Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Air charging valve?
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Yak-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

jbsoar(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:27 am Post subject: Air charging valve?

What valve are most folks using on the air bottle?There seems to be a Russian valve, and sometimes this is removed an a shreader valve is installed.Â  Spelled correctly?

Thank you!

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:09 am Post subject: Air charging valve?

I know that a number of people do use the Schrader valve, but I have always been concerned since the normal operating pressure is up to 5 bar (that is for automotive tires), and in our air systems the pressure can be over 50 bar!

 

Richard Goode

 

Rhodds Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5 3LW 

United Kingdom 

 Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)

Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120 

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129 

www.russianaeros.com

Iâ€™m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779 132 160.

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John B

Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 1:54 PM

To: Yak-List Digest Server

Subject: Air charging valve?



 

What valve are most folks using on the air bottle?

There seems to be a Russian valve, and sometimes this is removed an a shreader valve is installed.  Spelled correctly?



Thank you!



-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and 

dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 

believed to be clean.

cabbott(at)dragnet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:54 am Post subject: Air charging valve?

Has anyone removed the self centring springs from a yak 52 ?, 

if so is it as easy as removing the complete "Spring units" or do they have to be removed disassembled and the springs removed and then reinstalled ? 

How is the elevator and aileron stops effected?

Chris Abbott



Sent from my iPad



On 25 Jan 2016, at 8:06 PM, Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->

I know that a number of people do use the Schrader valve, but I have always been concerned since the normal operating pressure is up to 5 bar (that is for automotive tires), and in our air systems the pressure can be over 50 bar!

 

Richard Goode

 

Rhodds Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5 3LW 

United Kingdom 

 Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)

Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120 

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129 

www.russianaeros.com

Iâ€™m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779 132 160.

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of John B

Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 1:54 PM

To: Yak-List Digest Server

Subject: Air charging valve?



 

What valve are most folks using on the air bottle?

There seems to be a Russian valve, and sometimes this is removed an a shreader valve is installed.  Spelled correctly?



Thank you!



-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and 

dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 

believed to be clean.

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:19 am Post subject: Air charging valve?

Yes I have.  Easy to do. Remove the complete assembly.  There is no 

affect on the elevator and aileron stops.



A word of caution.  When you first fly the airplane after removing the 

self centering you will have a tendency to over-control the airplane 

because you have been used to the spring back-pressure.



Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 1/25/2016 4:49 AM, CHRIS ABBOTT wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Has anyone removed the self centring springs from a yak 52 ?,

 if so is it as easy as removing the complete "Spring units" or do they 

 have to be removed disassembled and the springs removed and then 

 reinstalled ?

 How is the elevator and aileron stops effected?



 Chris Abbott



 Sent from my iPad



 On 25 Jan 2016, at 8:06 PM, Richard Goode 

 <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com 

 <mailto:richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com>> wrote:



> I know that a number of people do use the Schrader valve, but I have 

> always been concerned since the normal operating pressure is up to 5 

> bar (that is for automotive tires), and in our air systems the 

> pressure can be over 50 bar!

>

> Richard Goode

>

> Rhodds Farm

>

> Lyonshall

>

> Hereford

>

> HR5 3LW

>

> United Kingdom

>

>  Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)

>

> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120

>

> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129

>

> www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com>

>

> Iâ€™m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local 

> phone is +94 779 132 160.

>

> *From:*owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com 

> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com> 

> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John B

> *Sent:* Monday, January 25, 2016 1:54 PM

> *To:* Yak-List Digest Server

> *Subject:* Air charging valve?

>

> What valve are most folks using on the air bottle?

>

> There seems to be a Russian valve, and sometimes this is removed an a 

> shreader valve is installed.  Spelled correctly?

>

> Thank you!

> -- 

> This message has been scanned for viruses and

> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, 

> and is

> believed to be clean.

>

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:37 am Post subject: Air charging valve?

