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Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:09 am Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

Everyone0 knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision Engines and I think they do0 great work but there is an article in this months Kitplanes that gives some good0 information on BPE and why they would make a good choice for anyone that is0 looking for an engine.

  

   I am0 in no way affiliated with them and have received no kickbacks (other than a0 beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor did I receive any breaks for having my0 engine on display at OSH.  I am simply very impressed with their customer0 service and ability to be straight shooters when it comes to questions on their0 engines.  Ask Allen what he thinks about me putting dual LSE III ignitions0 on sometime.  

  

   If someone0 would like a copy of the article, email me offline and I'll shoot you a0 copy.

  

 Michael0 Sausen

VHMUM(at)bigpond.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

Michael what did he say about LSE??

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

DITTO for Bart at Aero Sport.  Great reputation and good folks to do business with. No kick backs either. 

Mark (N410MR Flying with Io 540 A4D5 - One Light Speed and one mag) 

Do not archive



  	  Quote: 	
		       Everyone knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision Engines and I think they do great work but there is an article in this months Kitplanes that gives some good information on BPE and why they would make a good choice for anyone that is looking for an engine.

  

   I am in no way affiliated with them and have received no kickbacks (other than a beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor did I receive any breaks for having my engine on display at OSH.  I am simply very impressed with their customer service and ability to be straight shooters when it comes to questions on their engines.  Ask Allen what he thinks about me putting dual LSE III ignitions on sometime.  

  

   If someone would like a copy of the article, email me offline and I'll shoot you a copy.

  

 Michael Sausen

jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

I think I am quoting fairly closely here: “I don’t like ‘em and won’t build another engine with 2 of ‘em!”  

     

Jesse Saint  

I-TEC, Inc.  

jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)  

www.itecusa.org  

W: 352-465-4545  

C: 352-427-0285  

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie Darcy

 Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 5:19 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE  

  

     

Michael what did he say about LSE??  

    

   

    

do not archive  

  [quote]    

---

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

I’m sure Allen will be happy to explain it in detail if you want to contact him as it’s been a while since we had the conversation.  The bottom line is he has seen more HP out of mags than the LSE and I believe he feels mags are more reliable with less complexity.  Fair enough but I still wanted the LSE’s given their track record of reduced fuel consumption and that the utilize more modern technology.  

   

  Keep in mind that the LSE’s are not adaptive as modern auto EI’s are.  The LSE’s have a specific ignition map that they follow with the only variables being RPM and MP.  IIRC  

   

Michael  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie Darcy

 Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 4:19 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE  

  

  

     

Michael what did he say about LSE??  

    

   

    

do not archive  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)   

    

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 1:02 AM  

    

Subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE  

    

   

    

  Everyone knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision Engines and I think they do great work but there is an article in this months Kitplanes that gives some good information on BPE and why they would make a good choice for anyone that is looking for an engine.  

    

   

    

  I am in no way affiliated with them and have received no kickbacks (other than a beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor did I receive any breaks for having my engine on display at OSH.  I am simply very impressed with their customer service and ability to be straight shooters when it comes to questions on their engines.  Ask Allen what he thinks about me putting dual LSE III ignitions on sometime.    

    

   

    

  If someone would like a copy of the article, email me offline and I'll shoot you a copy.  

    

   

    

Michael Sausen

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

Sounds about right.    Doesn’t help that Klaus sent him a bad/used connector and then wanted to charge him for overnight shipping in order to meet OSH deadlines.  Honestly if it wasn’t for the fact that so many are flying with good results, I would stay away based on LSE’s history of poor customer support.  

   

Michael  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint

 Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 5:05 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE  

  

  

   

I think I am quoting fairly closely here: “I don’t like ‘em and won’t build another engine with 2 of ‘em!”  

     

Jesse Saint  

I-TEC, Inc.  

jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)  

www.itecusa.org  

W: 352-465-4545  

C: 352-427-0285  

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie Darcy

 Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 5:19 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE  

  

     

Michael what did he say about LSE??  

