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Ammeter question

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bertrv6(at)highstream.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: Ammeter question

Hi:



All you experts in electrical....here is the question..

when I turn the  master switch, if I load any of the switches, such

as Taxi lights or  Strobes  anything at all, the Ammeter, shows Charge..

that is needle goes to Positive...should be to discharge, negative.



UP to last week,, everything was fine....since First flight....



It does same when Running engine... everything else seems to be fine/..



What say you....I should check...how to correct this.



Thanks

Bert



rv6a



flying



do not archive

jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject: Ammeter question

bertrv6(at)highstream.net wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

Hi:



All you experts in electrical....here is the question..

when I turn the  master switch, if I load any of the switches, such

as Taxi lights or  Strobes  anything at all, the Ammeter, shows Charge..

that is needle goes to Positive...should be to discharge, negative.



UP to last week,, everything was fine....since First flight....



It does same when Running engine... everything else seems to be fine/..



What say you....I should check...how to correct this.



Thanks

Bert



rv6a



flying



do not archive





  



As I understand it an ammeter should go higher the more things you turn 
	


on, it is measuring the amp load on the system.



Jerry

do not archive

dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject: Ammeter question

If it's a meter with a "0" center and reads + and -, then it should go left or negative with stuff turned on and the engine not running. When the battery is fully charged and the engine is running it should read about zero or to the + side if the battery is low like just after a start. This kind of ammeter shows the current flowing in and out of the battery, the other kind that reads from 0 on the left and 80 or whatever your max is, is telling you what current is coming out of the alternator.

 I don't see how it could have reversed it's reading unless someone changed something (like re-connected the shunt backwards) assuming that it's just a simple analog ammeter. If it's a digital device of some kind, then I don't have a clue.

 

 Dave

 

 Jerry Springer wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> (jsflyrv(at)verizon.net)   

   

 bertrv6(at)highstream.net (bertrv6(at)highstream.net) wrote:   

   

    	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6(at)highstream.net (bertrv6(at)highstream.net)     

     

     

 Hi:     

     

 All you experts in electrical....here is the question..     

 when I turn the  master switch, if I load any of the switches, such     

 as Taxi lights or  Strobes  anything at all, the Ammeter, shows Charge..     

 that is needle goes to Positive...should be to discharge, negative.     

     

 UP to last week,, everything was fine....since First flight....     

     

 It does same when Running engine... everything else seems to be fine/..     

     

 What say you....I should check...how to correct this.     

     

 Thanks     

     

     

 Bert     

     

 rv6a     

     

 flying     

     

 do not archive     

     

     

     

     

       

     

   	
 As I understand it an ammeter should go higher the more things you turn on, it is measuring the amp load on the system.   

   

 Jerry   

 do not archive

dan.beadle(at)inclinesoft
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: Ammeter question

It depends where you put the ammeter in the system.



If you put it between the ammeter and the buss, it is measuring the output

from the ammeter - should go higher with more things turned on.  This style

never goes negative.  But if it is on the b lead between the buss and the

main starter feed, it measures current into / out of the battery. In that

case, it should read negative when you turn on a load but don't have the

engine running.  It should read positive after start as the alternator

recharges the battery, then it should go to zero as the battery stops taking

charge.



--

FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: Ammeter question

In a message dated 8/11/06 4:41:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 

bertrv6(at)highstream.net writes:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi:

  

  All you experts in electrical....here is the question..

  when I turn the  master switch, if I load any of the switches, such

  as Taxi lights or  Strobes  anything at all, the Ammeter, shows Charge..

  that is needle goes to Positive...should be to discharge, negative.

  

  UP to last week,, everything was fine....since First flight....

  

  It does same when Running engine... everything else seems to be fine/..

  

  What say you....I should check...how to correct this.

  

  Thanks

  

  

  Bert

=========================
	


Bert:



I'm guessing here but I would say that last week you had the same problem but 

you missed it.  Sounds like the problem is the ammeter is installed 

backwards.  



If it isn't they you are missing something or not telling us the entire story.



Engine OFF

Master ON

Lights ON 

AMMETER should show a DISCHARGE

  Turn the Lights OFF

    Start the engine 

    Turn LIGHTS ON

    AMMETER should show a CHARGE



Gots to ax a dumb question ... The Ammeter does show in BOTH directions ... 

charge and discharge?  

