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Full stall landings

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APilot(at)webtv.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject: Full stall landings

I have yet to perform a full stall landing without the tail wheel

hitting first.  I have bent the tail wheel up a couple inches, added

larger diameter tires, use full flaps (which changes the relative

decalage) and am still not able to perform a full stall without the

tailwheel hitting first. That, of course,will cause the main wheels to

drop on.  This type of landing works good on Cubs, T-crafts, Citabrias,

C-120s and C-140s, Luscombes and Kitfoxs.  That is all of the planes in

which I have experience.  There must be something wrong with my Mk III.

Of course, it lands nicely on the mains and also if you let it settle

just before the full stall.  Now that I understand how my plane lands,

it is no longer an issue for me, but I thought maybe I might save

someone a bent gear leg.

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:18 am Post subject: Full stall landings

APilot(at)webtv.net,



There is nothing wrong with your Kolb. The three-point angle of attack 

on a Kolb with standard gear legs. is well below the Critical(stall) 

angle of attack, by design. Lengthen the main gear legs enough and you 

can stall it in three-point.



Thom in Buffalo

do not archive

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:39 am Post subject: Full stall landings

Have you bought a hydraulic press, yet? If you haven't done that, or borrowed one, you obviously haven't bent enough gear legs. Keep trying. Have you bent the roll over hoop? Seriously, you've got to put your whole self into the moment, fly it down right to stall, and use one notch of flaps to really fine point on it. And then, WHAM. Your main gear looks like it was designed by Roger Rabbit over in Toon Town. 

I have 18" dia. nerf tires, full swivel tailwheel on a 4130 leg, sleeved,  no less, and I almost always fly at aft C.G. and I couldn't get a consistent three point out of mine, either. 

Then Travis talked good sense into me and I stopped trying. Now I'm finding it's all about energy management, as the shuttle drivers put it. I can wheel it on at 50 mph and roll her out or I can bleed off the speed as gently as possible to get a landing at about 42 or so in a three point attitude. I don't believe the wing is stalled at that point, but I no longer get that annoying ground slam when it does and that's all I really care about. 



Rick



On 9/19/06, Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net (jtriddle(at)adelphia.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   APilot(at)webtv.net (APilot(at)webtv.net),



There is nothing wrong with your Kolb. The three-point angle of attack

on a Kolb with standard gear legs. is well below the Critical(stall)

angle of attack, by design. Lengthen the main gear legs enough and you 

can stall it in three-point.



Thom in Buffalo

do not archive

	


-- 

Rick Girard

"Ya'll drop on in"

takes on a whole new meaning

when you live at the airport.  [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:57 am Post subject: Full stall landings

Seriously, you've got to put your whole self

| into the moment, fly it down right to stall, and use one notch of 

flaps to

| really fine point on it. And then, WHAM.



| Rick Girard

Rick:



I usually land with full flaps, on the mkIII.  That puts the aircraft 

into an attitude that is not quite as nose high as half flaps or no 

flaps at all.



My mkIII sits somewhat higher in the nose, but the 8" Maule Tundra 

Tail Wheel canceled some of that out, unfortunately.



Should get a chance to practice landings in the Factory FSII this 

week.  We'll see if I can still land a Kolb that is in the normal 

landing gear configuration.



Plan to get out of hauck's holler in the morning and sleep on Labhart 

Field tomorrow night.



See you all there,



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject: Full stall landings

The flaps, at least one notch, make my landings a gentle slow delight.

Pull them on and it's like airbrakes,  advance a touch of throttle,

maintain 50-55 mph and chop it at the end of the cornstalks.

Touches down like a butterfly.  Is it 3 point?  Beats me,

but close enough.

Sitting out there with the best visibility short of a helicopter

you should be able to judge when you're close enough.

Much less of a challenge than a clunky old low wing airplane.

BB, MkIII, suzuki G10

do not archive

On 19, Sep 2006, at 10:38 AM, Richard Girard wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Have you bought a hydraulic press, yet? If you haven't done that, or 

 borrowed one, you obviously haven't bent enough gear legs. Keep 

 trying. Have you bent the roll over hoop? Seriously, you've got to put 

 your whole self into the moment, fly it down right to stall, and use 

 one notch of flaps to really fine point on it. And then, WHAM. Your 

 main gear looks like it was designed by Roger Rabbit over in Toon 

 Town.