My question is why do you need to install any type of valve directly on 

the air bottle?



When we install a Schrader valve on the external air fill port cover 

(for ease of refilling), we most definitely remove the valve core 

completely because it serves no purpose since the port is protected by 

check valves on both the main and emergency systems.  Now if one chooses 

to leave a valve core inthe Schrader valve, then a high pressure valve 

core must be used. Here is an excerpt from anarticle I found on valve cores.



"Even on small aircraft, the pressures that exist inside of

a landing gear strut, especially on landing, are quite high

compared to that of a typical tire. The typical Schrader

valve that we fi nd in aviation tire applications is usually

part number 6035 which has a standard operating pressure

from 0 to 400 PSI and a normal operating pressures normally

not over 70 PSI. However, the typical Schrader valve

that we should find in an aviation shock strut or hydraulic

accumulator should be Schrader part number 2300TV.

This valve has an operating pressure from 0 to 2000 PSI."



This high pressure valve core is available from Aircraft Spruce.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/2300hv.php



Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 1/25/2016 4:06 AM, Richard Goode wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I know that a number of people do use the Schrader valve, but I have 

 always been concerned since the normal operating pressure is up to 5 

 bar (that is for automotive tires), and in our air systems the 

 pressure can be over 50 bar!



 Richard Goode



 Rhodds Farm



 Lyonshall



 Hereford



 HR5 3LW



 United Kingdom



  Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)



 Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120



 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129



 www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com>



 Iâ€™m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone 

 is +94 779 132 160.



 *From:*owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John B

 *Sent:* Monday, January 25, 2016 1:54 PM

 *To:* Yak-List Digest Server

 *Subject:* Air charging valve?



 What valve are most folks using on the air bottle?



 There seems to be a Russian valve, and sometimes this is removed an a 

 shreader valve is installed.  Spelled correctly?



 Thank you!

 -- 

 This message has been scanned for viruses and

 dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is

 believed to be clean.

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:01 am Post subject: Air charging valve?

There is a high pressure version typically used on Cessna nose struts and Piper main struts The Cessna unit is S1827-1

George

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode

Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 4:06 AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Air charging valve?

 

I know that a number of people do use the Schrader valve, but I have always been concerned since the normal operating pressure is up to 5 bar (that is for automotive tires), and in our air systems the pressure can be over 50 bar!

 

Richard Goode

 

Rhodds Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5 3LW 

United Kingdom 

 Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)

Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120 

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129 

www.russianaeros.com

Iâ€™m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779 132 160.

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of John B

Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 1:54 PM

To: Yak-List Digest Server

Subject: Air charging valve?



 

What valve are most folks using on the air bottle?

There seems to be a Russian valve, and sometimes this is removed an a shreader valve is installed.  Spelled correctly?



Thank you!



-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and 

dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 

believed to be clean.

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:05 am Post subject: Air charging valve?

After they are removed, the remaining tabs make a perfect place to mount your autopilot servos. The 52W and 52TW came without the centering springs.

George



--

migfighter42(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:13 am Post subject: Air charging valve?

Russian valve with Schrader valve in the cap for backup. Russian valve is a quarter turn vs screw on and has no threads to strip. Gaskets are becoming hard to find though.

Bill

N81FS

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device



-------- Original message --------

From: John B <jbsoar(at)gmail.com> 

Date: 1/25/2016  2:23 AM  (GMT-06:00) 

To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list(at)matronics.com> 

Subject: Yak-List: Air charging valve? 



What valve are most folks using on the air bottle?There seems to be a Russian valve, and sometimes this is removed an a shreader valve is installed.  Spelled correctly?

Thank you!

jbsoar(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:17 am Post subject: Air charging valve?

Is it possible, or even advisable, to charge the air system with oxygen?Â  The high-pressure Schreader valve might allow this to be done, if one was stuck at an airport with no SCUBA tank available.Thanks!

