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Warp drive hub.
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Graeme Toft

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 123

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.

Hi Guy, can anyone tell me if a 68inch Warp Drive 3  blade prop will match up with an NSI gear box. Im not sure about the gear ratio  of the NSI but I have been told they are 2.5 to 1 for the EA81 engine. I was  going to purchase a Bolly carbon fibre prop but the Warp Drive was offered to me  for half price so its a good deal if it fits OK. If someone with could tell me  which way to go it would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

  

 Regards

Graeme

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:46 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.

Oh I forgot to mention, 2:1 reduction and Series 5 TD



  	  Quote: 	
		        Hi Guy, can anyone tell me if a 68inch Warp Drive 3 blade prop will match up with an NSI gear box. Im not sure about the gear ratio of the NSI but I have been told they are 2.5 to 1 for the EA81 engine. I was going to purchase a Bolly carbon fibre prop but the Warp Drive was offered to me for half price so its a good deal if it fits OK. If someone with could tell me which way to go it would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

  

 Regards

Graeme 



	


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janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:46 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.

I have a 72" on an EA81 Turbo and very pleased indeed with performance. John A.



  	  Quote: 	
		        Hi Guy, can anyone tell me if a 68inch Warp Drive 3 blade prop will match up with an NSI gear box. Im not sure about the gear ratio of the NSI but I have been told they are 2.5 to 1 for the EA81 engine. I was going to purchase a Bolly carbon fibre prop but the Warp Drive was offered to me for half price so its a good deal if it fits OK. If someone with could tell me which way to go it would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

  

 Regards

Graeme 



	


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Graeme Toft

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 123

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:11 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.

Thanks John but this is a 68 inch prop. I had a 70  inch warp on before but Im just putting the question out there to see if its a  viable option going with the 68 inch.

 Regards

Graeme Toft

Queensland Safety Solutions

Ph: 07  49397011

Mob: 0411476527

 [quote]   ---

morid(at)northland.lib.mi
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:21 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.

Graeme, my stock NSI box is 2.67 for the normally  aspirated engine.  Other ratios were available, but this is the box that  was supplied with the CAP.

 Deke

  

  	  Quote: 	
		      

   Hi Guy, can anyone tell me if a 68inch Warp Drive    3 blade prop will match up with an NSI gear box. Im not sure about the gear    ratio of the NSI but I have been told they are 2.5 to 1 for the EA81 engine. I    was going to purchase a Bolly carbon fibre prop but the Warp Drive was offered    to me for half price so its a good deal if it fits OK. If someone with could    tell me which way to go it would be appreciated. Thanks in    advance.

    

   Regards

Graeme

kirkhull(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:23 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.

I have  that same prop on my VI with a Stratus EA81 ( also a 2.5 to 1 & 100  HP)  It is what the engine manufacturer suggested.  I will let you  know how it flies later this afternoon as it will have its first fligth  today.

 [quote]   --

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.

I  think you will be OK with the  match, however if you have  a  2:5:1 you may need to find some 3:23:1 or lower gears for a non-turbo  application.  I ran 3X72 warp drives on the NSI hub and 3:34:1 was just  about right for the turbo. Maybe the 68s will make a big difference, not  sure.  Gear are tough to come by as the redrives are not being built. Check  with Engerfeller and see if he got all of NSIs old stock. I have an NSI   CAP hub assembly for sale should you or someone else need a replacement or  spare. 

 [quote]   

   --

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:18 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.

Correction 2:X:1 not 3, gezzzz old is bad. There was a lot of playing  around with ration way back. Best to start with the original suggested  recommendation with the given prop combination. 

  

 Rick

 [quote]   

   --

Clem Nichols

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Munfordville, Ky

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.

It's my understanding that if the builder did not  specify otherwise, the standard prop reduction ratio was 2.34 to 1 with the NSI  EA81 non-turbo engine.

  

 Clem Nichols

  

  

 [quote]   ---

Graeme Toft

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 123

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.

