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Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder

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brainsflight(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:01 am Post subject: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder

Greetings everyone: 

   

  I not a very good builder and I am not much better as a pilot.  However I do have a CFI rating, thousands of flying hours, flown several different taildraggers, currently own/fly a Luscombe, taught some people how to fly and given several tailwheel endorsements.  I haven't killed myself, wrecked, or groundlooped any airplanes....yet.   I wholeheartedly agree with the endorsement of Stick & Rudder.  It's an essential book for every pilot.  The first time I read part 1 "Wings" and Chapter 1 "How a Wing is Flown" it cleared up so much confusion in my previous 16 years of flying (including Air Force training).  Get it, read it, re-read it.  

   

  As far as crosswind landings go...I've seen 2 main schools of thought.  What I like is what I typically teach in a  taildragger....wing low into the wind to stop cross track....opposite rudder as needed to keep the nose pointed straight down the runway.  Other pilots like to maintain a crab into the wind and then take it out when they are close to the ground. There can be a heated debate on both sides of this topic.  

   

  As far as the 701 goes, I flew with Roger at the factory again a few weeks ago and he said the plane is recommended not to be slipped (by Chris Heintz).  He demonstrated to me in a power off/nose high configuration that the airplane will come down quickly and then added power as we got closer to the ground for a soft landing.  That was Roger's technique.  I know many on this list have been flying their planes for hundreds of hours and will probably have their own techniques that work.  

   

  Thanks everyone for sharing information on  this wonderful builder's list...I am glad Jon survived his crash and I am glad our airplanes are designed to take a beating.  

   

  Cheers, 

Brian "Brain" Kissinger

  www.brainsflight.com

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p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:26 am Post subject: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Brian, 	




 Thank you for your post on the crosswind landing issue.  Your comprehensive coverage of this topic leads me to ask you for further information and opinion.



 First is the issue of performing a forward slip landing with flaps (or in the case of the 701 with slats).  I think I have heard several instructors suggest that either flaps or a slip is appropriate for losing extra altitude on final approach but not both.  I don't know why both would be inappropriate, but I have never done the slip with flaps because of that comment  The kind of slip I am talking about in this case is not the light one to compensate for a crosswind but the deep one used to dump altitude.



 The other issue is one that has bothered me ever since contemplating flying again after some 15 years on the ground.  It seems popular today for pilots to land light planes with power all the way to touchdown.  I know this is common practice with multiengine planes, but in the old days I was taught to make the final approach with power off (unless there was a good reason to do otherwise like trying to stay ahead of heavy traffic at high use airports).  I think the power off approach works just fine in most cases and also gives the pilot plenty of practice for dead stick landings in case of engine failure.  I don't know of any advantage of using power on all approaches other than it makes them a little easier to perform.  Sadly, there seem to be too many owners of light aircraft who come to a bad end when they fail to make a good approach after an engine failure and hit the only tree around or fail to clear the final hurdle.



 In Roger's case, I can't help but wonder what will happen if his "Behind the curve" dumping of altitude is punctuated by a failure of the engine to slow the descent as you described.  I have heard of doing that sort of approach with power on, but never with power off.  The power on version is somewhat like a helicopter landing and allows for crazy pilots to make incredibly short ground rolls, but is not for the uninitiated or weak of heart.



 I would love to hear you comments on the above issues.



 Best regards,



 Paul

 XL fuselage



  	  Quote: 	
		   

 I not a very good builder and I am not much better as a pilot.  However I do have a CFI rating, thousands of flying hours, flown several different taildraggers, currently own/fly a Luscombe, taught some people how to fly and given several tailwheel endorsements.  I haven't killed myself, wrecked, or groundlooped any airplanes....yet.   I wholeheartedly agree with the endorsement of Stick & Rudder.  It's an essential book for every pilot.  The first time I read part 1 "Wings" and Chapter 1 "How a Wing is Flown" it cleared up so much confusion in my previous 16 years of flying (including Air Force training).  Get it, read it, re-read it.  

