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Transponder

 
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Dennis Jones



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Poplar Grove, IL

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:40 pm    Post subject: Transponder Reply with quote

What is a strobe output/input for a transponder/encoder?

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:18 am    Post subject: Transponder Reply with quote

At 10:40 PM 9/19/2006 -0700, you wrote:

Quote:

<djones(at)northboone.net>

What is a strobe output/input for a transponder/encoder?


"Strobe" or "blanking" pins are included in some
systems that transmit and/or receive high-power
pulses on adjacent frequencies. For example, transponders
and DME on airplanes use these signal lines to
put temporary earplugs in the ears of another system
while it's "shouting" to the ground station.

I wish my neighbor's dog came with a strobe signal
that would shut off my ears for the duration of each
bark.

This courtesy signal traded between potentially
antagonist/victim systems allows them to co-exist
on the same airplane while minimizing degraded
performance from receiver overload when one of
the transmitters "shouts".

Bob . . .

---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------


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Dennis Jones



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Poplar Grove, IL

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Transponder Reply with quote

The transponder schematic shows a suppression OUT pin 1 and a EXT. DME suppression IN pin 6. Because I do not have a DME I understand that both of these pins would be empty. Would this be what the encoder schematic is showing as the strobe input? If so then this pin would not be used and would be pigtailed to the ground pin.[/list]

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dave(at)abrahamson.net
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:25 am    Post subject: Transponder Reply with quote

My AK350 would not provide data to my GTX330 until I grounded the pin
the AK350 instructions say to ground for a non-strobed transponder.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:03 am    Post subject: Transponder Reply with quote

At 07:24 AM 9/21/2006 -0400, you wrote:

Quote:


My AK350 would not provide data to my GTX330 until I grounded the pin the
AK350 instructions say to ground for a non-strobed transponder.


Thank you for jumping in here Dave! It's been a long
time since I've built a T2000/AK350 harness so when
I went to the instruction manual last night I just
searched the .pdf for "strobe" and the program jumped
to page 24 where I read:
------------------
"The Altitude Reporter AK-350 is remote mounted equipment
that is fully automatic in operation. The companion
ATC transponder normally controls the operation of hte
Altitude Reporter by automatically enabling or disabling
its operation.

This is done by pulling-up to logic LOW (to enable)
or pulling-down to logic HIGH (to disable) the STROBE
(pin 6) line of the Altitude Reporter."
------------------

Hmmm . . . NORMALLY in electro-speak, one pulls a line
DOWN for logic LO and pulls UP for logic HI. I stumbled
over the words in the paragraph and then recalled that
in some interface wiring, inverting buffers are used
between internal electronics and outside world wiring.
Outside the box, logic LO is in fact a higher voltage
than logic HI which is ground.

So, I sailed around what appeared to be a rational
condition. Now, as Dave has suggested, the WIRING
DIAGRAMS earlier in the manual are quite specific for
treatment of the STROBE line when the companion
transponder doesn't need it: the line is firmly attached
to ground.

I do recall now that when I was selling the T2000
MicroAir and associated harness to mate with the AK350,
the pink wire in the harness was paired with the
ground wire to the transponder.

It's always helpful to have more than one head pondering
meanings to at least raise valid questions if not
point out blatant errors. Had I reached past the search
engine and reviewed the wiring diagrams, the error of
my earlier understanding would have been obvious.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is a micro-example of
a good critical design review. Understanding of words,
and ordinary errors can be impediments to progress.
Dave gets the "Atta Boy" nod for the day.

Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:16 am    Post subject: Transponder Reply with quote

At 07:24 AM 9/21/2006 -0400, you wrote:

Quote:


My AK350 would not provide data to my GTX330 until I grounded the pin the
AK350 instructions say to ground for a non-strobed transponder.


Thank you for jumping in here Dave! It's been a long
time since I've built a T2000/AK350 harness so when
I went to the instruction manual last night I just
searched the .pdf for "strobe" and the program jumped
to page 24 where I read:
------------------
"The Altitude Reporter AK-350 is remote mounted equipment
that is fully automatic in operation. The companion
ATC transponder normally controls the operation of hte
Altitude Reporter by automatically enabling or disabling
its operation.

