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Alternator failure. Info provided (stop)

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gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: Alternator failure. Info provided (stop)

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net (mstewart(at)iss.net)>

After 250 hours my 14684 ND alternator finally gave way. 

   
	


   

  Well you got some questionable advice for professionals?

  

14684 is a standard Lester number everyone knows.

  

A quick search or auto part store web sites like 

Rockauto.com and others sites the 14684. 

  

It is common on the 

  1988-87) Chevrolet Sprint 1.0L 

(1995-86) Suzuki Samurai 1.3L 

(1989) Suzuki Sidekick 1.3L 

  

14870? I might believe a #14937 as an alternator but what 

  is a 14870?  

  

As far as finding parts for a 14684, parts are available, however 

I would not let them work on it. To be honest you are better 

trading it in and getting another unit. It does have core value.

   

  Local rebuilds by local  shops I have found in my experience are 

not to great. You can't beat a lifetime warranty from the parts 

store on a rebuild. You can get it rebuilt (by a shop that knows 

how to buy parts) but I would get an estimate and good guarantee.

   

  By the time a local auto electrics buys the part, marks it up 

2 or 4 times and charges labor, it will be cheaper and better 

to get a rebuild from Pop Boys or Auto Zone. Not all rebuilds 

  from auto stores are good either. I would suggest investing 

  in a Plane Power alternator ($375)

   

  Don't feel bad about finding a replacement on the road. You

should have much less problem but it is worse with a B&C 

unit for example. That can not be field replace or repaired, 

since it is a custom unit. 

   

  I am surprised the stator is fried, what ever that means. 

   

   

   ***FIELD WIRE IS NOT ON YOUR UNIT***

   

  ALSO, Please don't cycle the ALT switch (power to the 

IGN wire) On and Off on the alternator while it is spinning, 

i.e.,  making power.

   

  Field Wires are for alternators with external voltage regulators,

period. FIELD refers to changing the voltage of the field to provide 

control of the output voltage. The field is the rotor windings. So 

the more voltage in the rotor winding to more output. THIS IS 

not how the internal regulator control wire works in a ND alternator.

   

  The wire on a ND with I-VR is an on off signal only.

   

  You do have a field but it is all internal to the unit.

   

   

  The ND alternator does not have FIELD wire, it's a IGN wire. The 

function is to tell the alternative to wake up, to go to work  or 

go to sleep after you turn the engine off. IT'S NOT made to turn it  

ON and OFF while under load. Does you car have a ALT switch? 



   

  NO. You will burn the regulator out eventually if you keep that 

operation up. The IGN lead is a low current ON and OFF signal 

and nothing more. The current is low, unlike a true field wire 

which might have 5 amps or more going thru it.

   

  You do have a field but it is all internal to the unit.

   

  There is no reason cycle the alternator ON/OFF. MASTER 

and  ALT on one DPST switch is a good idea so you are not 

tempted to do this.

   

   

  Since you IGN wire (which only needs well under 1 amp) is 

protected with a pull-able CB (or should be),  you can pull the 

CB if you need to for a non-normal situation where you want 

to  remove power from the IGN wire with the MASTER ON. 

   

  Again alternator on before engine start and remains on until 

the engine stops turning.

   

  Here are the Niagara instructions which will help. As I said 

make the CB's pull-able. The Niagara unit is a similar ND 

alternator. 

   

  http://www.niagaraairparts.com/alt-instr.pdf

   

   

  Cheers George M. 



  

 

   

   



  		Want to be your own boss? Learn how on [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=41244/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index] Yahoo! Small Business.[/url]

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endspeed(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:21 pm Post subject: Alternator failure. Info provided (stop)

Hi George,

After reading your post I was left wondering why

bother having a field switch at all in this type of

alternator. Is there a reason to have a field switch? 

Bob Sultzbach

--- gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   >From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"

 <mstewart(at)iss.net>

 >After 250 hours my 14684 ND alternator finally gave

 way. 

   Well you got some questionable advice for

 professionals?

 14684 is a standard Lester number everyone knows.

 A quick search or auto part store web sites like 

 Rockauto.com and others sites the 14684. 

 It is common on the 

   1988-87) Chevrolet Sprint 1.0L 

 (1995-86) Suzuki Samurai 1.3L 

 (1989) Suzuki Sidekick 1.3L 

 14870? I might believe a #14937 as an alternator but

 what 

   is a 14870?  