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 6:57 AM, George S. Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

There is a high pressure version typically used on Cessna nose struts and Piper main struts The Cessna unit is S1827-1

George

Â 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Richard Goode

Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 4:06 AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: RE: Air charging valve?

Â 

I know that a number of people do use the Schrader valve, but I have always been concerned since the normal operating pressure is up to 5 bar (that is for automotive tires), and in our air systems the pressure can be over 50 bar!

Â 

Richard Goode

Â 

Rhodds Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5 3LW 

United Kingdom 

Â Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)

Tel:Â Â  [url=tel:%2B44%20%280%29%201544%20340120]+44 (0) 1544 340120[/url] 

Fax:Â  [url=tel:%2B44%20%280%29%201544%20340129]+44 (0) 1544 340129[/url] 

www.russianaeros.com

Iâ€™m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is [url=tel:%2B94%20779%20132%20160]+94 779 132 160[/url].

Â 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of John B

Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 1:54 PM

To: Yak-List Digest Server

Subject: Air charging valve?



Â 

What valve are most folks using on the air bottle?

There seems to be a Russian valve, and sometimes this is removed an a shreader valve is installed.Â  Spelled correctly?



Thank you!



-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and 

dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 

believed to be clean.

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:37 am Post subject: Air charging valve?

Hmmm if you try it, I suggest you stand back about a mile, notify your insurance company in advance and have the fire dept. on standby as high pressure oxygen and oils make dandy explosives. 

It has been done with the obvious resulting explosions. 

George

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John B

Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 9:14 AM

To: Yak-List Digest Server

Subject: Re: Air charging valve?

 

Is it possible, or even advisable, to charge the air system with oxygen?  The high-pressure Schreader valve might allow this to be done, if one was stuck at an airport with no SCUBA tank available.

Thanks!

 

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 6:57 AM, George S. Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

There is a high pressure version typically used on Cessna nose struts and Piper main struts The Cessna unit is S1827-1

George

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Richard Goode

Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 4:06 AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: RE: Air charging valve?

 

I know that a number of people do use the Schrader valve, but I have always been concerned since the normal operating pressure is up to 5 bar (that is for automotive tires), and in our air systems the pressure can be over 50 bar!

 

Richard Goode

 

Rhodds Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5 3LW 

United Kingdom 

 Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)

Tel:   [url=tel:%2B44%20%280%29%201544%20340120]+44 (0) 1544 340120[/url] 

Fax:  [url=tel:%2B44%20%280%29%201544%20340129]+44 (0) 1544 340129[/url] 

www.russianaeros.com

Iâ€™m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is [url=tel:%2B94%20779%20132%20160]+94 779 132 160[/url].

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of John B

Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 1:54 PM

To: Yak-List Digest Server

Subject: Air charging valve?



 

What valve are most folks using on the air bottle?

There seems to be a Russian valve, and sometimes this is removed an a shreader valve is installed.  Spelled correctly?



Thank you!



-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and 

dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 

believed to be clean.

William Halverson

Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 88

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:37 am Post subject: Air charging valve?

Not a good idea ...



Typos courtesy of Siri



On Jan 25, 2016, at 09:14, John B <jbsoar(at)gmail.com (jbsoar(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Is it possible, or even advisable, to charge the air system with oxygen?  The high-pressure Schreader valve might allow this to be done, if one was stuck at an airport with no SCUBA tank available.Thanks!

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 6:57 AM, George S. Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

There is a high pressure version typically used on Cessna nose struts and Piper main struts The Cessna unit is S1827-1

George

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Richard Goode

Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 4:06 AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: RE: Air charging valve?

 

I know that a number of people do use the Schrader valve, but I have always been concerned since the normal operating pressure is up to 5 bar (that is for automotive tires), and in our air systems the pressure can be over 50 bar!