This is done by pulling-up to logic LOW (to enable)
or pulling-down to logic HIGH (to disable) the STROBE
(pin 6) line of the Altitude Reporter."
------------------

Hmmm . . . NORMALLY in electro-speak, one pulls a line
DOWN for logic LO and pulls UP for logic HI. I stumbled
over the words in the paragraph and then recalled that
in some interface wiring, inverting buffers are used
between internal electronics and outside world wiring.
Outside the box, logic LO is in fact a higher voltage
than logic HI which is ground.

So, I sailed around what appeared to be a rational
condition. Now, as Dave has suggested, the WIRING
DIAGRAMS earlier in the manual are quite specific for
treatment of the STROBE line when the companion
transponder doesn't need it: the line is firmly attached
to ground.

I do recall now that when I was selling the T2000
MicroAir and associated harness to mate with the AK350,
the pink wire in the harness was paired with the
ground wire to the transponder.

It's always helpful to have more than one head pondering
meanings to at least raise valid questions if not
point out blatant errors. Had I reached past the search
engine and reviewed the wiring diagrams, the error of
my earlier understanding would have been obvious.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is a micro-example of
a good critical design review. Understanding of words,
and ordinary errors can be impediments to progress.
Dave gets the "Atta Boy" nod for the day.

Bob . . .


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dave(at)abrahamson.net
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:48 am    Post subject: Transponder Reply with quote

Glad my one cent was useful to someone. Just to highlight the fact
that this great list includes the illuminati of electronics as well
as the cretini of homebuilding (me) -- and for TGIF comic relief, it
may be worth detailing my thought process regarding the strobe wiring
in a few sentences. Not knowing, and continually forgetting to ask
whether the GTX330 is a strobe/non-strobe type xponder, I went with
the seems-reasonable-to-me approach and picked the AK350 wiring
diagram (p.8A) that left pin 6 (strobe) unconnected. Later, seeing
that no altitude was being reported, and after checking that all the
A, B, and C wires were connected correctly, I figured the last
possible step was to connect the strobe wire to ground, as indicated
in the non-strobe version of p.8A's diagram. I figured it would
either work, or a puff of acrid smoke would emanate from the box and
I'd be out $150, which compared to the total cost of the airplane
would be an acceptable loss. So, that's how the mind of this
OBAM-building monkey worked in this case and no, this anecdote is not
indicative of my aeronautical decision making.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:58 am    Post subject: Transponder Reply with quote

At 06:46 AM 9/22/2006 -0400, you wrote:

Quote:


Glad my one cent was useful to someone. Just to highlight the fact that
this great list includes the illuminati of electronics as well as the
cretini of homebuilding (me) -- and for TGIF comic relief, it may be worth
detailing my thought process regarding the strobe wiring in a few
sentences. Not knowing, and continually forgetting to ask whether the
GTX330 is a strobe/non-strobe type xponder, I went with the
seems-reasonable-to-me approach and picked the AK350 wiring diagram (p.8A)
that left pin 6 (strobe) unconnected. Later, seeing that no altitude was
being reported, and after checking that all the A, B, and C wires were
connected correctly, I figured the last possible step was to connect the
strobe wire to ground, as indicated in the non-strobe version of p.8A's
diagram. I figured it would either work, or a puff of acrid smoke would
emanate from the box and I'd be out $150, which compared to the total cost
of the airplane would be an acceptable loss. So, that's how the mind of
this OBAM-building monkey worked in this case and no, this anecdote is not
indicative of my aeronautical decision making.

I've stumbled a bit on AmeriKing's wiring digarams too. I
THINK the only error in the manual is the syntax of logic
hi versus lo on page 24. Note that every time you see a
un-connected pin labeled STROBE, its the TRANSPONDER pin,
not the encoder pin.

Every wiring diagram (and chart) shows the ENCODER STROBE
pin 6 hooked somewhere whether to some pin on the transponder
or ground. This conversation has been useful. I doubt that
I'll forget it again. Thanks!

Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------


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