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Dreamliner lithium fire final report

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: Dreamliner lithium fire final report

See:

http://tinyurl.com/pl97rqj





   Bob . . .

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fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:28 pm Post subject: Dreamliner lithium fire final report

Very interesting read.  Sound like a thorough investigation.  One thing I

noticed that there was no discussion (that I could find) of changing to a

more traditional battery type or another version of Lithium such as LiFePo.



Bevan 



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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:42 am Post subject: Dreamliner lithium fire final report

At 00:26 2014-12-05, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Very interesting read.  Sound like a thorough investigation.  One thing I

noticed that there was no discussion (that I could find) of changing to a

more traditional battery type or another version of Lithium such as LiFePo.


	


   Not the NTSBs job. Incident investigations are limited

   to deduction of root cause and chain of events that

   followed. The FAA will (and in some respects already

   has) responded with enhanced (read more educated)

   certification criteria. True Blue has been marching

   to the new drum and has been holy watered. I'm hoping

   to visit with the guys in Wichita that manufacture

   and market the True Blue line in the near future.



   I don't think the FAA has mumbled anything about banning

   one chemistry in favor of another . . . again, not

   part of their charter. But they have said that if

   you choose to incorporate a new product or process

   into your design, you need to demonstrate either (1)

   exceedingly improbable or (2) total mitigation for

   worst case events.



   There are a number of youtube videos but one in

   particular where the producer-director subjects

   the LiFePo cells to spectacular abuse yet fails

   to produce more than a few sparks or a little smoke.

   Clearly, the LiFePo chemistry is the most attractive

   product for future consideration in OBAM aircraft.



   Given that a series string of 4 cells cannot be

   abused by over-charging in a 14v system, it seems

   that the most challenging issues will focus

   on cost of ownership. If a cell is severely discharged

   (much below 2.8v) it's trashed. An array of cells

   subject to repeated deep discharge/recharge events

   is at risk for charge imbalance in one or more

   cells which places them at risk for early failure.



   We're fortunate to have access to a HUGE testing

   laboratory for rapidly growing numbers of LiFePo

   products . . . motorcycles and recreational

   vehicles. A market that is probably 100x larger

   than aviation applications. I do periodic

   web searches on motorcycle+lithium+fire and to

   date, I've not discovered any instances of mishap

   unique to or exacerbated by the application of

   lithium. If anyone runs across an incident of

   interest on the web, I'd like to get a note on

   it.



   Here is one interesting battery narrative from the

   motorcycle world  http://tinyurl.com/3uccevs



   These guys are wrestling with the same performance

   and system integration issues we face. We would do

   well to study their experience for expanded lessons-

   learned.

   Bob . . .

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