 I have 18" dia. nerf tires, full swivel tailwheel on a 4130 leg, 

 sleeved,  no less, and I almost always fly at aft C.G. and I couldn't 

 get a consistent three point out of mine, either.

 Then Travis talked good sense into me and I stopped trying. Now I'm 

 finding it's all about energy management, as the shuttle drivers put 

 it. I can wheel it on at 50 mph and roll her out or I can bleed off 

 the speed as gently as possible to get a landing at about 42 or so in 

 a three point attitude. I don't believe the wing is stalled at that 

 point, but I no longer get that annoying ground slam when it does and 

 that's all I really care about.

 Rick

 On 9/19/06, Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> wrote:APilot(at)webtv.net,

>

> There is nothing wrong with your Kolb. The three-point angle of attack

> on a Kolb with standard gear legs. is well below the Critical(stall)

> angle of attack, by design. Lengthen the main gear legs enough and you

> can stall it in three-point.

>

> Thom in Buffalo

> do not archive

 -- 

 Rick Girard

 "Ya'll drop on in"

 takes on a whole new meaning

 when you live at the airport.

stoppnvd(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: Full stall landings

FOR THE LAST TIME

UNSRIBE ME!!! 

 2006/9/19, robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net (slyck(at)frontiernet.net)>:  	  Quote: 	
		  The flaps, at least one notch, make my landings a gentle slow delight.

Pull them on and it's like airbrakes,  advance a touch of throttle, 

maintain 50-55 mph and chop it at the end of the cornstalks.

Touches down like a butterfly.  Is it 3 point?  Beats me,

but close enough.

Sitting out there with the best visibility short of a helicopter

you should be able to judge when you're close enough. 

Much less of a challenge than a clunky old low wing airplane.

BB, MkIII, suzuki G10

do not archive

On 19, Sep 2006, at 10:38 AM, Richard Girard wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Have you bought a hydraulic press, yet? If you haven't done that, or 

 borrowed one, you obviously haven't bent enough gear legs. Keep

 trying. Have you bent the roll over hoop? Seriously, you've got to put

 your whole self into the moment, fly it down right to stall, and use 

 one notch of flaps to really fine point on it. And then, WHAM. Your

 main gear looks like it was designed by Roger Rabbit over in Toon

 Town.

 I have 18" dia. nerf tires, full swivel tailwheel on a 4130 leg, 

 sleeved, no less, and I almost always fly at aft C.G. and I couldn't

 get a consistent three point out of mine, either.

 Then Travis talked good sense into me and I stopped trying. Now I'm

 finding it's all about energy management, as the shuttle drivers put 

 it. I can wheel it on at 50 mph and roll her out or I can bleed off

 the speed as gently as possible to get a landing at about 42 or so in

 a three point attitude. I don't believe the wing is stalled at that 

 point, but I no longer get that annoying ground slam when it does and

 that's all I really care about.

 Rick

 On 9/19/06, Thom Riddle < jtriddle(at)adelphia.net (jtriddle(at)adelphia.net)> wrote:APilot(at)webtv.net ([email]wrote:APilot(at)webtv.net[/email]),

>

> There is nothing wrong with your Kolb. The three-point angle of attack

> on a Kolb with standard gear legs. is well below the Critical(stall) 

> angle of attack, by design. Lengthen the main gear legs enough and you

> can stall it in three-point.

>

> Thom in Buffalo

> do not archive

 -- 

 Rick Girard

 "Ya'll drop on in"

 takes on a whole new meaning

 when you live at the airport.

-- 

graag tot ziens op  www.stopkindersexnu.nl   [quote][b]

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject: Full stall landings

Richard 

 Hows that Suzuki G10 been treating you Keep us informed  as I have an intrist in it for future plans 

 

                                Ellery 

 do not archive  [quote][b]

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: Full stall landings

Read the instructions and un-sub-scribe  yourself.              Do not Archive.

  

 Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

Building Kolb Mk III

Vamoose

www.gogittum.com

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: Full stall landings

Why don't you unsubscribe yourself!