I know dumb, but had the same question asked about a meter that ONLY showed 

CHARGED direction.

Barry

"Chop'd Liver"



"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third 

time." 

Yamashiada

dorante(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: Ammeter question

Bert:

  In order to diagnose your problem, it would be very helpful to

measure system voltage.  Put a voltmeter across the battery.  A fully

charged batter should measure 12.0 - 12.5 VDC.  Without the engine

running, and some load, the voltage should start to drop.  After

starting the engine, the voltage should go up to 13.5 to 14.5VDC.  This

is the output voltage of the alternator (regulated).  Increase the load

on the electrical system by turning on landing lights, and other large

loads, and the voltage should not change, maybe a slight drop.

  I have had problems with automotive ammeters. Some use a shunt

resistor, and others pass the BATT wire through a coil.  The latter

type I have found to be troublesome because they require a straight

length of wire going through the coil.  

  I have found two very useful, inexpensive tools for troubleshooting

charging system problems.  First, a voltage/charging indicator using 3

LED's that plugs into a cigarette lighter.  Radio Shack used to sell

these for about $10.  The good thing about this is that you do not have

to be near the prop to record voltage.  Second, a DC clamp on ammeter

that can be placed on a battery cable.  This ammeter is not real

accurate, but it will show current direction and magnitude.   I got

mine from Sears years ago. 

  When I finish my RV-6A, I will have only a Voltmeter in the panel. 

Voltage is a much better indicator of battery health and charging

system operation than an ammeter.  IMHO, ammeters are almost useless.



Hope this helps.  



Tom

bertrv6(at)highstream.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: Ammeter question

Quoting "D.Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net>:



 	  Quote: 	
		   If it's a meter with a "0" center and reads + and -, then it should go

 left or negative with stuff turned on and the engine not running. When

 the battery is fully charged and the engine is running it should read

 about zero or to the + side if the battery is low like just after a

 start. This kind of ammeter shows the current flowing in and out of the

 battery, the other kind that reads from 0 on the left and 80 or whatever

 your max is, is telling you what current is coming out of the alternator.

 I don't see how it could have reversed it's reading unless someone

 changed something (like re-connected the shunt backwards) assuming that

 it's just a simple analog ammeter. If it's a digital device of some

 kind, then I don't have a clue.



 Dave

    This is my surprise too...I got other e mails, some suggest that

the battery is the problem,, I do not know why this would be..
	


I will keep checking around, is a challenging mistery...



thanks



bert

 	  Quote: 	
		   Jerry Springer wrote:



 > 

 >

 > bertrv6(at)highstream.net wrote:

 >

 >> 

 >>

 >>

 >> Hi:

 >>

 >> All you experts in electrical....here is the question..

 >> when I turn the  master switch, if I load any of the switches, such

 >> as Taxi lights or  Strobes  anything at all, the Ammeter, shows Charge..

 >> that is needle goes to Positive...should be to discharge, negative.

 >>

 >> UP to last week,, everything was fine....since First flight....

 >>

 >> It does same when Running engine... everything else seems to be fine/..

 >>

 >> What say you....I should check...how to correct this.

 >>

 >> Thanks

 >>

 >>

 >> Bert

 >>

 >> rv6a

 >>

 >> flying

 >>

 >> do not archive

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >>

 > As I understand it an ammeter should go higher the more things you

 > turn on, it is measuring the amp load on the system.

 >

 > Jerry

 > do not archive

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject: Ammeter question

Bert,

 

 The battery can't cause this kind of problem. If you're using a "standard" type of ammeter with an internal or external shunt, it almost has to be a wiring error. Maybe you just didn't notice it before.

 

 Dave B.  -6 So Cal

 Eaa Technical Counselor 

 

 

 

 bertrv6(at)highstream.net (bertrv6(at)highstream.net) wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		        	  Quote: 	
		  

   This is my surprise too...I got other e mails, some suggest that

    	
   the battery is the problem,, I do not know why this would be..

I will keep checking around, is a challenging mistery...



thanks



bert

        	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		            	  Quote: 	
		  

Hi:



All you experts in electrical....here is the question..

when I turn the  master switch, if I load any of the switches, such

as Taxi lights or  Strobes  anything at all, the Ammeter, shows Charge..

that is needle goes to Positive...should be to discharge, negative.