    

   

    

do not archive  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)   

    

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 1:02 AM  

    

Subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE  

    

   

    

  Everyone knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision Engines and I think they do great work but there is an article in this months Kitplanes that gives some good information on BPE and why they would make a good choice for anyone that is looking for an engine.  

    

   

    

  I am in no way affiliated with them and have received no kickbacks (other than a beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor did I receive any breaks for having my engine on display at OSH.  I am simply very impressed with their customer service and ability to be straight shooters when it comes to questions on their engines.  Ask Allen what he thinks about me putting dual LSE III ignitions on sometime.    

    

   

    

  If someone would like a copy of the article, email me offline and I'll shoot you a copy.  

    

   

    

Michael Sausen  

  	
  

   

--

 No virus found in this incoming message.

 8/4/2006  

   

--

 8/4/2006

gorejr(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

I just ordered a IO540 for my RV-10 at Barrets at Oskosh. I would like to read 

the article if possible. Thanks Jim,    Michael your engine looked great! 



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>

 Date: 2006/08/05 Sat AM 11:02:46 EDT

 To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

 Subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

 

   Everyone knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision Engines and I

 think they do great work but there is an article in this months

 Kitplanes that gives some good information on BPE and why they would

 make a good choice for anyone that is looking for an engine.

  

   I am in no way affiliated with them and have received no kickbacks

 (other than a beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor did I receive any

 breaks for having my engine on display at OSH.  I am simply very

 impressed with their customer service and ability to be straight

 shooters when it comes to questions on their engines.  Ask Allen what he

 thinks about me putting dual LSE III ignitions on sometime.  

  

   If someone would like a copy of the article, email me offline and I'll

 shoot you a copy.

  

 Michael Sausen

marc(at)kitplanes.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:49 am Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

Bart does great work.

What do you mean by "kick backs"?

On Aug 5, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Mark Ritter wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  DITTO for Bart at Aero Sport.  Great reputation and good folks to do business with. No kick backs either.

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

I have no horse in this race either but friends I respect have all seconded the choice of Barrett.  For those inclined towards LOP operations, you will find GAMI is supportive as well.  That was a great article in Kitplanes.  

   

John Cox  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)

 Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:03 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE  

  

     

  Everyone knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision Engines and I think they do great work but there is an article in this months Kitplanes that gives some good information on BPE and why they would make a good choice for anyone that is looking for an engine.  

    

   

    

  I am in no way affiliated with them and have received no kickbacks (other than a beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor did I receive any breaks for having my engine on display at OSH.  I am simply very impressed with their customer service and ability to be straight shooters when it comes to questions on their engines.  Ask Allen what he thinks about me putting dual LSE III ignitions on sometime.    

    

   

    

  If someone would like a copy of the article, email me offline and I'll shoot you a copy.  

    

   

    

Michael Sausen

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

Good point!  I meant as in no under the table transfer of funds for my endorsement.    

   

Michael  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Cook

 Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:49 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE  

  

  

   

Bart does great work.    

   

    

What do you mean by "kick backs"?  

    

   

    

       

On Aug 5, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Mark Ritter wrote:  

  



 

   

DITTO for Bart at Aero Sport.  Great reputation and good folks to do business with. No kick backs either.

marc(at)kitplanes.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:26 am Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

Got it. The crew at Barrett was great to work with, and fed me as much thick, black coffee as I could stand. That's the extent of my kickback!



On Aug 6, 2006, at 10:15 AM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Good point!  I meant as in no under the table transfer of funds for my endorsement.  

 

Michael

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Marc CookSent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:49 AMTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

 

Bart does great work.

 



What do you mean by "kick backs"?



 



 

On Aug 5, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Mark Ritter wrote:

DITTO for Bart at Aero Sport.  Great reputation and good folks to do business with. No kick backs either.

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:27 am Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

One of the point (or points) that may be of value considering is the tolerance in Gram/Inches of each component and an actual hard copy Dyno run upon complete assembly.  The playing field can get pretty level when you add roller tappets, hybrid electronic ignition, an improved fuel servo, light weight starter/alternator, tuned custom welded exhaust headers, choice of epoxy enamel color, 1 gram/inch balance and a true Dyno Printout of your “pride and joy” once the dollars begin to flow.  Track record helps too.  

