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georgewells(at)adelphia.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:50 am Post subject: Insurance

Does any one have a good source for Liability  insurance on a Model 5

 Thanks

    [quote][b]

scott(at)lifeseeker.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:20 am Post subject: Insurance

I just signed up with Avemco. 800-638-8440.



$1,000,000 liability for $572/year. Model IV.



Scott Patterson

runwayrex(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:32 am Post subject: Insurance

Falcon Insurance has been good for me for the past seven years. Well, they've taken my money and fortunately, I haven't needed any of it back. Their prices have been lower than the other guys I checked with though and they have an outdoor booth at Oshkosh where you can renew each year. I like the fact that they show at "Kosh. That's my input, for what it's worth. 

Rex in Michigan 

  

  



-- "George Wells(at)adelphia.net" <georgewells(at)adelphia.net> wrote:

  Does any one have a good source for Liability insurance on a Model 5

 Thanks

[quote]



====================================

">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

====================================

tronics.com

====================================

ics.com

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www.matronics.com/contribution

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[b]

Glenn Horne

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 96

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:46 am Post subject: Insurance

Just bought some for my Model II.

 $524.00 for 1 year. AUA Greensboro  N.C.

 Glenn Horne Suffolk, Va 582

 [quote]   ---

runwayrex(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: Insurance

With Falcon, I'm paying $969 for liability plus $30,000 value of full coverage. I had checked with Avemco and they were much higher. Why not call both and compare for what you'd like. 

Rex in Michigan 



-- Scott Patterson <scott(at)lifeseeker.com> wrote:

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott Patterson <scott(at)lifeseeker.com>



I just signed up with Avemco. 800-638-8440.



$1,000,000 liability for $572================================================    - The Kitfox-List Email Foruist utilities such as the Subscriptions pa================================================sp;     - NEW MATRONICS WEB&nbsp================================================       - NEW MATRONICS&nbsp================================================sp;    - List Contribution Web Snbsp;                      -Matt&n==================================================

   [quote][b]

eccles(at)Chartermi.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject: Insurance

Avemco  insures the Kitfox

 [quote]   --

jimmieblackwell(at)sbcglo
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject: Insurance

I checked Avemco today.  Compared to Falcon,  Avemco is a little cheaper for liability, but almost 3 times as high for hull coverage.



eccles <eccles(at)Chartermi.net> wrote:  [quote]        Avemco insures the Kitfox

  [quote]  --

ofd725(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: Insurance

George,

   

  I just bound coverage on my S7 with Falcon. Avemco was $3400 for the same coverage. I can't tell you why but they weren't even in the ballpark. Here is part of my contract. I insured the plane for $30,000 value (I think that is a bit under valued, but we won't go into that subject as it seems to be a hot potato!). I have 0 time in a kitfox.

   

  Hull Value Hull Coverage Hull Deductible Liability Medical

Breach of Warranty Loss Payee

$30,000 Full Flight $100 $500K/$100K $3,000 

   _____

  PREMIUM

Liability = $499

Medical = $12

Hull = $985

Total Premium = $1,496

PILOT REQUIREMENTS

Pilot Name Dual Hours Required Solo Hours Required

GARY T OLSON      1                         2



eccles <eccles(at)Chartermi.net> wrote:

  [quote]        Avemco insures the Kitfox

  [quote]  --

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: Insurance

Gary,

     I have always had Falcon.   Like you I probably underinsured a bit.  I have $20K hull with the standard  $1mil liability.  My total premiums are about $1100. per year.  When I  got mine, they accepted 5 hours "RIDING" in a kitfox and not being PIC.  I  even went back to them and explained that I had NO training and NO PIC time in a  Kitfox.  They said, the 5 hours I had looked good enough for them.  I  was a bit surprised.  However, since then I've heard that many pilots are  getting stuck with more requirements than they required of me.  I didn't  quite understand what they wanted from you in order to insure?