Unfortunately the manual I have for this gear box  does not state the gear ratio but the model number is NSI A12/A30 or at least  thats what the cover says. If this is the model you are referring to Clem, do  you feel the 68 inch Warp Drive would be OK. Kirk has been advised that this is  the correct size for his Status EA81 but he didnt say what gear box he is  running. I will be interested to hear how his first flight went. 

  

 Regards

Graeme Toft

Queensland Safety Solutions

Ph: 07  49397011

Mob: 0411476527

 [quote]   ---

Graeme Toft

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 123

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.

Thanks Kirk, I will be interested to hear how you  went. I know this will be a huge day for you as it sounds like a first flight  coming up. 

  

 Regards

Graeme

---

morid(at)northland.lib.mi
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.

My apologies.  I just checked mine and it is  indeed 2:34.

 Thanks for the correction.

 Deke

  

 [quote]   ---

Clem Nichols

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Munfordville, Ky

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.

Graeme:

  

 I know nothing about the model number.  My  plane has a 70 inch Ward Drive Prop which has been shortened about 1/2" because  of a ground-strike I was careless enough to make.  I would first quote Tony  Bingelis, the guru who has written several books on experimental building, when  he says "Use as long a prop as you can for as long as you can".  Having  said that, you can always put enough pirch into the prop to keep the engine from  over-revving.  I cannot say what effect that would have on your climb rate  or your cruise speed, however.  It goes without saying that anything you  gain on climb, you lose on cruise, and vice-versa.  I wish I could tell you  more, but this is the sum total of my knowledge about props.

  

 Clem Nichols

 Do Not Post 

 [quote]   From:    QSS (msm(at)byterocky.net) 

   To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com) 

   Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 7:38 PM

   Subject: Re: Warp drive    hub.

   



   Unfortunately the manual I have for this gear box    does not state the gear ratio but the model number is NSI A12/A30 or at least    thats what the cover says. If this is the model you are referring to Clem, do    you feel the 68 inch Warp Drive would be OK. Kirk has been advised that this    is the correct size for his Status EA81 but he didnt say what gear box he is    running. I will be interested to hear how his first flight went. 

    

   Regards

Graeme Toft

Queensland Safety Solutions

Ph: 07    49397011

Mob: 0411476527

   [quote]     ---

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.

Deke,



Had me worried for a minute...   Thought you had

the John Deere GB.  Mine is 2.23 to 1 for the little

turbo and I think I would have liked it closer to 2:1.

 Your GB seems to do well for the normal engine.



As far as I know, Warp has had an excellent reputation

after some initial issues with cracking hubs that they

fixed. (Warp, not NSI hubs)  The blades are very

strong and seem to do well.



John McB....  What is going to be standard prop on the

new Fox's?



Kurt S.



--- Fox5flyer <morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   MessageMy apologies.  I just checked mine and it is

 indeed 2:34.

 Thanks for the correction.

 Deke


	


__________________________________________________

Michael Logan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 82

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:48 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.

The ratio is 2.41:1

---- wingsdown <wingsdown(at)comcast.net> wrote: 

[quote] Correction 2:X:1 not 3, gezzzz old is bad. There was a lot of playing

 around with ration way back. Best to start with the original suggested

 recommendation with the given prop combination. 

  

 Rick

 

 --

_________________
Mike Logan
Fredericksburg, VA

rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.

Clem said:  

“It goes without saying that anything you gain on climb, you lose on cruise, and vice-versa.”  

   

Clem,  

I know my comment here does not exactly address your statement above, but I think it is pertinent.  

   

When I shortened my Powerfin to 70” based on their recommendation, I was able to put more pitch in  and got 6 or 7 MPH faster cruise AND a much shorter take off run than with the original 72”.   I was amazed that 1” on the radius could make that much difference an improve both ends of performance.  

   

Randy  

   

     

.             

  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clem Nichols

 Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 8:24 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Warp drive hub.  