 

Richard Goode

 

Rhodds Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5 3LW 

United Kingdom 

 Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)

Tel:   [url=tel:%2B44%20%280%29%201544%20340120]+44 (0) 1544 340120[/url] 

Fax:  [url=tel:%2B44%20%280%29%201544%20340129]+44 (0) 1544 340129[/url] 

www.russianaeros.com

Iâ€™m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is [url=tel:%2B94%20779%20132%20160]+94 779 132 160[/url].

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of John B

Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 1:54 PM

To: Yak-List Digest Server

Subject: Air charging valve?



 

What valve are most folks using on the air bottle?

There seems to be a Russian valve, and sometimes this is removed an a shreader valve is installed.  Spelled correctly?



Thank you!



-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and 

dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 

believed to be clean.

draftsjust417(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:41 am Post subject: Air charging valve?

Pure O2 is terribly volatile, more likely as not to bring on an explosion what with the oils & greases abounding in and around the system. 

Out of desperation once off-base I had to use nitrogen to recharge my CJ system, and found it works very very well, plus is completely harmless and widely avail in high pressure containers.

 I keep a 2500 psi cylinder in hangar for all my maintenance ($18 for a refill at any welding supply shop). 

Fyi,

 Justin Drafts (A&P)

 N280NC

  On Jan 25, 2016 8:01 AM,  <jlpartington(at)reagan.com (jlpartington(at)reagan.com)> wrote:[quote]

most places that have oxygen should have nitrogen, cheaper and less likely to cause problems with much oxygen around in case of fire. 

Â  

--

Looigi

Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 81
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Air charging valve?

Pure oxygen under high pressure will spontaneously combust when exposed to grease and oils, without the need of any other source of ignition.



When we replenish aircraft oxygen systems at work (I am an Aircraft Engineer) we make sure we have clean hands, clean overalls and we use a dedicated set of clean tools that are only used on oxygen systems.  Seriously guys, yes you are sitting in a room full of it, but under high pressure oxygen is lethal.  



To relate this back to the topic on hand, I will put it bluntly; ONLY FILL YOUR YAK AIR SYSTEM WITH OXYGEN IF YOU WANT TO DIE!!



Schrader valves are commonly used on commercial aircraft for applications far exceeding the pressures we are talking about here, but they are these type: https://www.schraderinternational.com/Products/Product-Folder/NA-High-Pressure-Valves-and-Connectors?sc_lang=en-US-AP



My question is, what is wrong with the Russian type os fitting that comes fitted to the aircraft as standard?  I personally think the design is very clever and reliable.  I looked at getting some machined up a while ago and the price was very reasonable at $100 or so each.  As it happened, I was given one, but if enough people want one, I will get some made. 



Chris

pa3arw(at)ziggo.nl
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:13 pm Post subject: Air charging valve?

I can confirm that! If I am not mistaken this is what happened a couple of

years back in Belgium: on a ferry flight a Yak52 arrived on a small airfield

in Belgium. After staying overnight and not having closed the main valve all

air was lost from the system. Since there was nothing else available than a

bottle with oxygen (for welding purposes) the pilot decided to fill the

system with this pure oxygen.

As soon as he hit the start button the whole plane exploded, that is all

tubing, actuators the whole lot was blown up. Result: a big bang, a fully

lost Yak52 and a bended ego....



Moral: never, never use pure oxygen!



Fly safe!



Hans O.

PH-YAK



Op 25-01-16 21:08, Looigi <cdoburton(at)gmail.com> schreef:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Pure oxygen under high pressure will spontaneously combust when exposed to

 grease and oils without any other source of ignition.

 

 When we replenish aircraft oxygen systems at work (I am an Aircraft Engineer)

 we make sure we have clean hands, clean overalls and we use a dedicated set of

 clean tools that are only used on oxygen systems.  Seriously guys, yes you are

 sitting in a room full of it, but under high pressure oxygen is lethal.  To

 relate this back to the topic on hand, I will put it bluntly; ONLY FILL YOUR

 YAK AIR SYSTEM WITH OXYGEN IF YOU WANT TO DIE!!

