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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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 Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:37 pm Post subject: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator |
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Thanks again for your eloquent explanations.
However, I probably didn’t make myself clear about my idea.
In my system (switches working through the VP-X box), turning Off the MAIN Alternator field switch means interrupting a ground wire.
And turning On the Standby Alternator means connecting a ground wire.
(Switches in the Vertical Power system work by connecting or disconnecting ground to the assigned pins in their red box)
Therefore, what I need to design is simply an electrical way to accomplish the following action:
when I flip the Main ALT switch to Off (interrupting a ground wire), this same action automatically connects the ground wire that switches the STBY ALT field
Is there a simple and elegant solution to do this?
Cheers
Carlos
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: terça-feira, 2 de Fevereiro de 2016 17:13
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (was Difference between LR3C and SB1A regulators)
At 05:33 AM 2/1/2016, you wrote:
Well, scratching my head about this thread, I came up with a brilliant idea on how to manage a 2-alternator system.
(most probably there were hundreds of other people, before me, who had the same idea…)
Let me put it out to you, anyway
According to the second option I made in my last post (below), flying normally with the MAIN ALT field switch On, and the BackUp ALT field switch Off.
When the pilot is warned that no current is flowing from the MAIN ALT, he shall turn Off the MAIN ALT field and manually turn On the Backup ALT field.
How about designing a circuit that, when the pilot turns Off the MAIN ALT field, automatically the BackUp ALT field is turned On?
Ideas welcome!
That's pretty much what the LR3C/SB1 combination does . . .
but the 'magic' is in the monitoring and annunciation
system built into the SB1.
You COULD simply use two LR3C regulators in a Z-12
style installation. But if your ship's loads are less
than 20A, then the failure would not be noticed.
The core ideas behind the SB1 called for annunciation
of the failure combined with a simple means for
prompting the pilot to reduce loads to under 20A.
This protcol is consistent with design goals in TC
aircraft to not allow a failure to go un-announced
-AND- to provide crew with information for keeping
stand-by alternator within rated limits.
This was necessary to smooth the STC process for
putting a Z-12 like system on a TC aircraft. We
have more latitude in OBAM aircraft . . . the
owner can install current instrumentation on the
s/b alternator, then run two LR3C regulators, both
set for 14.2, and leave the s/b system OFF in
normal ops.
Lost of main alternator would be annunciated by
LOW VOLTS warning whereupon the pilot moves a
couple of switches and monitors instrumentation
to do a load reduction.
After 40+ years of working in FMEA and cockpit
protocols, I am reluctant to automate much of
anything. Adding automation increases parts count.
It must be applied carefully such that some
automatic function doesn't hide useful/critical
information from the pilot. Last, it needs to
add value. If you're cruising along 200 miles
out of destination and the low voltage light
comes on, you have plenty of time to accomplish
a prudent response . . . finish your cup of
coffee. Making a 3-seconds-or-less run through
the flipping of switches will not have any
appreciable benefit for reducing risk in the
outcome of your flight.
Hence, my long repeated advice of keep it simple
to minimize cost of ownership, weight and
cockpit complexities that call for any other
pilot, particularly the next owner, to acquire
new understanding.
Electro-whizzies on the panel are constantly
driving up risk of distraction from operation
of the airplane. It has been the well seasoned
goal of airframe designers not to drive up
system complexities any more than absolutely
necessary . . . vagaries in fuel system
operations on Barons buried more than
a few propellers in the dirt . . . I think it
was the Aerostar fuel system that made for
several bad days in the cockpit too.
Bob . . .
Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem vírus protegido pela Avast. www.avast.com
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edpav8r(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:14 pm Post subject: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator |
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Yes, a single-pole double-throw, ON-ON switch. Ground on the common tab, main alternator control to your VP-X on one side, standby on the other. This will, of course, offer no way to disable both alternators simultaneously, unless you use an ON-OFF-ON switch.
Eric
On Feb 2, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Thanks again for your eloquent explanations.
However, I probably didn’t make myself clear about my idea.
In my system (switches working through the VP-X box), turning Off the MAIN Alternator field switch means interrupting a ground wire.