   

John Cox  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Cook

 Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:26 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE  

  

   

Got it. The crew at Barrett was great to work with, and fed me as much thick, black coffee as I could stand. That's the extent of my kickback!    

   

    

       

On Aug 6, 2006, at 10:15 AM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:  

  



 

     

   

       

owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Marc Cook

 Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:49 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE  

  

  

   

Bart does great work.    

   

    

What do you mean by "kick backs"?  

    

   

    

       

On Aug 5, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Mark Ritter wrote:  

  



 

 

     

DITTO for Bart at Aero Sport.  Great reputation and good folks to do business with. No kick backs either.

DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

I've seen the term "LOP" operation used.  Can0 you explain?

  

 Dave Leikam

 RV-10 N89DA 

 #40496 - elevators

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:28 pm Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

I'll give it a shot!

 Two terms LOP and ROP refer to ability to lean below and above peak EGT.  Most of us are familiar with 'lean till it stumbles and enrichen till it smoothes out again" ..... which is ROP ..... Rich Of Peak.

 

 LOP or Lean Of Peak is operating above the peak ..... continuing leaning until EGT drops off.

 

 LOP operation is near impossible with a carbureted fuel system because distance to the cylinder, varying flow rates and venturi atomization ..... all conspire to make some cylinders run leaner than others.  The cylinders will not all peak at the same time.  

 

 LOP almost requires an injected fuel system, and GAMI (there's also an experimental injector whose name escapes me right now) makes a big business out of controlling the flow in individual injectors to even out the flow to all cylinders ...... allowing LOP operation.

 

 That's the thumbnail explanation!

 Linn

 

 do not archive

 DAVE LEIKAM wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		                 (at)font-face { 	font-family: Tahoma; } (at)page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; } P.MsoNormal { 	FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { 	FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { 	FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { 	COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { 	COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { 	COLOR: #ff8040; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { 	COLOR: #ff8040; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.EmailStyle17 { 	COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } DIV.Section1 { 	page: Section1 }        I've seen the term "LOP" operation used.  Can  you explain?

      

     Dave Leikam

     RV-10 N89DA 

     #40496 - elevators

      

     do not archive

      	  Quote: 	
		           ----- Original Message ----- 

         From:    John W.    Cox (johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com) 

         To:     rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

         Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 12:13    PM

         Subject: RE: Kitplanes article    on the Lyc 390X and BPE

         

     

                 

I have no horse in    this race either but friends I respect have all seconded the choice of    Barrett.  For those inclined towards LOP operations, you will find GAMI    is supportive as well.  That was a great article in    Kitplanes.         

          

John    Cox         

                             

         

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael    Sausen)

     Sent: Saturday,    August 05, 2006 8:03 AM

     To:    rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

     Subject: Kitplanes article on    the Lyc 390X and BPE     

         

                  

  Everyone knows that I'm a    proponent of Barrett Precision Engines and I think they do great work but    there is an article in this months Kitplanes that gives some good information    on BPE and why they would make a good choice for anyone that is looking for an    engine.     

                 

      

                 

  I am in no way    affiliated with them and have received no kickbacks (other than a beer Allen    bought me at Airventure) nor did I receive any breaks for having my engine on    display at OSH.  I am simply very impressed with their customer service    and ability to be straight shooters when it comes to questions on their    engines.  Ask Allen what he thinks about me putting dual LSE III    ignitions on sometime.       

                 

      

                 

  If someone would like a    copy of the article, email me offline and I'll shoot you a    copy.     

                 

      

                 

Michael    Sausen

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

LOP = Lean of Peak.  Normally we are taught to set the mixture a0 certain amount rich of peak temperature (say 50 degrees).  Thus, you0 run rich, more gas is used to cool the engine cylinders some.  Too rich and0 you begin fouling the plugs.  So it was nice when you had a CHT in the plan0 to help with setting rich of peak rather than just dialing it back after hitting0 the spot when the engine began to run rough.  