 [quote]   ---

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject: Full stall landings

Ellery, I'll get back to you off list -BB  (the G10 guy)

On 19, Sep 2006, at 11:41 PM, ElleryWeld(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Richard

  Hows that Suzuki G10 been treating you Keep us informed  as I have an 

 intrist in it for future plans



                                 Ellery

  do not archive

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: Full stall landings

Not sure what happens when a person is un-sribed,  (does it have anything to do with ribs? Like - if you give one up, you get  a wife, or something? An email variation on Adam & Eve?) but just on the  assumption that you want off the list - instead  of shouting at the list members, or using white-out on the screen, (You are  blonde, aren't you?) why not try using the unsubscribe tool here? Like it says  in the list utilities box?

 

  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Ralph Hoover

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Central Ohio

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Full stall landings

Pastor Pike, Where is the Jesus in that response. A little love my brother, a little love and he will melt into submission. He probably was not aware of such a handy tool as that which you describe. Or he may just be mad and is shouting to vent off steam.

Richard Pike said: "(You are blonde, aren't you?) " 



Oh i oh, Ralph, in the potty room in Ohio. Now I got a priest amd at me too!

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: Full stall landings

Ah yes, Brother Ralph, but it is written in Proverbs 26:5, "Answer a fool 

according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit."

Since he was acting foolishly, I took the liberty (probably unkindly, but so 

it goes...) of using his inability to read and follow directions as a source 

of amusement for the rest of the list..

(And if not the rest of the list, at least me)

The Scriptures are full of people whose only apparent value to civilization 

was to be a bad object lesson for the rest of us.

(Sort of a Spiritual Version of "Hey, ya'll, watch this!")  (Crunch... ) 

Balaam, Nabal, Dathan, etc.

Now obviously, this list hardly measures up to the level of the Scriptures, 

but just think, UNSRIBE ME has now joined the ranks of Bad Object Lessons 

for all posterity.

Wheee...

Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

do not archive

---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Ralph Hoover

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Central Ohio

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Full stall landings

Ah yes, Brother Pike. But once I was one of those: "Since he was acting foolishly" persons. And still have a bout here and there. And had the loving individuals not cared enough for that lost fool, I would not be the wonderful (bow down, bow down) individual, full of grace, overwhelmed by love and kindness as I am today. I would probably be the lecherous fool that mugged you family in the ally near the downtown bar for some drug money!



And some of those wonderful individuals are at the Kolb Factory. Why not make a trek out there and bless them by your presence. You will still be back by Sunday Service and will be filled with joy!



So ends a prelude to Sunday Service, country style here in Ohio, by one lowely servant of the one that paid the price for this Ralph.



I'll tell ya, them boys at Kolb were working up a frenzy for all you Kolbers to vist them and suck out all their great knowledge and see one of the purdiest Mark III I have ever laid eyes on. Get in your Kolbs, in your cars, on your motorcycles and busses and campers and go visit them right near Hazard Kentucky...Maybe bo and luke and perhaps Daisy will be there.

jsflan(at)valornet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:01 am Post subject: Full stall landings

Not part of the debate, but just chatted with Travis who is trying to help 

me to rectify an A&Ps foul-up and get the red Kolb in the air again in spite 

of the visitor load. Still wirechasing to do, temperatures to rectify and 

parts to buy from other sources. Travis told me where to find them.

Just wanted to let others who don't know that the New Kolb factory folks are 

very helpful  and always uplifting and positive. And Travis does excellent 

translations from my dummy descriptions to specifics of what I actually 

need. Treat him gently while you're back there. We need him.



jsf

 do not archive

---

Ralph Hoover

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Central Ohio

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Full stall landings

jsflan(at)valornet.com said 



"but just chatted with Travis who is trying to help 

me to rectify an A&Ps foul-up and get the red Kolb in the air again in spite 

of the visitor load."



Sorry about your problems. I know the feeling, believe me. And Travis is one seemingly super human. I just met him the other day and I saw this, well for lack of a better description: "appendage" coming from his right ear and a large black circle around his mouth.



Not desiring to stare, I had to ask Dennis. He said as a child, this began growing and hasen't stopped. It appears that he is able to communicate with anyone that calls the Kolb factory while walking around the plant! I was amazed.  Not only that, but he can apparently focus his attention to that person on the phone. I would ask a question and he would answer, but not me. I looked around and nobody else was around. Amazing. If anyone could help you while Kolb is knee high in Kolbers and wanna-be's, its him. Denny says that if someone calls and it rings more than one time "Travis is on the phone with another customer!" What a man.



I hope you resolve your problem with their help. And yes, they know all the real non discript words we use to describe real air plane parts!



Ohio Ralph

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