And turning On the Standby Alternator means connecting a ground wire.
(Switches in the Vertical Power system work by connecting or disconnecting ground to the assigned pins in their red box)
Therefore, what I need to design is simply an electrical way to accomplish the following action:
when I flip the Main ALT switch to Off (interrupting a ground wire), this same action automatically connects the ground wire that switches the STBY ALT field
Is there a simple and elegant solution to do this?
Cheers
Carlos
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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:40 pm Post subject: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator |
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Eric
That is brilliantly simple!
Do you think this is a reliable solution?
And, in your opinion, should I have the possibility of turning OFF both alternators simultaneously?
CT
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Page
Sent: terça-feira, 2 de Fevereiro de 2016 23:13
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator
Yes, a single-pole double-throw, ON-ON switch. Ground on the common tab, main alternator control to your VP-X on one side, standby on the other. This will, of course, offer no way to disable both alternators simultaneously, unless you use an ON-OFF-ON switch.
Eric
On Feb 2, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Thanks again for your eloquent explanations.
However, I probably didn’t make myself clear about my idea.
In my system (switches working through the VP-X box), turning Off the MAIN Alternator field switch means interrupting a ground wire.
And turning On the Standby Alternator means connecting a ground wire.
(Switches in the Vertical Power system work by connecting or disconnecting ground to the assigned pins in their red box)
Therefore, what I need to design is simply an electrical way to accomplish the following action:
when I flip the Main ALT switch to Off (interrupting a ground wire), this same action automatically connects the ground wire that switches the STBY ALT field
Is there a simple and elegant solution to do this?
Cheers
Carlos |
Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem vĂrus protegido pela Avast. www.avast.com
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edpav8r(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:05 pm Post subject: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator |
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I suppose it will be as reliable as the quality of the switch and wiring you use. Buy a high quality switch like the B&C S700-1-3 (ON-ON) or S700-1-1 (ON-OFF-ON), use connectors and techniques as advised in the Connection book and it should last longer than all of us.
Since I've never designed an aircraft electrical system, much less built one, I'll leave it others to advise whether you should be able to turn both alternators off. Bob?
Eric
On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:39 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Eric
That is brilliantly simple!
Do you think this is a reliable solution?
And, in your opinion, should I have the possibility of turning OFF both alternators simultaneously?
CT
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Eric Page
Sent: terça-feira, 2 de Fevereiro de 2016 23:13
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator
Yes, a single-pole double-throw, ON-ON switch. Ground on the common tab, main alternator control to your VP-X on one side, standby on the other. This will, of course, offer no way to disable both alternators simultaneously, unless you use an ON-OFF-ON switch.
Eric
On Feb 2, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Thanks again for your eloquent explanations.
However, I probably didn’t make myself clear about my idea.
In my system (switches working through the VP-X box), turning Off the MAIN Alternator field switch means interrupting a ground wire.
And turning On the Standby Alternator means connecting a ground wire.
(Switches in the Vertical Power system work by connecting or disconnecting ground to the assigned pins in their red box)
Therefore, what I need to design is simply an electrical way to accomplish the following action:
when I flip the Main ALT switch to Off (interrupting a ground wire), this same action automatically connects the ground wire that switches the STBY ALT field
Is there a simple and elegant solution to do this?
Cheers
Carlos |
Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem vĂrus protegido pela Avast.
www.avast.com
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jbsoar(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:14 am Post subject: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator |
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If one has two alternators in their electrical system, it makes sense to have each alternator operated by a simple on-off switch. Operate it like this;  Leave alternator 1 on, until it fails, which will be immediately indicated by a low voltage light and confirmed with a low voltage indication. After it fails, turn it off, and then turn on alternator number 2. Separation of the alternators will prevent, or at least discourage, most cascading failures. This is a light airplane, and a complex, automated system with load shed capability is not necessary. In fact, it might not even be desirable. Remember that one must maintain and repair this system in the future... Will the next technician understand what has been created? How will any system diagnosis be done? Keep the alternator systems separate and these future concerns will be easier to deal with.
On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 7:51 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
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