had to make a couple of adjustment.  I thought I sent

> picture

> of this to Bob's web site.

> Bill Schertz

>

> To disconnect? Can you remove the bolts at the end of the torque tube so

> that the flap can rotate further down to free the block?

>

> --

Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:55 pm Post subject: Flap position adustment?

Galin,

 Not sure on your plane.  I have set mine up with removable hinge pins so I pull three pins and the flaps are free.  

 My first shot on yours would be to disconnect the push rod from the flap actuator arm on the inside of the plane.  This should allow the flaps to drop down farther than they normally would and hopefully they would allow the outside actuator to come clear of the channel.  If that doesn't work the only choice would probably be to remove the bolts that connect the outside actuator arm to the torque tube.  Those may be rather difficult to get at and remove so I hope the first alternative works.

 Removing the entire flap would be the last resort since it's a bear to reinstall with all those screws.

 All I can say is GOOD LUCK!!!

 Bob

 PS:  I got to work on my project this weekend for the first time in 10 months.  If you can call washing all the dirt off and cleaning the hangar working on the plane.  Spent most of time cleaning but did spread thin application of filler over entire plane in preparation for sanding and primer.  Next weekend I will proceed with my most favorite of all ......SANDING!!!

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 5:12 PM

Subject: Re: Flap position adustment?

--> KIS-List message posted by: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>

Okay let me try that first. Can you unscrew the flap at the hinges

without too much problem?

On 9/30/14, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:

[quote]

 Galin,

 Check out Bill's modifications by clicking on the following    Flap

 Modifications

 You can try disconnecting the actuator to the interior actuator arm and see

 if you get enough movement otherwise you may have to remove the bolts on the

 actuator arm that connects to the flaps.  I seem to remember getting enough

 play by disconnecting the interior so it could go all the way down.

  Bob

 From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:14 PM

 Subject: Re: Flap position adustment?

 --> KIS-List message posted by: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>

 What do you mean by end  of the torque tube?

 On 9/30/14, William Schertz <wschertz343(at)gmail.com (wschertz343(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

> --> KIS-List message posted by: "William Schertz" <wschertz343(at)gmail.com (wschertz343(at)gmail.com)>

>

> This is one case where a change from the plans that I made were

> beneficial

> (and logical). I was concerned about unequal flaps during construction,

> because of the feedback I got from an RV builder after his first flight

> --

>

> "it was a little wing heavy, so I took a couple of turns out of the flap

> actuator and then it was perfect". Hmm I thought, I can't do that. I then

> decided to do a split flap actuator at the center of the plane. Purchased

> a

>

> second arm that goes in the center, and mounted it beside the regular

> arm,

> with the torque tube cut in half. Then I made a special push rod that had

> two bearing ends to attach to the two arms. Then turning the bearing ends

> independently would allow  slight changes to the flaps. Sure enough, after

> 1st flight I had to make a couple of adjustment.  I thought I sent

> picture

> of this to Bob's web site.

> Bill Schertz

>

> To disconnect? Can you remove the bolts at the end of the torque tube so

> that the flap can rotate further down to free the block?

>

> --

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:45 am Post subject: Flap position adustment?

Put your flaps part way down and push up and down on the flap to see how rigid the flaps are.  I significantly upgraded the stiffness on the flap system on my TR-1 and the mechanism is still flexible enough to move the flap trailing edge up and down 1/8" or more by hand.  

I think that if you adjusted the flap mechanism to adjust one flap down the flap will just flex back up to press against the wing fairing in flight.

I would recommend using shims on the trailing edge of the wing fairing to get it to fly wings level with the flaps up, but you have to adjust the mechanism somehow to get it to fly wings level flaps down.  

Scott



 [quote][b]

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