 

 Schrader valves are commonly used on commercial aircraft for applications far

 exceeding the pressures we are talking about here, but they are these type:

 https://www.schraderinternational.com/Products/Product-Folder/NA-High-Pressure

 -Valves-and-Connectors?sc_lang=en-US-AP

 

 My question is, what is wrong with the Russian type os fitting that comes

 fitted to the aircraft as standard?  I personally think the design is very

 clever and reliable.  I looked at getting some machined up a while ago and the

 price was very reasonable at $100 or so each.  As it happened, I was given

 one, but if enough people want one, I will get some made.

 

 Chris

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452269#452269

jbsoar(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:43 pm Post subject: Air charging valve?

Air pressure inlet questions.



This thread is getting quite interesting, and I thank all of you for your contributions.Â  There are tens of thousands of hours of experience on this forum, and it is nice that this knowledge is being shared.

Most of twenty years ago, I got a ride in a CJ-6.Â  Of course, I squeezed the bicycle brake handle that was mounted on the control stick, and was rewarded with a whoosh of air, as the brakes cycled.Â  Interesting.Â  The engine was easy to start, and the airplane flew well.Â  I casually wondered why Western airplanes didn't use a similar air starting system.Â 

Most of five years ago, at the Casa Grande airport in Arizona, I spoke with a foreign pilot who was ferrying a Sukhoi.Â  He had stopped for fuel, and then ran the airplane out of air while trying to start it.Â  He was in luck, as, at the time, there was a scuba diving school in town that was open.Â  Somebody took him to the scuba store, and, after messing around with a scuba tank, he started the engine and departed.

During the two hour sit in the pilot's lounge, I learned that oxygen couldn't be used, as it created an explosive mixture, and I was told that nitrogen wouldn't work, as nitrogen would tend to discourage combustion. Â 

Now, after buying a Yak 55M, I'd like to operate the airplane safely, and in a reliable manner.Â  No Oxygen, for obvious reasons.Â  I did not know that Nitrogen could be used.Â  The Yak I bought has the original Russian quarter turn fitting behind the wing on the left side of the fuselage.Â  This past weekend, I looked at a CJ-6 that had a similar fitting, except that someone had modified it with the installation of a Schreader valve, presumably of the high-pressure type.Â  The owner had a scuba tank in his hangar with the brass thread-on Schreader valve attached via a hose.Â  This set-up might provide two advantages: Â 1.Â  If one gets stuck away from one's own scuba tank, they might get their airplane started via a borrowed Nitrogen bottle, which is common at most sizable airports. Â 2.Â  The original Russian fitting has a dust cap that is held on with a cable lanyard.Â  With a Schreader valve, one wouldn't have to use, and leave off, this cap.Â  Thus far, the original Russian set-up has been working fine. Â 

Folks, if my thinking is defective, please educate me.Â  I appreciate your feedback!

John B

Phoenix, AZ

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Looigi <cdoburton(at)gmail.com (cdoburton(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "Looigi" <cdoburton(at)gmail.com (cdoburton(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Pure oxygen under high pressure will spontaneously combust when exposed to grease and oils without any other source of ignition.

 

 When we replenish aircraft oxygen systems at work (I am an Aircraft Engineer) we make sure we have clean hands, clean overalls and we use a dedicated set of clean tools that are only used on oxygen systems.Â  Seriously guys, yes you are sitting in a room full of it, but under high pressure oxygen is lethal.Â  To relate this back to the topic on hand, I will put it bluntly; ONLY FILL YOUR YAK AIR SYSTEM WITH OXYGEN IF YOU WANT TO DIE!!

