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Ethanol

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rexjan(at)bigpond.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: Ethanol

Subject: Ethanol



 



 Hi ! Guys,

                     here is a link on a Forum here in.Australia [ Recreationalflying ] dicussing  Ethanol in our planes. Actually the discussion is from USA. Anyway it takes 18  mins to listen but I think some interesting points are made. Here is the  link.

                                                                                                                                                                                       Rex

 http://www.ultraflightradio.com/impodcast/2006/10/03/uft061003d.mp3

  

   [quote][b]

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: Ethanol

On Oct 18, 2006, at 6:42 PM, Rex Shaw wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   http://www.ultraflightradio.com/impodcast/2006/10/03/uft061003d.mp3


	


Rex, now that I have some time to listen to it, the link is dead. 



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject: Ethanol

Try this:



http://www.worldtalkradio.com/mp3player.asp?SegmentID=35723



Or go to  http://www.ultraflightradio.com/archives2006/archives0610.html

and look for Bever Bourne air tech for Oct 3.  close to the bottom of the

page.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

rexjan(at)bigpond.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:15 am Post subject: Ethanol

http://www.ultraflightradio.com/impodcast/2006/10/03/uft061003d.mp3

       

      Rex, now that I have some time to listen to  it, the link is dead. 

       

      Cheers,

       Michel

Sorry Michel,

                      I think it disappeared soon after I posted it. It was saying that the  Ethanol attacks seals as well as the Fibreglass and fuel lines. Yes they were  just as worried as we are about all the effects.

                                                                                                                Rex.

   [quote][b]

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:12 am Post subject: Ethanol

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Rex Shaw [rexjan(at)bigpond.com]

 It was saying that the Ethanol attacks seals.


	


Fear not, my friend. I have it from Neptune that the seals have sealed an alliance with the dolphins and are about to retaliate ...



.. sorry, I know; a waste of bandwidth and innocent bytes ... I couldn't resist ... a troll made me do it ...



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

torgemor(at)online.no
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: Ethanol

Hi Folks,



It's still there, right in their archeive- go here:



http://www.ultraflightradio.com/bytopic/politics.html



Then roll down until you see the "introduction of the program" by Randy  

Hansen, EAA:

-----------------------------------



It seems that gasoline is on everyone's mind nowadays and it really should  

be on a lot of pilots' minds. Because while most people are worried about  

the price of fuel, pilots that use autofuel for their aircraft have bigger  

concerns. Pilots need to know the issues surrounding the reformulation of  

fuel, mainly the addition of Ethanol to gasoline. Randy Hansen has been  

studying the issue and talks to us about it. EAA.org. (5/30/06)



-----------------------------------

Click the "podcast download" (MP3 file 7 Mb), or just click "listen now".

Torgeir





On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 02:44:14 +0200, Rex Shaw <rexjan(at)bigpond.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   http://www.ultraflightradio.com/impodcast/2006/10/03/uft061003d.mp3

      Rex, now that I have some time to listen to it, the link is dead.  

 

      Cheers,

       Michel

 Sorry Michel,

                     I think it disappeared soon after I posted it. It  

 was saying that the Ethanol attacks seals as well as the Fibreglass and  

 fuel lines. Yes they were just as worried as we are about all the  

 effects.

                                                                                                               Rex.


	


-- 

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject: Ethanol

To raise an old thread from not to long ago....My old instructor (also a top 

notch aeronautical Engineer) just did a test on some 10% Ethanol fuel from 

the local gas station.  He took 10 parts gasoline (assuming 1 part ethanol) 

and mixed with 2 parts water in a calibrated container.  According to him, 

within seconds, the water/ethanol formed a cloudy mixture at the bottom of 

the container.  I asked this once before about making some sort of rig that 

would simply remove the 10% ethanol through phase separation.  Any new 

thoughts on this?



Don Smythe

---

Bob

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Damascus, Maryland, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol

The problem is that the ethanol is there with it's own job - to replace the MTBE.  Theoretically, you could do what you propose, IF you can determine how precisely much ethanol you are taking out, make sure you got all the water back out, have the replacement on hand, determine the equivalent amount of replacement, and then mix the replacement uniformly through your fuel.



Bob

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Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:06 am Post subject: Ethanol

Ethanol has a much greater affinity to form a solution with water than it

does with gasoline.  Therefore all you have to do to remove ethanol form

gasoline is "wash" it with a bit of water.  In other words add water to the

gas, mix and let settle for about twenty minutes.  The water ethanol

solution will be on the bottom and the gas will be on the top.  If you use

something like a tank with a sump and a spigot on the bottom all you have to

do is drain off the water ethanol before draining off the gas.



There may be a reasons not to do this.  Ethanol increases the octane rating

of gas ( a couple of points ) and there are other additives in the gas that

washing may remove.



There was a fellow on another list who operated a boat (out of New York I

think ) that had fibreglass tanks moulded into the hull.  He started washing

his fuel several years ago and has no problem with his fuel tanks/hull

disintegrating and no problems with the engine either.



The down sides to gas washing is what do you do with the water ethanol

solution after removing it from the gas?  And will every FBO from here to

Tim Buk Tu have the equipment to separate ethanol?



I hope in five or six years when the financial and physical reality of

ethanol as a viable fuel is proven and there will be a lot of very cheap

booze on the market.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:34 am Post subject: Ethanol

I don't know anything about gasoline or mbte/ethanol but thought the 

questions was worth beating around a little.  So, you can possible remove 

the ethanol but would have to replace it with something else like mbte??? 

Correct??  What does mbte or ethanol do to gasoline to make it good/safe for 

engines?  I guess an engine would not operate correctly with the 

mbte/ethanol removed.



Don Smythe



---

jareds(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject: Ethanol

Don, 



I thought the MBTE acted as a lubricant after lead was removed from 

gasoline.

Now that i moved from DC to South Dakota there is an ethynol plant on 

every corner.  The TV commercial where the dude rolls up to a corn field 

to fill up is almost a reality here.  I really have to go out of my way 

to find fuel because our bulk deliverer only can delivery ethy based 

fuel.  So this is a pretty interesting thread.  Hope we get some more 

experts to weigh in!

Thanks,



Jared



Don Smythe wrote:



[quote] 



 I don't know anything about gasoline or mbte/ethanol but thought the 

 questions was worth beating around a little.  So, you can possible 

 remove the ethanol but would have to replace it with something else 

 like mbte??? Correct??  What does mbte or ethanol do to gasoline to 

 make it good/safe for engines?  I guess an engine would not operate 

 correctly with the mbte/ethanol removed.



 Don Smythe



 ---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:12 am Post subject: Ethanol

Lead and mtbe are both octane number enhancers.  The difference is MTBE

isn't corrosive like Ethanol, doesn't form a solution with water, doesn't

vapour loc like Ethanol and won't make a meal out of your composite tanks.



There is the fact that the newer gas station tanks are made of composite

using vinyl fillers.  These fillers are supposed to be invulnerable to

Ethanol.  I prefer to visit that particular subject again in say fifteen

years.  In the mean time if you made your own tanks and made them using

vinyl fillers then that is one less thing you have to worry about when

boozing up the plane.  The rest of us with composite tanks should try to

avoid booze ( in the glass and in the tank) while flying.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

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