 As far as finding parts for a 14684, parts are

 available, however 

 I would not let them work on it. To be honest you

 are better 

 trading it in and getting another unit. It does have

 core value.

   Local rebuilds by local shops I have found in my

 experience are 

 not to great. You can't beat a lifetime warranty

 from the parts 

 store on a rebuild. You can get it rebuilt (by a

 shop that knows 

 how to buy parts) but I would get an estimate and

 good guarantee.

   By the time a local auto electrics buys the part,

 marks it up 

 2 or 4 times and charges labor, it will be cheaper

 and better 

 to get a rebuild from Pop Boys or Auto Zone. Not all

 rebuilds 

   from auto stores are good either. I would suggest

 investing 

   in a Plane Power alternator ($375)

   Don't feel bad about finding a replacement on the

 road. You

 should have much less problem but it is worse with a

 B&C 

 unit for example. That can not be field replace or

 repaired, 

 since it is a custom unit. 

   I am surprised the stator is fried, what ever that

 means. 

   ***FIELD WIRE IS NOT ON YOUR UNIT***

   ALSO, Please don't cycle the ALT switch (power to

 the 

 IGN wire) On and Off on the alternator while it is

 spinning, 

 i.e.,  making power.

   Field Wires are for alternators with external

 voltage regulators,

 period. FIELD refers to changing the voltage of the

 field to provide 

 control of the output voltage. The field is the

 rotor windings. So 

 the more voltage in the rotor winding to more

 output. THIS IS 

 not how the internal regulator control wire works in

 a ND alternator.

   The wire on a ND with I-VR is an on off signal

 only.

   You do have a field but it is all internal to the

 unit.

   The ND alternator does not have FIELD wire, it's a

 IGN wire. The 

 function is to tell the alternative to wake up, to

 go to work or 

 go to sleep after you turn the engine off. IT'S NOT

 made to turn it  

 ON and OFF while under load. Does you car have a ALT

 switch? 

   NO. You will burn the regulator out eventually if

 you keep that 

 operation up. The IGN lead is a low current ON and

 OFF signal 

 and nothing more. The current is low, unlike a true

 field wire 

 which might have 5 amps or more going thru it.

   You do have a field but it is all internal to the

 unit.

   There is no reason cycle the alternator ON/OFF.

 MASTER 

 and  ALT on one DPST switch is a good idea so you

 are not 

 tempted to do this.

   Since you IGN wire (which only needs well under 1

 amp) is 

 protected with a pull-able CB (or should be),  you

 can pull the 

 CB if you need to for a non-normal situation where

 you want 

 to remove power from the IGN wire with the MASTER

 ON. 

   Again alternator on before engine start and

 remains on until 

 the engine stops turning.

   Here are the Niagara instructions which will help.

 As I said 

 make the CB's pull-able. The Niagara unit is a

 similar ND 

 alternator. 

   http://www.niagaraairparts.com/alt-instr.pdf

   Cheers George M. 

 ---------------------------------

 Want to be your own boss? Learn how on  Yahoo! Small

 Business. 

__________________________________________________

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brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: Alternator failure. Info provided (stop)

On Jun 29, 2006, at 6:30 PM, <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com (gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com)> <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com (gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  By the time a local auto electrics buys the part, marks it up 

2 or 4 times and charges labor, it will be cheaper and better 

to get a rebuild from Pop Boys or Auto Zone. Not all rebuilds 

  from auto stores are good either. I would suggest investing 

  in a Plane Power alternator ($375)

   

  Don't feel bad about finding a replacement on the road. You

should have much less problem but it is worse with a B&C 

unit for example. That can not be field replace or repaired, 

since it is a custom unit.



	


But the point is moot if the B&C unit doesn't fail. 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

   

  I am surprised the stator is fried, what ever that means.



	


Fried means "burned up". I have seen many fried stators. Most alternators will burn themselves up if operated at or near their ratings for any length of time. The stator overheats because it really isn't designed to deliver 100% output. (Sustained output greater than about 50% seems to do in most automotive-type alternators.) The result is that the insulation melts/burns and the stator windings short to the case. This is a very common failure mode.

 	  Quote: 	
		   

  	




 Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Waybrian-yak AT lloyd DOT com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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_________________
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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