  

 With fuel injectors, especially the GAMI type, ones that are balanced, it0 is possible to set the mixture LEAN of peak.  This was a no-no until you0 had more accurate fuel control and measurement per cylinder.  It gives0 better performance and lowers fuel consumption, but it can also damage an engine0 and is not recommended if you use a carburetor.  

  

 There is still debate about this technique, but you can find out more0 about it if you Google GAMI injectors and go from there. 0 

  

 John J

  

 do not archive



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com0 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVE0 LEIKAM

Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 4:15 PM

To:0 rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on0 the Lyc 390X and BPE

 

 I've seen the term "LOP" operation used.  Can0 you explain?

  

 Dave Leikam

 RV-10 N89DA 

 #40496 - elevators

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

armywrights(at)adelphia.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

Marc,  

   

Nice to see such a high-level interest in our forum.  How’s the Sportsman running?  

   

Rob Wright  

#392  

QB Wings  

Do not archive  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Cook

 Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 1:26 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE  

  

   

Got it. The crew at Barrett was great to work with, and fed me as much thick, black coffee as I could stand. That's the extent of my kickback!    

   

    

       

On Aug 6, 2006, at 10:15 AM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:  

  



 

         

owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Marc Cook

 Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:49 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE  

  

  

Bart does great work.    

What do you mean by "kick backs"?  

        

On Aug 5, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Mark Ritter wrote:  

  



 

 

     

DITTO for Bart at Aero Sport. Great reputation and good folks to do business with. No kick backs either.

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

As you increase the mixture control from Idle Cutoff off to greater richness, the EGT indicates the increase in exhaust gas temperature as the ratio of fuel to air increase.  Hence, ROP is on the rich of Peak side once the temperature MAXs and you continue the control of fuel to air, you go over to LEAN of PEAK, hence LOP.  The danger zone for detonation and internal damage is within 50 degrees ROP to 50 degrees LOP where cylinder pressures are their greatest.  At 75% Lean of Peak the CHT and EGT comes down and you fly a more frugal fuel:air mixture. It is not for the faint of heart, it is not for climb configuration (need for maximum power) it is not for aircraft without EGT probes on each of your cylinders.  

   

With the reduction in EGT usually comes reduction in CHT and extended component life for pistons, cam lobes, exhaust valves and seats and other oil cooled components which begin to COKE up with higher temperatures.  The Lycoming features sodium filled valves which do a better job of heat transfer to the valve seat than a Continental.  Control of spark intensity and timing event all come together to increase temperature of the fuel:air mixture which can lead to Detonation.  We each have individual opinions on LOP/ROP and timing devices.  Detonation always wins the discussion.  Aluminum does not do well in the 400 degree range so LOP fans are growing in popularity.  GAMI gives classes to ole mechanics and FAA types who misunderstand the black magic.  

   

FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) takes all of this away and hides that and the mixture lever beyond the reach of pilots. Or KISS – Keep it Simple Stupid pilot control.  

   

John Cox  

N49CX – 40600  

Do not Archive  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVE LEIKAM

 Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 4:15 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE  

  

     

I've seen the term "LOP" operation used.  Can you explain?  

    

   

    

Dave Leikam  

    

RV-10 N89DA   

    

#40496 - elevators  

    

   

    

do not archive  

  [quote]    

---

jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

The other two posts cover most of the question, but I will share what I have learned as well, a little.  It is becoming quite widely agreed-upon that LOP is acceptable.  I won’t speak to Carbureted engines, since I have no experience there.  Of course, leaning can be more evenly controlled if the injectors are matched in a way that each cylinder is getting fuel delivered to it in a way that EGT’s peak at the same time.  GAMI’s do this, but it can be done with just about any system where you can get different sized injectors to allow more or less fuel into the cylinders.  