  

     

Graeme:  

    

   

    

I know nothing about the model number.  My plane has a 70 inch Ward Drive Prop which has been shortened about 1/2" because of a ground-strike I was careless enough to make.  I would first quote Tony Bingelis, the guru who has written several books on experimental building, when he says "Use as long a prop as you can for as long as you can".  Having said that, you can always put enough pirch into the prop to keep the engine from over-revving.  I cannot say what effect that would have on your climb rate or your cruise speed, however.  It goes without saying that anything you gain on climb, you lose on cruise, and vice-versa.  I wish I could tell you more, but this is the sum total of my knowledge about props.  

    

   

    

Clem Nichols  

    

Do Not Post   

  [quote]    

From: QSS (msm(at)byterocky.net)   

    

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 7:38 PM  

    

Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warp drive hub.  

    

   

    

Unfortunately the manual I have for this gear box does not state the gear ratio but the model number is NSI A12/A30 or at least thats what the cover says. If this is the model you are referring to Clem, do you feel the 68 inch Warp Drive would be OK. Kirk has been advised that this is the correct size for his Status EA81 but he didnt say what gear box he is running. I will be interested to hear how his first flight went.   

    

   

    

Regards

 Graeme Toft

   Queensland Safety Solutions

 Ph: 07 49397011

 Mob: 0411476527  

  [quote]    

---

Clem Nichols

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Munfordville, Ky

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:17 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.

Randy:

  

 Yes, I would be amazed also.  I wonder if  anyone else in the group has had a similar experience.  Kirk and Michel,  you're our physicists and theoreticians.  Any thoughts on explaining  Randy's observation?

  

 Clem Nichols

 Do Not Archive

 [quote]   ---

dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:34 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.

On Props, 

  

 Perhaps Paul Seehafer could post his findings on  his IVO prop.  his  912 Amphib cruises well over 100 mph he told me  and is really quite amazing. I think if i remember correctly he said he  shortened the prop a bit as well.

  

 Paul are you out there? 

  

  

 Dave

  

  

 [quote]   ---

shoeless(at)barefootpilot
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:40 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.

Here's a slightly different example of some prop experimentation....

On our previous model 5 with the 912 xtra we had the 72" "wide" blade warp 

drive prop. We normally would set the pitch for take-off/climb which 

resulted in too little pitch for a good cruise. We borrowed some tapered 

Warp drive blades that were 70". Cruise improved by about 7 knots and the 

climb "rate" went up also, BUT, the climb angle was less. Many people look 

only at climb rate and not climb angle. For a bush plane climb rate means 

little, it's the angle of climb that is important for clearing obstacles. 

The wide blades got us off the ground quicker and was much better at 

clearing obstacles, the sacrifice was speed and climb "rate". For making 

short field landings, the longer, wider blades were far superior as they 

would create a lot of drag at idle which allowed for some steep descents.

As to why Randy got shorter take-offs with the shorter blades it's hard to 

know for sure. It's possible that the blades at the longer length were just 

beyond the maximum that the available torque of the engine could handle. 

Maybe he just had the pitch set too high. But I wanted to throw in my 2 

cents worth regarding the warp drive blades because I did quite a bit of 

experimenting with the wide and long vs. narrow and short. Short answer is, 

wide and long for bush work, short and narrow for cruise.

Best Regards,

Cliff

MessageRandy:



Yes, I would be amazed also.  I wonder if anyone else in the group has had a 

similar experience.  Kirk and Michel, you're our physicists and 

theoreticians.  Any thoughts on explaining Randy's observation?



Clem Nichols

Do Not Archive

  ---

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Clem Nichols [cnichols(at)scrtc.com]

 Kirk and Michel, you're our physicists and theoreticians.  Any thoughts on explaining

 Randy's observation?


	


.. what? What have you been smoking, Clem, I want some!  My only knowledge about propellers is nearly 30 years old and only with yachts. I haven't a clue why shortening a 72" prop to 70 would make both climb-out and cruise performance better.

But thanks for the compliment, you really made my day! 



PS: My Jabiru prop is only 60" diameter, which at WOT (3,050 prop RPM) gives me a tip moving at 285 m/s, well under the speed of the sound of 340 m/s



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

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