  

 As far as crosswind landings go...I've seen 2 main schools of thought.  What I like is what I typically teach in a taildragger....wing low into the wind to stop cross track....opposite rudder as needed to keep the nose pointed straight down the runway.  Other pilots like to maintain a crab into the wind and then take it out when they are close to the ground. There can be a heated debate on both sides of this topic.  

  

 As far as the 701 goes, I flew with Roger at the factory again a few weeks ago and he said the plane is recommended not to be slipped (by Chris Heintz).  He demonstrated to me in a power off/nose high configuration that the airplane will come down quickly and then added power as we got closer to the ground for a soft landing.  That was Roger's technique.  I know many on this list have been flying their planes for hundreds of hours and will probably have their own techniques that work.  

  

 Thanks everyone for sharing information on this wonderful builder's list...I am glad Jon survived his crash and I am glad our airplanes are designed to take a beating.  

  

 Cheers, 

 Brian "Brain" Kissinger

  www.brainsflight.com

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cscsail(at)gmavt.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:40 am Post subject: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder

Paul,     I agree. I also was  taught to land light planes power off, and only carried power when necessary,  generally to lengthen an approach. I  use the slip and full flaps to  drop out of the sky when needed, or just for the fun of it. It's a very good  exercise for coordination, just keep one eye on the airspeed. I've found  the technique very impressive when a CFI on a biannual cuts power at  1200' mid field and wants a simulated engine out landing. You can stay very  close to the field with a rapid decent and if it looks like you may  come up short -- start easing up on the slip and/or some flaps. This was a  regular maneuver for me in a C177 Cardinal I owned for more than 10 years. I'm  wondering if there is a reason NOT to slip with full flaps in a  701?

  

 Gordon

 CH701  75%

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hrs1(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder

For many years I successfully side slipped my Piper  Dakota when landing in heavy crosswinds.  I'd be extremely interested on an  expansion of the comment below that Chris doesn't recommend slips in the  701.  Why?  What is the reaction of the plane?  Thanks.   Robert Schoenberger 701 60%

 [quote]   ---

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hrs1(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:28 am Post subject: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder

In very light planes such as the 701, isn't the  power on to landing due to the lack of inertia of these planes? Robert  Schoenberger 701  do not archive

 [quote]   ---

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cscsail(at)gmavt.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:38 pm Post subject: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder

Paul,     I agree. I also was  taught to land light planes power off, and only carried power when necessary,  generally to lengthen an approach. I  use the slip and full flaps to  drop out of the sky when needed, or just for the fun of it. It's a very good  exercise for coordination, just keep one eye on the airspeed. I've found  the technique very impressive when a CFI on a biannual cuts power at  1200' mid field and wants a simulated engine out landing. You can stay very  close to the field with a rapid decent and if it looks like you may  come up short -- start easing up on the slip and/or some flaps. This was a  regular maneuver for me in a C177 Cardinal I owned for more than 10 years. I'm  wondering if there is a reason NOT to slip with full flaps in a  701?

  

 Gordon

 CH701  75%

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rlee468(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder

I never land my 701 with any power on final. Most  of the time I use no power from the downwind threshold. Occasionally I will have  to add a touch of power to make the runway, but only if I am to far from the  runway on downwind, or there is a tailwind on downwind that I have  miscalculated. Yes, it drops fast and the window to flare is small but it is not  hard to master.

 Ron Lee

 Tucson, AZ

 [quote]   ---

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NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder

Ron

  

 What kind of sink rate are you getting, what is your glide speed , are you  using flaps and what type/size runway are you using?

  

 I usually keep power in right to touchdown except when I fly over my 150'  power line approach to my grass strip.

  

 Bob Spudis

 N701ZX

  

 In a message dated 7/3/2006 4:31:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  rlee468(at)comcast.net writes:

 [quote]   I never land my 701 with any power on final. Most    of the time I use no power from the downwind threshold. Occasionally I will    have to add a touch of power to make the runway, but only if I am to far from    the runway on downwind, or there is a tailwind on downwind that I have    miscalculated. Yes, it drops fast and the window to flare is small but it is    not hard to master.

   Ron Lee

   Tucson, AZ

   [quote]     ---

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