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Warp Drive Hub

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Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:54 am Post subject: Warp Drive Hub

All,

         Donny, one of the locals, suggested that I was over-propped and 

that was why my performance was off. (I'm running a 70" Warp 3-blade on my 

Rotax 582 with a 3:1 "C" box.) He suggested I go to two blades, or change 

the ratio to 3.47:1. Toward that end, I'm looking to see if anyone has a 

Warp two blade hub or some 3.47:1 "C" box gears that I might beg/borrow/buy.



Thanks,

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:35 am Post subject: Warp Drive Hub

Guy,

    I have the 3 blade 70" warp (3:1 "C") and have had no problems with 

performance.  Actually, I had a prop strike and it's now a 68" 3 blade (Warp 

repair).  There are many applications using the 3 blade warp and 582 with no 

problems.  Please tell me off list again what you are seeing.  I wasn't 

paying attention before and all shouldn't have to hear it again.  Sorry

Don Smythe

---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:46 am Post subject: Warp Drive Hub

Guy,



Before you jump to any prop decisions, call WARP and ask them.   I have a 68 

" 3 blade from WARP and you saw the video last week ?

You could cut 3/4 off each blade IF that is the problem.



Can you do a video of   a few take offs ?  I would think that you should be 

able to accelerate to 35 to 40 mph within 300 feet max.



If you lived near me I would get you over here and I got several props you 

could experiment with.

I would suggest other than yours to try Warp 68" 3 blade , GSC  68 " 3 blade 

or a IVO medium 70 or 72 "  2 blade.

The Ivo will hold up as it a large chord prop with a large mounting flange. 

The smaller UL props are not advisable to use on 3 to 1 boxes as per  IVO .

GSC are cheap (maybe 400 or 500$ ) and I know they work well. I find it 

works about the same as the WARP   +/- a bit  ..



You need me to do a movie of different props on 582 Kitfox ?  I have 3 

different ones here and if anyone reads  this like Tennessee props or Culver 

props, I would ask if you would like some good  coverage on a Kitfox 582 to 

send  me your best prop.  I have 2 similar planes to try them on so we can 

get different results and post them for all to see.



If you want bragging rights for your prop -- contact me  

Dave



---

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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: Warp Drive Hub

Don,



Did you notice any differances before and after the prop trim ?



Dave

---

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject: Warp Drive Hub

None what so ever.  Warp said that it would make no difference.



Don Smythe

---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: Warp Drive Hub

Don ,   About 45F here today  I just was out in plane.

Static is now at 5950 6000  on mine  was  6050 to 6100  the other day .



So Guy's prop being 70 inch  should have little effect on anything as long 

as his rpm is simular ?

6200 would be my preferance and I will likely repitch here soon as the 

colder weather is getting closer 



Dave

---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: Warp Drive Hub

At 11:44 AM 10/14/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  You need me to do a movie of different props on 582 Kitfox ?  I have 3

different ones here and if anyone reads  this like Tennessee props or Culver

props, I would ask if you would like some good  coverage on a Kitfox 582 to

send  me your best prop.  I have 2 similar planes to try them on so we can

get different results and post them for all to see.



If you want bragging rights for your prop -- contact me


	


Thanks for the offer. I'm still fooling around. My last attempt was to 

increase the pitch to 13.5d at the tip. It was really interesting. I had 

6000 static; looked great. Then I tried to take off. I rolled maybe 50 feet 

and the engine started to wind down. By the time I got to 30mph the engine 

was down to 4400rpm and it was clear I was going nowhere! I tried it twice 

with the exact same results. So it appears I was very near the torque curve 

with my previous 12 degrees.



I'm going through the engine now trying to discern why I would be low on 

horsepower. Jan at JC Propellor is trying to help me. He has a contact with 

a similar configuration who tops out at 102mph. Using Martin Hollman's 

speed program I'd have to have either 3 square feet more drag area, (40% 

more,) or be running 45hp max in my 582, or some combination thereof. It's 

unlikely I have more than 1 square foot more drag area so that would mean I 

was running 54hp max. I've got good compression and good EGT's, but I 

haven't checked the ignition timing, rotary valve timing, or exhaust pipe.



Question for the 582 folk: Is there a way to check the ignition timing 

electronically or with a strobe? I don't want to pull the engine quite yet.



I'm going to post pictures of my exhaust for comparison / evaluation by the 

582 experts. It's definitely NOT Rotax stock.

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Warp Drive Hub

 	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks for the offer. I'm still fooling around. My last attempt was to increase the pitch to 13.5d at the tip. It was really interesting. I had 

6000 static; looked great. Then I tried to take off. I rolled maybe 50 feet 

and the engine started to wind down. By the time I got to 30mph the engine was down to 4400rpm and it was clear I was going nowhere! I tried it twice with the exact same results. So it appears I was very near the torque curve with my previous 12 degrees. 

	




Sorry to but in here as I have nothing really helpful to offer. I'm just confused about the explination for the RPM decreasing with increased airspeed. Shouldn't the prop unload as airspeed increasing and therefore increase RPM for the same HP output?

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: Warp Drive Hub

I suspect the prop was partially stalled and started

grabbing air as you accellerated.  This brought the

RPM and HP down as the prop began to work more.

Just my guess, that you were over pitched.

Kurt S.  S-5

--- wingnut <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   > Thanks for the offer. I'm still fooling around. My

 last attempt was to increase the pitch to 13.5d at

 the tip. It was really interesting. I had 

 > 6000 static; looked great. Then I tried to take

 off. I rolled maybe 50 feet 

 > and the engine started to wind down. By the time I

 got to 30mph the engine was down to 4400rpm and it

 was clear I was going nowhere! I tried it twice with

 the exact same results. So it appears I was very

 near the torque curve with my previous 12 degrees. 

 > 

 Sorry to but in here as I have nothing really

 helpful to offer. I'm just confused about the

 explination for the RPM decreasing with increased

 airspeed. Shouldn't the prop unload as airspeed

 increasing and therefore increase RPM for the same

 HP output?

__________________________________________________

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:53 am Post subject: Warp Drive Hub

At 08:40 PM 10/20/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Sorry to but in here as I have nothing really helpful to offer. I'm just 

confused about the explination for the RPM decreasing with increased 

airspeed. Shouldn't the prop unload as airspeed increasing and therefore 

increase RPM for the same HP output?


	


Normally, yes. But in my case the prop was stalled at 0 airspeed. Once I 

picked up some airspeed it un-stalled, loaded up past the torque 

capabilities of the motor at any RPM, dragging the RPM down until the 

torque requirements of the prop matched the torque output of the motor. If 

the torque requirement curve matches the torque output curve the RPM decays 

to a very low value.

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

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