 

 Schrader valves are commonly used on commercial aircraft for applications far exceeding the pressures we are talking about here, but they are these type: https://www.schraderinternational.com/Products/Product-Folder/NA-High-Pressure-Valves-and-Connectors?sc_lang=en-US-AP

 

 My question is, what is wrong with the Russian type os fitting that comes fitted to the aircraft as standard?Â  I personally think the design is very clever and reliable.Â  I looked at getting some machined up a while ago and the price was very reasonable at $100 or so each.Â  As it happened, I was given one, but if enough people want one, I will get some made.

 

 Chris

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452269#452269

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 br> fts!)

 r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ===========

 List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:29 pm Post subject: Air charging valve?

Oxygen not no but Hell No. Unless you have a death wish. Light off a cylinder filled with O2 in the air start lines with a push of the shower of sparks and watch the explosions begin. For some nitrogen has worked but it will be diluted out after the compressor begins recharging the system. 



Sent from my iPad



On Jan 25, 2016, at 8:14 AM, John B <jbsoar(at)gmail.com (jbsoar(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Is it possible, or even advisable, to charge the air system with oxygen?  The high-pressure Schreader valve might allow this to be done, if one was stuck at an airport with no SCUBA tank available.Thanks!

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 6:57 AM, George S. Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

There is a high pressure version typically used on Cessna nose struts and Piper main struts The Cessna unit is S1827-1

George

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Richard Goode

Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 4:06 AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air charging valve?

 

I know that a number of people do use the Schrader valve, but I have always been concerned since the normal operating pressure is up to 5 bar (that is for automotive tires), and in our air systems the pressure can be over 50 bar!

 

Richard Goode

 

Rhodds Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5 3LW 

United Kingdom 

 Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)

Tel:   [url=tel:%2B44%20%280%29%201544%20340120]+44 (0) 1544 340120[/url] 

Fax:  [url=tel:%2B44%20%280%29%201544%20340129]+44 (0) 1544 340129[/url] 

www.russianaeros.com

Iâ€™m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is [url=tel:%2B94%20779%20132%20160]+94 779 132 160[/url].

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of John B

Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 1:54 PM

To: Yak-List Digest Server

Subject: Yak-List: Air charging valve?



 

What valve are most folks using on the air bottle?

There seems to be a Russian valve, and sometimes this is removed an a shreader valve is installed.  Spelled correctly?



Thank you!



-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and 

dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 

believed to be clean.

_________________
Viperdoc

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:38 pm Post subject: Air charging valve?

The pictures posted at the time were impressive. Do not remember did the wayward soul survive?

Doc



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 25, 2016, at 3:04 PM, Hans Oortman <pa3arw(at)ziggo.nl> wrote:

 

 

 

 I can confirm that! If I am not mistaken this is what happened a couple of

 years back in Belgium: on a ferry flight a Yak52 arrived on a small airfield

 in Belgium. After staying overnight and not having closed the main valve all

 air was lost from the system. Since there was nothing else available than a

 bottle with oxygen (for welding purposes) the pilot decided to fill the

 system with this pure oxygen.

 As soon as he hit the start button the whole plane exploded, that is all

 tubing, actuators the whole lot was blown up. Result: a big bang, a fully

 lost Yak52 and a bended ego....

 

 Moral: never, never use pure oxygen!

 

 Fly safe!

 

 Hans O.

 PH-YAK

 

 Op 25-01-16 21:08, Looigi <cdoburton(at)gmail.com> schreef:

 

> 

> 

> Pure oxygen under high pressure will spontaneously combust when exposed to

> grease and oils without any other source of ignition.

> 

> When we replenish aircraft oxygen systems at work (I am an Aircraft Engineer)

> we make sure we have clean hands, clean overalls and we use a dedicated set of

> clean tools that are only used on oxygen systems.  Seriously guys, yes you are

> sitting in a room full of it, but under high pressure oxygen is lethal.  To

> relate this back to the topic on hand, I will put it bluntly; ONLY FILL YOUR

> YAK AIR SYSTEM WITH OXYGEN IF YOU WANT TO DIE!!