  

 Don Smythe

 [quote]   ---

ofd725(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: Insurance

Don,

   

  It would appear to me that I am on my own for the first couple of hours. Your right, it doesn't make much sense to me either.



Don Smythe <dosmythe(at)cox.net> wrote:

  [quote]        Gary,

      I have always had Falcon.  Like you I probably underinsured a bit.  I have $20K hull with the standard $1mil liability.  My total premiums are about $1100. per year.  When I got mine, they accepted 5 hours "RIDING" in a kitfox and not being PIC.  I even went back to them and explained that I had NO training and NO PIC time in a Kitfox.  They said, the 5 hours I had looked good enough for them.  I was a bit surprised.  However, since  then I've heard that many pilots are getting stuck with more requirements than they required of me.  I didn't quite understand what they wanted from you in order to insure?

   

  Don Smythe

  [quote]  ---

kirkhull(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: Insurance

I just got ins from the EAA ( I believe they use Falcon ) for my Classic VI about 2 months ago.  My test pilot had 1200 pic and 600 tail wheel.  They required 0 time in type for him.  I have 250 pic (legal , flying with my dad for 2  million hours doesn’t  count ) with 6 tail wheel.  They required me to have 10 with an instructor in type and 10 solo in type.  However I did have coverage while I did these ( instructor time first ).  The only bad thing is that they would not cover my Stepfather and co-builder for sport pilot training.  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Olson

 Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 7:26 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Insurance  

  

     

Don,  

    

   

    

It would appear to me that I am on my own for the first couple of hours. Your right, it doesn't make much sense to me either.

 

 Don Smythe <dosmythe(at)cox.net> wrote:  

  [quote]    

Gary,  

    

    I have always had Falcon.  Like you I probably underinsured a bit.  I have $20K hull with the standard $1mil liability.  My total premiums are about $1100. per year.  When I got mine, they accepted 5 hours "RIDING" in a kitfox and not being PIC.  I even went back to them and explained that I had NO training and NO PIC time in a Kitfox.  They said, the 5 hours I had looked good enough for them.  I was a bit surprised.  However, since then I've heard that many pilots are getting stuck with more requirements than they required of me.  I didn't quite understand what they wanted from you in order to insure?  

    

   

    

Don Smythe  

  [quote]    

---

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:27 am Post subject: Insurance

Scott sez:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I just signed up with Avemco. 800-638-8440.

$1,000,000 liability for $572/year. Model IV.


	


I'd like to point out something about the insurance policies many of 

us have on our airplanes.  If you read the fine print you may 

discover that, although you have a million dollars in liability 

coverage, it is limited to a fairly low value, typically $100,000, 

per seat.  In other words, if you smash into someone's house and 

injure their child, the full million will be paid out.  If, on the 

other hand, the child was in the plane with you, it will only pay out 

the one hundred thousand per seat.



This came into play when the medical expenses for the passenger who 

was with me when I had my accident climbed above $100,000--it can 

happen quite easily these days!  Luckily for me, my insurance company 

worked with my passenger to negotiate the medical expenses down below 

the covered amount, otherwise I would have been personally liable for 

the difference.



When the policy came up for renewal on my Piper Turbo Arrow this 

time, we paid a little bit more for what is called "smooth coverage," 

i.e., a policy with no per-seat limits.  In my opinion, if you fly 

with passengers much, it's worth the extra few dollars.



Mike G.

N728KF

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:03 am Post subject: Insurance

The way I've heard it is that once you are quoted a price for  

insurance, that quote is fed out to all the insurance companies, and  

they all will then "honor" that quote. In other words, you are locked  

into that quote figure with all the insurers. I've heard this from  

several sources...is it true?



Lynn

On Thursday, August 24, 2006, at 03:53  PM, Rexster wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   With Falcon, I'm paying $969 for liability plus $30,000 value of full  

 coverage. I had checked with Avemco and they were much higher. Why not  

 call both and compare for what you'd like.