   

There seem to be two ways to run lean of peak safely (there may be others, but this should cover most situations).  First is flow-matched injectors and second is low power settings.  With flow-matched injectors, as mentioned, you have much less variation in EGT’s between cylinders so you can get an accurate, say 50 degrees LOP without going too lean on some cylinders and causing problems.  This is very nicely monitored with an engine monitor that gives you CHT and EGT on all cylinders.  The other way (these two can be combined, of course) is to run at lower power settings.  At high power settings, say 65% and higher, you can damage your cylinders if you run too lean.  At lower power settings, though, it is becoming more widely agreed that you can run quite lean without damage.  You do lose some power as you go lean of peak, but your fuel flows go down substantially (you also lose power as you go too rich of peak, where you fuel flows go up substantially).  In fact, it shouldn’t cause any damage to your engine at low power settings to lean almost to the point of the engine running rough.  This makes for relatively economical flying when absolute speed can be traded for economy (which is a huge issue these days with fuel prices where they are).  Also, a great way to get power settings down without sacrificing too much in cruise performance is to fly high.  For example, in an normally aspirated IO-540, at 12,000 feet or so, you will not be able to get much over 50% power if that, so you can lean aggressively and achieve great economy.  

   

Again, the thing that is making this type of flying much more prevalent now is the use of more Injected engines and the availability of engine monitoring systems that give accurate CHT, EGT and Fuel Flow information.  

     

Jesse Saint  

I-TEC, Inc.  

jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)  

www.itecusa.org  

W: 352-465-4545  

C: 352-427-0285  

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVE LEIKAM

 Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:15 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE  

  

     

I've seen the term "LOP" operation used.  Can you explain?  

    

   

    

Dave Leikam  

    

RV-10 N89DA   

    

#40496 - elevators  

    

   

    

do not archive  

  [quote]    

---

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

Linn:



Not to be picky, but "Lean Of Peak is operating above the peak" is a little miscontrued.  (How does one get above a peak?)



Best way to word it is probably Lean of Peak is fuel/air mixtures leaner than that at the peak EGT, while Rich of Peak is fuel/air mixtures richer than that at the peak EGT.  Since usually the only way to tell fuel/air mixture in the cockpit is by fuel flow, you could also say Lean of Peak is fuel flow less than that at the peak EGT, while Rich of Peak is fuel flow higher than that at the peak EGT.  All of the Lycoming engine operating manuals have a generic graph that shows the drop off of EGT by fuel flow on each side of the peak. 0



Just remember, pretty much all engine manufacturers recommend that leaning only be conducted below 75% power.  Below that level, you're pretty safe from doing any damage to the engine.



TDT

40025

--

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE

Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  Linn:



Not to be picky, but "Lean Of Peak is operating above the peak" is a little miscontrued.  (How does one get above a peak?) 	
 	
 Aw, picky, picky anyway!   

 You're right though, it could have been worded better ..... which is why I added "continuing leaning until EGT drops off"  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  Best way to word it is probably Lean of Peak is fuel/air mixtures leaner than that at the peak EGT, while Rich of Peak is fuel/air mixtures richer than that at the peak EGT.  Since usually the only way to tell fuel/air mixture in the cockpit is by fuel flow, you could also say Lean of Peak is fuel flow less than that at the peak EGT, while Rich of Peak is fuel flow higher than that at the peak EGT.  All of the Lycoming engine operating manuals have a generic graph that shows the drop off of EGT by fuel flow on each side of the peak.  



Just remember, pretty much all engine manufacturers recommend that leaning only be conducted below 75% power.  Below that level, you're pretty safe from doing any damage to the engine. 	
 	
 I'm an advocate of leaning ALL THE TIME.  You have to remember that almost all the operating conditions the engine manufacturers make are based on their certification.  There is a lot of CYA there.  Our engines aren't anything to crow about technically.  I run the dog crap out of my engine (wonder how THAT got in there???   ) in the Pitts ....... on mogas ..... but that's another food fight ...... without any noticeable ill effects.  I think that after 25 years SOMETHING would have shown up!!!  Now, don't get me wrong ..... I'm not saying either aggressive leaning or mogas is for everyone ...... it just works for me.

 Linn

 do not archive

 [quote]   [quote]  TDT 40025   --

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