> 

> Schrader valves are commonly used on commercial aircraft for applications far

> exceeding the pressures we are talking about here, but they are these type:

> https://www.schraderinternational.com/Products/Product-Folder/NA-High-Pressure

> -Valves-and-Connectors?sc_lang=en-US-AP

> 

> My question is, what is wrong with the Russian type os fitting that comes

> fitted to the aircraft as standard?  I personally think the design is very

> clever and reliable.  I looked at getting some machined up a while ago and the

> price was very reasonable at $100 or so each.  As it happened, I was given

> one, but if enough people want one, I will get some made.

> 

> Chris

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452269#452269

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

_________________
Viperdoc

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:05 pm Post subject: Air charging valve?

Nobody was hurt. 

But the plane was almost a total loss.

Big holes in the wings in the neighborhood of the gear actuators and the

fuselage had many small holes at one side as if it was fired upon with a

machine gun.

The Yak 52 has been rebuilt by Termikas and is in perfect shape again.



Jan



On 26/01/16 05:34, "Roger Kemp" <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on

behalf of f16viperdoc(at)me.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



The pictures posted at the time were impressive. Do not remember did the

wayward soul survive?

Doc



Sent from my iPad



> On Jan 25, 2016, at 3:04 PM, Hans Oortman <pa3arw(at)ziggo.nl> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> I can confirm that! If I am not mistaken this is what happened a couple

>of

> years back in Belgium: on a ferry flight a Yak52 arrived on a small

>airfield

> in Belgium. After staying overnight and not having closed the main

>valve all

> air was lost from the system. Since there was nothing else available

>than a

> bottle with oxygen (for welding purposes) the pilot decided to fill the

> system with this pure oxygen.

> As soon as he hit the start button the whole plane exploded, that is all

> tubing, actuators the whole lot was blown up. Result: a big bang, a

>fully

> lost Yak52 and a bended ego....

> 

> Moral: never, never use pure oxygen!

> 

> Fly safe!

> 

> Hans O.

> PH-YAK

> 

> Op 25-01-16 21:08, Looigi <cdoburton(at)gmail.com> schreef:

> 

>> 

>> 

>> Pure oxygen under high pressure will spontaneously combust when

>>exposed to

>> grease and oils without any other source of ignition.

>> 

>> When we replenish aircraft oxygen systems at work (I am an Aircraft

>>Engineer)

>> we make sure we have clean hands, clean overalls and we use a

>>dedicated set of

>> clean tools that are only used on oxygen systems.  Seriously guys, yes

>>you are

>> sitting in a room full of it, but under high pressure oxygen is

>>lethal.  To

>> relate this back to the topic on hand, I will put it bluntly; ONLY

>>FILL YOUR

>> YAK AIR SYSTEM WITH OXYGEN IF YOU WANT TO DIE!!

>> 

>> Schrader valves are commonly used on commercial aircraft for

>>applications far

>> exceeding the pressures we are talking about here, but they are these

>>type:

>> 

>>https://www.schraderinternational.com/Products/Product-Folder/NA-High-Pr

>>essure

>> -Valves-and-Connectors?sc_lang=en-US-AP

>> 

>> My question is, what is wrong with the Russian type os fitting that

>>comes

>> fitted to the aircraft as standard?  I personally think the design is

>>very

>> clever and reliable.  I looked at getting some machined up a while ago

>>and the

>> price was very reasonable at $100 or so each.  As it happened, I was

>>given

>> one, but if enough people want one, I will get some made.

>> 

>> Chris

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Read this topic online here:

>> 

>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452269#452269

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:12 pm Post subject: Air charging valve?

Sometimes starting up does work with nitrogen. 

I’ve done it several times when we ran out of industrial-compressed air and scuba-bottles empty. 