UP to last week,, everything was fine....since First flight....



It does same when Running engine... everything else seems to be fine/..



What say you....I should check...how to correct this.

bertrv6(at)highstream.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: Ammeter question

Quoting "D.Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net>:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Bert,



 The battery can't cause this kind of problem. If you're using a

 "standard" type of ammeter with an internal or external shunt, it almost

 has to be a wiring error. Maybe you just didn't notice it before.



 Dave B.  -6 So Cal

 Eaa Technical Counselor



 Thanks Dave:


	


Everything was working fine, since first flight, I will let you know when

the A &P come over to check.. If was working before. Is only 2 wires to

the ammeter a + land -..if you reverse them, tha is it for the gauge. I will

bes ruined...



So that is not the problem...



Bert

 	  Quote: 	
		   bertrv6(at)highstream.net wrote:



 >>   This is my surprise too...I got other e mails, some suggest that

 >>

 >>

 >the battery is the problem,, I do not know why this would be..

 >I will keep checking around, is a challenging mistery...

 >

 >thanks

 >

 >bert

 >

 >

 >>>>Hi:

 >>>>

 >>>>All you experts in electrical....here is the question..

 >>>>when I turn the  master switch, if I load any of the switches, such

 >>>>as Taxi lights or  Strobes  anything at all, the Ammeter, shows Charge..

 >>>>that is needle goes to Positive...should be to discharge, negative.

 >>>>

 >>>>UP to last week,, everything was fine....since First flight....

 >>>>

 >>>>It does same when Running engine... everything else seems to be fine/..

 >>>>

 >>>>What say you....I should check...how to correct this.

 >>>>

 >>>>

 >>>>

 >>>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

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dorante(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:43 am Post subject: Ammeter question

Bert:



In your email, you said "Is only 2 wires to

the ammeter a + land -..if you reverse them, tha is it for the gauge. I

will

bes ruined..."



Reversing the wires on the ammeter will not ruin it.  It will only make

the ammeter indicate backwards.



A full current ammeter is wired in-line with the main load wire from

the battery. All current going into or out of the battery must go

through this wire,except the starter motor, which is wired in parallel.

 The ammeter would be overloaded trying to measure the hundreds of amps

of starter current.  I have seen some charging circuits that have the

ammeter leads connecting to the voltage regulator.  This is used so

that full current is not going through the ammeter.  If this is the

case in your RV, the regulator could be at fault.  I recommended in an

earlier email checking system voltage, with and without engine running.

 If you were able to do this, how were your readings?



I hope the A&P can help you.  Let's us know how your problem was solved.



TOM

dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: Ammeter question

Reversing the wires to the gauge (or the shunt) will not harm it, it will just read backwards.

 

 Dave

 

 bertrv6(at)highstream.net (bertrv6(at)highstream.net) wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6(at)highstream.net (bertrv6(at)highstream.net)



Quoting "D.Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net> (dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net):



        	  Quote: 	
		  Bert,



The battery can't cause this kind of problem. If you're using a

"standard" type of ammeter with an internal or external shunt, it almost

has to be a wiring error. Maybe you just didn't notice it before.



Dave B.  -6 So Cal

Eaa Technical Counselor



Thanks Dave:

    	
   

Everything was working fine, since first flight, I will let you know when

the A &P come over to check.. If was working before. Is only 2 wires to

the ammeter a + land -..if you reverse them, tha is it for the gauge. I will

bes ruined...



So that is not the problem...



Bert

        	  Quote: 	
		  bertrv6(at)highstream.net (bertrv6(at)highstream.net) wrote:



            	  Quote: 	
		            	  Quote: 	
		    This is my surprise too...I got other e mails, some suggest that

        	
       the battery is the problem,, I do not know why this would be..

I will keep checking around, is a challenging mistery...



thanks



bert

                	  Quote: 	
		              	  Quote: 	
		                	  Quote: 	
		  Hi:



All you experts in electrical....here is the question..

when I turn the  master switch, if I load any of the switches, such

as Taxi lights or  Strobes  anything at all, the Ammeter, shows Charge..

that is needle goes to Positive...should be to discharge, negative.



UP to last week,, everything was fine....since First flight....



It does same when Running engine... everything else seems to be fine/..



What say you....I should check...how to correct this.

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