 Rex in Michigan 



 -- Scott Patterson <scott(at)lifeseeker.com> wrote:

 --> Kitfox- 

 List message posted by: Scott Patterson <scott(at)lifeseeker.com>



 I just signed up with Avemco. 800-638-8440.



 $1,000,000 liability for $572========================================== 

 ======    - The Kitfox- 

 List Email Foruist utilities such as the Subscriptions pa============== 

 ==================================sp;     - NEW MATRONICS WEB ========= 

 =======================================       - NEW MATRONICS ========= 

 =======================================sp;    - List Contribution Web S 

 nbsp;                      - 

 Matt&n==================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: Insurance

Lynn sez:



 	  Quote: 	
		  The way I've heard it is that once you are quoted a price for 

insurance, that quote is fed out to all the insurance companies, and 

they all will then "honor" that quote.


	


Sounds like price-fixing, which sounds illegal.



Many insurance brokers will shop around for quotes each year for you. 

If the various underwriters shared pricing there would be no point in 

such an activity, right?



Then again, the insurance world is heavily regulated (in the U.S. 

anyway) and the rules may be different.  I'm not a lawyer, nor do I 

play one on T.V.



Mike G.

N728KF

bmwebb(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:06 pm Post subject: Insurance

As a matter of fact, it is. The aviation insurance biz is quite a bit

different than auto or home insurance.



Once a request for quote is made, the major underwriters will associate your

name and N-number, and that quote will be all you get for 12 months. You

need to really know your agent, and shop for agents to make sure they get

the right info and know what questions to ask. Once your name and n-number

are in the "system", you are locked, and it is very hard, nay impossible, to

change until that year is up.



If your agent is, well, less than the pointy end of the spear, you could

really get hosed. If he doesn't pass on all of your hours, for example, and

the underwriting agencies "mis-quote" you a high, unreasonable price, you're

toast. It will not be changed in 99% of the cases. Shopping for another

agent will do you no good.



Very important to get to know your agent, and find one you can trust. How

you do that is anybodies guess, in most cases. Word of mouth is huge in this

business.

Bradley

--

bmwebb(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: Insurance

Its not really price fixing, it's just an archaic way of looking at the biz.

The coverage's mature, as all do, but the quoting process is bizarre, and

about 40 years in the past.



Bradley



--

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: Insurance

Bradley sez:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Once a request for quote is made, the major underwriters will 

associate your name and N-number, and that quote will be all you get 

for 12 months.


	


How is it that my broker got me a half dozen quotes for the first 

year and they were all different?



Mike G.

N728KF

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject: Insurance

The way I understand this is that a broker for a company - falcon, for 

example - will not quote as long as you are currently with another Falcon 

broker.  It is a professional courtesy thing.  I found this with Falcon when 

I was unhappy with my current broker - he kept forgetting to send me the 

renewal package and I went without insurance for three months once and I 

discovered it by accident - not the real kind, thankfully.



During the search, I also found that, at least for me, EAA insurance was 

significantly higher than straight Falcon, as it was explained, some EAAers 

have airplanes that are difficult to insure and the rest of us are "taxed" 

to help level the field.  Not necessary to mention, I didn't go through EAA 

for the insurance.   I don't feel compelled to help insure the winged 

doghouse powered by the B$S.



Lowell



---

kirkhull(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject: Insurance

AN insurance broker will shop the underwriters for the best price for a

given risk ( pilot/ aircraft). Sence there are very few aircraft insurers/

underwriters most brokers check all of them.  If you get a quote from one

broker they should give you the price from the underwriter with the best

price.  Then if you check with another broker and he shops the same

underwriters and quotes you the best price it would be the same as the first

quote.  Most underwriters will save your info for sometime so if you ask for

another quote they will spit out the same one so they do not have to run the

#'s again.



--

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