Jan

From:  <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of John B <jbsoar(at)gmail.com (jbsoar(at)gmail.com)>

Reply-To:  "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>

Date:  Tuesday 26 January 2016 at 03:34

To:  "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>

Subject:  Re: Re: Air charging valve?



Air pressure inlet questions.



This thread is getting quite interesting, and I thank all of you for your contributions.  There are tens of thousands of hours of experience on this forum, and it is nice that this knowledge is being shared.

Most of twenty years ago, I got a ride in a CJ-6.  Of course, I squeezed the bicycle brake handle that was mounted on the control stick, and was rewarded with a whoosh of air, as the brakes cycled.  Interesting.  The engine was easy to start, and the airplane flew well.  I casually wondered why Western airplanes didn't use a similar air starting system. 

Most of five years ago, at the Casa Grande airport in Arizona, I spoke with a foreign pilot who was ferrying a Sukhoi.  He had stopped for fuel, and then ran the airplane out of air while trying to start it.  He was in luck, as, at the time, there was a scuba diving school in town that was open.  Somebody took him to the scuba store, and, after messing around with a scuba tank, he started the engine and departed.

During the two hour sit in the pilot's lounge, I learned that oxygen couldn't be used, as it created an explosive mixture, and I was told that nitrogen wouldn't work, as nitrogen would tend to discourage combustion.  

Now, after buying a Yak 55M, I'd like to operate the airplane safely, and in a reliable manner.  No Oxygen, for obvious reasons.  I did not know that Nitrogen could be used.  The Yak I bought has the original Russian quarter turn fitting behind the wing on the left side of the fuselage.  This past weekend, I looked at a CJ-6 that had a similar fitting, except that someone had modified it with the installation of a Schreader valve, presumably of the high-pressure type.  The owner had a scuba tank in his hangar with the brass thread-on Schreader valve attached via a hose.  This set-up might provide two advantages:  1.  If one gets stuck away from one's own scuba tank, they might get their airplane started via a borrowed Nitrogen bottle, which is common at most sizable airports.  2.  The original Russian fitting has a dust cap that is held on with a cable lanyard.  With a Schreader valve, one wouldn't have to use, and leave off, this cap.  Thus far, the original Russian set-up has been working fine.  

Folks, if my thinking is defective, please educate me.  I appreciate your feedback!

John B

Phoenix, AZ

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Looigi <cdoburton(at)gmail.com (cdoburton(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "Looigi" <cdoburton(at)gmail.com (cdoburton(at)gmail.com)>



 Pure oxygen under high pressure will spontaneously combust when exposed to grease and oils without any other source of ignition.



 When we replenish aircraft oxygen systems at work (I am an Aircraft Engineer) we make sure we have clean hands, clean overalls and we use a dedicated set of clean tools that are only used on oxygen systems.  Seriously guys, yes you are sitting in a room full of it, but under high pressure oxygen is lethal.  To relate this back to the topic on hand, I will put it bluntly; ONLY FILL YOUR YAK AIR SYSTEM WITH OXYGEN IF YOU WANT TO DIE!!



 Schrader valves are commonly used on commercial aircraft for applications far exceeding the pressures we are talking about here, but they are these type: https://www.schraderinternational.com/Products/Product-Folder/NA-High-Pressure-Valves-and-Connectors?sc_lang=en-US-AP



 My question is, what is wrong with the Russian type os fitting that comes fitted to the aircraft as standard?  I personally think the design is very clever and reliable.  I looked at getting some machined up a while ago and the price was very reasonable at $100 or so each.  As it happened, I was given one, but if enough people want one, I will get some made.



 Chris





 Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452269#452269



 ===========

 br> fts!)

 r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ===========

 List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

Looigi

Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 81
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Air charging valve?

I forgot to mention that the other disadvantage of a schrader valve is that you need spanners to operate it.  The quarter turn Russian one, you don't!



Chris

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Yak-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum